Conservatives call for Ground Zero mosque protest

reply to post by Clisen33


hey man
I'm not trying to bash, only be a truth seeker
my apologies for being blunt.

reply to post by Foppezao


You just proved me entirely correct in my previous post with those remarks.

You are all being played for fools, and sadly not many seem to have the brains to realise it.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


As an outsider, I can kind of see both sides of this story.

I'm inclined to agree with you that this could be a gesture of peace, that the mosque is being put there to say, 'hey look, we were there too, we want to remind you of that. It's our mad inbred cousins who bomb things, not us.'
it was a small contingent of extremists, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows this.

The downside to this is, Americans take attacks on their people/homeland VERY personally, and an attack of 9/11's magnitude was bound to leave a bitter tongue for decades to come. If it'd had been Muslims, who hadn't mentioned religion once, it could've been a completely different story, most likely not viewed as racially motivated and seen as a country's opinion, rather than a religious one. The mosque is Islam's way of saying yes, we remember.

On the other hand, the counter argument would be that it was inevitable an act like this would be construed wrongly and viewed as another slap in the mouth rather than a goodwill gesture. A goodwill gesture often consists of a tribute of some sort to those there.. a religious temple isn't really a fitting tribute to a mass of many nations and creeds being killed in one attack. I would say it was just an honest dedication which has been viewed in the wrong way.. but the plans seem to be being pushed even with many against it.

Sorry for sitting on the fence.. it's laudible to give tribute, but if it's not going to be accepted, why force it through the letterbox you know?

Originally posted by Riposte

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I am very much in favor of this Mosque, I think it promotes religious equality and is a step FORWARD to moving on with this whole mess.

Yeah that's nice. The only problem is, less than 5% of the world thinks like you do, so building mosques all over the place to promote religious equality won't work.

Actually as there are over 1 Billion muslims and only about 6 or 7 billion people on the planet, that's a WHOLE lot more than 5%...

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by jfj123

 

Well obviously I am not saying that EVERY piece of new is decided, but you can bet your bucks the big stuff is certainly carefully worded and presented to make one side look good and the other bad.

There is no such thing as honest journalism anymore. Far too much censorship and favoratism in the media.

I agree perhaps I am taking it too far, but there's just too much media bias for it to be a coincidence as far as I am concerned.

And as for the media outlets, no, there are literally only a handful of independant news outlets.

The rest are all owned by, in one way or another by the big 4.

This is a good news story, although maye a bit biased about how the media is controlled, I don't agree with the "jewish" aspect, but it makes a hell of a lot of dot connections.

pakalert.wordpress.com...

~Keeper

I do agree there is almost no honest journalism anymore due to bias. As example, when there were impeachment hearings regarding bush/cheney, almost nobody heard about it because so much of the media is owned by conservatives.
Then of course there's obviously slanted journalism such as limbough, beck and hannity.
I don't think our opinions of the MSM are too far off actually

reply to post by jfj123


I don't think so either lol.

I do have to apologize somewhat for the source of that article though, I didn't realize how ridiculoust he rest of the website is..

Kind of an anti-semite propaganda website.

Although that particular article was quite good.

~Keeper

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
A civic centre for all nationalities and creeds would imo be far better. Lets face it only Muslims will use this centre which will do nothing towards social cohesion.

One of the best idea's I've heard so far

Originally posted by Foppezao
For the people who are ignoring the facts here, answer this..
Why do they call this the Córdoba house? named after the first mosque built by muslims in Spain as a triumph for victory over Spain?


[edit on 6-6-2010 by Foppezao]

Interesting, even worse the name does have history. Had to see what I could find.
summary:
lonestartimes.com...

My first question on hearing this a couple of weeks ago was whether Americans are completely ignorant of history.

Cordoba was, of course, the seat of the caliphate established in what is now modern Spain after the Islamic invasion from North Africa in the 8th century A.D. The medieval occupation of Spain – “al-Andalus” – is considered by Islamic theorists to have been an inevitable step in the manifest destiny of Islam, and its eventual reversal through the lengthy European “Reconquista” a tragic but temporary triumph of the infidels. The great mosque at Cordoba was built on the foundation of a Christian cathedral, and when Europeans retook Cordoba in the 13th century they turned the magnificent mosque back into a cathedral.

But there is also no question that the mosque at Cordoba represents a history of conquest and reconquest that, from the perspective of Islamists, is at an unfinished stage as of today. The caliphate of Cordoba was the geographic high point of Umayyad Muslim rule – that is, of the original caliphate that succeeded Mohammed – on European territory. It represents a glory that Islamists intend to restore. Its eventual loss to the Europeans represents, equally, an evil reversal, imposed by infidels, that requires redress.

“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West. It does not mean “coexistence,” unless coexistence is interpreted as referring to Islamic rule. Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs cites the article (original in Arabic) published by Iraqi-American Khudhayr Taher on 18 May, in which Taher explains the following: We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque…Choosing the name ‘Cordoba House’ for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…

It used to not even be a stretch for reasonably well educated Westerners to recognize the place of Spain and Cordoba in the history of the West and Islam. Many of today’s younger adults, however, have learned nothing about the Mediterranean before 1492 except that the Muslim period in Spain was a flowering of science, art, and culture. There was a great deal to admire in the accomplishments of the Muslim Cordobans, but they did, in fact, invade and conquer Spain, sell its inhabitants into slavery, provide a base for slaver raids into other parts of Europe, and rule by the sword in much of the caliphate.

“Cordoba” is not a name that evokes peaceful coexistence of Islam and the West.

A mosque at Ground Zero is something intelligent people can dispute honestly and in good faith. But honesty is essential, and it would be dishonest to dismiss the implications of proposing to name it Cordoba House.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by infolurker]

To me this is absolutely the Islamic community sticking their thumb in the eye of the American people. they know very well that it was Muslims that brought down the trade Towers and for them to want to put a mosque on that location to me is an absolute travesty to those that died there. Because of a radicalized form of Islam. I am sure there are plenty of places in the city of New York that they could build a huge mosque for the Muslim population of the city but why Ground Zero why now?I think that as the American people eventually hopefully we can forgive the Muslim faith for attacking this country and attacking the American people and killing so many of our loved ones but to me to basically spit on these people's grave by building this mosque on Ground Zero just seems like a huge thumb them in the eye ..... the people that died on 9/11 and the families left behind is totally without scruples of any kind. And these people are choosing to use this site for that purpose should be ashamed of themselves they are completely unaware that the 9/11 attackers were Muslim. And for them to build mosques on or near the rubble of Ground Zero to me is like planting a flag on territory you attacked saying this is mine we have won. And to me when it comes to the war on terror and Ground Zero that is a completely unacceptable situation.

What's wrong with building a Neo-Nazi headquarters at Auschwitz? Surely it would symbolise how we have "all moved on"?

Originally posted by Danbones

so American members of the community have voted 29 to 1 in favour of

But this is New York! The councillors will be Socialists, Liberals, and other people who in no way represent the American people. Many will be direct decadents of ethnic minorities, who feel they are more X country, than they are American.

The only time I'll agree with this Mosque is when the government admits its role in 9/11. Till then the symbolism makes it an insult. Till then the epicentre of the next terrorist attack is likely to be this Mosque, as some American decides they've had enough of being ruled by foreigners.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I think it's just fine. From what I read it's being build 2 blocks away from ground zero. Whoever owns the land can build anything they want too. It's a free country. Plus they have plans not only to build a mosque but also a convention center with sports complex which is going to be opened to everyone (all religious and non religious folk).

I don't see any problem in it neither do I have a say, I don't own the land. And that's fair choice should be left to the owner.

Originally posted by Clisen33
reply to post by Parallex

 

Then why were there so many Palestinians celebrating the attacks on the day of 9/11? I clearly remember seeing that, and it was disgusting. Go back to the last page where infolurker's linked 3 videos, it might refresh your memory.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Clisen33]

You may find that the video was old and not of 9/11 celebration. It has been posted on ATS long ago. I saw the proof here on ATS.

I don't want to see ANYTHING that has any sort of religion attached to it. Period.

What I want, though....will be drowned out in the detritus of everyone else's "voices"...

Seems that the antiquated, (used to be considered 'quaint', but no longer) concept of 'religion', and its differences, is what's responsible for THAT mess. (Not entirely, of course...there are political aspects).

But, in the over-all scheme, humanity is better off to grow up, and reject our childhood myths and fantasies. Some day, perhaps. I fear it won't happen, though, in my lifetime.

reply to post by infolurker


So if I read that correctly, the mosque being built in NYC is named "Cordoba House", and which it is linked to the Islamic manifest destiny of the west?

If this is true, does that mean they are the minority as well and doesn't constitute of all of Islam?

That Mosque is being built to cause the exact reaction we are seeing in this thread. It's not an attempt to unite. It's a transparent attempt to increase the divide. It appears they are getting the exact reaction they wanted. More division.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
I don't want to see ANYTHING that has any sort of religion attached to it. Period.

That would be the wisest move. To bad common sense is dead these days.

And again the conservative christians forget the constitution of the u.s and the principles upon which the u.s was founded.. Among them are.. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE and FREEDOM OF RELIGION not the narrow bigoted bloodthirsty mentality you use to further your own agenda of racism, greed and cold-blooded murder. As to those of you whining over the dead from 9/11 and spewing your venomous hate yet claiming to be christian your hypocrites.. In your bible christ teaches forgiveness or didnt you read that part ? I lost many friends during 4 tours in vietnam back in the 60s yet I didnt hate the vietnamese I respect them.. Unlike the uncaring ignorant u.s public who spit on me when I returned .. And the corrupt u.s government that I mistakenly served because at the time I foolishly believed the damn lies... Pull your heads out of your arses and stop believing the propaganda your fed.. To the OP well done on the post as always from what Ive seen of your posts and apologies to you for my rant at the sanctimonious hypocrits back in the states..

reply to post by infolurker


to Foppezao and infolurker for supplying the historical facts about what Cordoba really means...

I tried to point this out in a similar thread, but it seems that people our more concerned in general that it is a *mosque* being built without investigating the specific who, what, why, when, where, hows of this specific Cordoba mosque and its Imam.

If you investigate the Imam you will find that he has very radical roots as he was raised by the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt...

Off the topic of religion you will see that the Cordoba initiative has applied for, and/or is receiving grant monies from the Rockerfellers.

What is with you guys?

The mosque is just a place of worship. Your beef is with the extremists not the religion of Islam.

I mean it's not like they are planning to build a tribute to Osama sign there.

Unless that's what you think a mosque is.


This is ATS, seriously read the motto.

Originally posted by Gentill Abdulla
What is with you guys?

The mosque is just a place of worship. Your beef is with the extremists not the religion of Islam.

I mean it's not like they are planning to build a tribute to Osama sign there.

Unless that's what you think a mosque is.


This is ATS, seriously read the motto.

Read this post: www.abovetopsecret.com...

“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West. It does not mean “coexistence,” unless coexistence is interpreted as referring to Islamic rule. Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs cites the article (original in Arabic) published by Iraqi-American Khudhayr Taher on 18 May, in which Taher explains the following: We must note that a hostile and provocative name [Cordoba] has been chosen for this mosque…Choosing the name ‘Cordoba House’ for the mosque to be constructed in New York was not coincidental or random and innocent. It bears within it significance and dreams of expansion and invasion [into the territory] of the other, [while] striving to change his religion and to subjugate him…