Is the United States on the verge of civil war?

reply to post by Shark VA84


Nothing is impossible Shark boy !


MY plan .....................................

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

When the impossible

comes true ,

I'll Tell you more ...

I'd say it more likely would be a civil war, but all civil wars are Revolutionary Wars .. it just depends on who wins .. if the Nation wins, it was a civil war.. if a new power takes over, it was a Revolution .. that is the only difference. And I believe TPTB would win, sadly for sure, but they would, and it would be a civil war.

But either way.. there has not been a single rebellion, call to arms, not even a protest so no, I don't believe we are anywhere near the verge of a civil war. Most of the truly angry people are far right wingers (my self included) .. they are not united, easily manipulated, hijacked at every turn, and for the most part far to paranoid to meet up downtown for a protest anyways.

The country has a long way down a dark road before it gets to the point of such extremes. This countries people are not what they used to be.. we cowardly fatasses stuffing our faces content with yelling at the news anchor every night but failing to do anything productive or proactive. We are a weaker, more desperate people than any past generation .. truly a sad thing.

Another one of these threads, *sigh*
Well, I look back at American history & wonder if The American Revolution was started by ordinary folk banding together against what they perceived as tyranny. Nope, it was started by those with the means to put themselves at the top of the pile.
I look at the Civil War & wonder if farmers & steelworkers hated each other so much they demanded war. Nope, 1 bunch of rich people wanted the status quo, the other saw more advantage to themselves with a change.
I look to the 30s when ordinary folk had it much harder than today. Was there a revolution? Nope, there was prohibition & the Mafia to crack down on the Unions.
I look to the 60s, a time when there was a serious appetite for major change & when the most popular president for generations was murdered in the middle of a very unpopular war. Revolution? Nope, somehow Americans allowed the Unions, that were responsible for the fact that a blue collar worker could support a family in their own house, with a TV, fridge, 2 cars etc & send their kids to college on a single wage, to be marginalised.
I look at the USA today & see that a family with 2 incomes cant afford the standard of living of the 50s & early 60s; that times are getting tougher; that the USA is in unpopular wars; that the POTUS many looked to for change is not delivering enough or fast enough...
You know what I think? You put the same stuff in the same dish & bake it in the same oven, you'll get the same pie. There'll be no mass uprising in the USA, for a simple reason: no matter how much y'all distrust the government, y'all distrust each other more.

reply to post by whaaa


i dunno, but if you're gonna string anyone up you better be damned sure they deserve it first.

or you'll get a situation like the french revolution, where you got strung up just because you were born into a position or rich.

there might be some rich powerful people or just well off people, who would side with the people and would give up much of what they own to help others.

people should be careful not to target others just based on their wealth or position alone, without first ascertaining their true involvement or allegiance.

dont bring back the french civil war trials. that was horrific. and look what happened. isn't it nice to see how the wealth in france is shared equally, there are no bastards at the top and there's an end to poverty?

oh, no/??? that didnt' happen, after a so called 'people's revolution'??? that the french still pride themselves on??

NO IT DIDNT. there are still classes and divided wealth in france; the haves and the have nots; nothing has changed really.

robespierre and people like that rose to power from the revolution. bonaparte, who crowned himself emperor.

so a plan is pretty important; and not killing the wrong people; not judging a book by its cover too; is as well.

Y

Originally posted by rapunzel222
reply to post by whaaa

 

i dunno, but if you're gonna string anyone up you better be damned sure they deserve it first.

or you'll get a situation like the french revolution, where you got strung up just because you were born into a position or rich.

there might be some rich powerful people or just well off people, who would side with the people and would give up much of what they own to help others.

people should be careful not to target others just based on their wealth or position alone, without first ascertaining their true involvement or allegiance.

dont bring back the french civil war trials. that was horrific. and look what happened. isn't it nice to see how the wealth in france is shared equally, there are no bastards at the top and there's an end to poverty?

oh, no/??? that didnt' happen, after a so called 'people's revolution'??? that the french still pride themselves on??

NO IT DIDNT. there are still classes and divided wealth in france; the haves and the have nots; nothing has changed really.

robespierre and people like that rose to power from the revolution. bonaparte, who crowned himself emperor.

so a plan is pretty important; and not killing the wrong people; not judging a book by its cover too; is as well.

Nothing has changed? Really?

How bout free health care? Most paid vacation of any Democratic nation? Paid sick leave? Paid higher education? The biggest social welfare state in the industrialized world?

And yet...nothing has changed? Really.....um no France is much better off.
The government fears the people it is a much different situation. I have a friend fro France who loves it there, and he's in north Cali living thegood life.

reply to post by ISHAMAGI


the govt doesnt fear the people. you are wrong.

they might be a bit better off in that people aren't starving anymore. but if you're denying theres a gap between the rich and the poor, the haves and the have nots; then you're nuts.

the aristocracy has just been replaced by a different lot - by the owners of big corporations and banks. and these people also oppress the poor people.

and look at america. its revolution was based on france's. and now you're gonna tell me america's fine are you?

wake up.

and yes, i maintain. nothing has changed. now you just have the illusion of freedom and more food... for the time being anyway...[edit on 7-6-2010 by rapunzel222]

[edit on 7-6-2010 by rapunzel222]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I'd say it more likely would be a civil war, but all civil wars are Revolutionary Wars .. it just depends on who wins .. if the Nation wins, it was a civil war.. if a new power takes over, it was a Revolution ..

Had to star this! This is the best sentence in this whole thread! Very nice Rockpuck! thumbs up

Now for the topic... I do not think the US will suffer another secession war, if it does happen (I mean anything is possible right?), maybe triggered by martial law for some reason then it will be the army vs small pockets of resistance and not the likes of the 1800's civil war. The majority will accept martial law as "being protected" and they will obey. There will be small pockets of resistance but those will be known as terrorists and not "freedom fighters" and they'll have the public opinion (the average american) ideologically strongly against them.

No, there has not been enough economic pain to cause civil war yet.

However there is a great potential for it in the future.

State governments directly answer to the people they govern. So when tough economic times hit, there will be some states who flex there muscles at a weak federal government.

There is a possibility that some communities will decide that the federal government is to expensive to support and would rather pay taxes to the local government that they can control rather than send money thousands of miles away.

This threat is very real. I would suggest states initiate loose coalitions economically and create state banks to insulate from the economic decline of D.C.

reply to post by TaxpayersUnleashed


That is the problem. How many do we need running our lives? We have local governments(town, county), then we have state governments, and then the good old federal government. The big problem in all of this is, the federal government thinking they over ride the state and local governments. If this is the case, why do we have state and local governments? They all need our money for one reason, or another. Count how many things you have to pay for, outside of the area you live. If you live in Maine, why do you need to help pay for a bridge over a river in Oregon that you will never see, or use in your lifetime? Why not let them pay for their own things they want? They can`t afford it you say? Well, then why not wait to do these things when they can afford it in that area? That is the problem when you let your Reps. and Congress have control of the tax money. To much power given to the federal level allowing them to throw money to whoever, whenever and whatever they want, all without your ok. If it were me, I would start by taking these self imposed powers away from the feds., and giving the powers back to the state and local levels where they should be in the first place. The powers we have as the people, have been moved further and further away from us, to the point, we have no power anymore. Think about it, and tell me if I am wrong.



[edit on 7-6-2010 by FiatLux]

reply to post by FiatLux


Fiat, that is the continually battle between a strong Central Government with anemic States and strong State Governments with minimal Central authority.

A lot of this was stripped away when the 17th Amendment was ratified. Before that amendment, the States, specifically State Senators were those who cast their votes for US Senators. In the original intent, it placed the Senate at the whim of the States and its legislature, who were at the whim of the People.

The Senate was not to be a popular vote, but politicians used some foresight and understood that the more they make the States inept and dependant upon Washington, the more power they can grab.

One just has to examine pieces of legislation to see how the Central Government strong arms the States to its will. The Federal Highway Act is used to force States to adhere to Federal mandates in terms of legal drinking age and seatbelts. (They have fought for the helmet laws, but some States are holding out on that one as motorcycles are not the majority of motorist on the roads.) Those two laws are State laws, but if a State dares to change the drinking age to 18, the Federal Government will threaten to withhold highway funding.

As I stated early on in this thread, if anything were to happen in terms of a civil or revolutionary war, it would be akin to the Civil War in that States begin to break away from an ever corrupt and ever negligent Federal Government.

Then a movement to get rid of the 17th Amendment may be in order then, right? Yea, I know, like that will ever happen in our lifetime.



[edit on 7-6-2010 by FiatLux]

reply to post by AndrewJay


No need to worry, Look at the past. Our lives are infinitely better than the lives of humans for the past 10,000 years! The past 200 years in particular have been incredible and we are going to see more as we go forward.

Nothing can stop evolution. Nothing. It has it's own agenda and it will continue to force all living beings to continue improving. Does this mean your life is always going to be peaceful and quiet? No way! Change is painful. But don't be afraid. sit back and watch the show.

I would have to say no...
even though civil wars have started over less corruption thats for sure.
but all in all, we are just voting the bums out and let the polygraph tell us who to keep and who to get rid of... and VIOLA~! America...
but what most people wish for - isn't fun in the least - its like living in the 1800's, we have to go that far back just to go forward people... and its hard for them to comprehend that there easy job is going to go by by..
because without a artifical structure to base your life on, is suddenly gone we are not going to invent a couchie job for you - lose that weight and get to work.
welcome, no more looking for hand outs, no more safety nets, none of that crap.... you stand alone but most will need their families to survive start making plans to move home, not because of the economy but because there is work to be done and chores you need to be doing...

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Anti-Evil]

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


In the last civil war Martial Law was issued, but ironically only ever issued in the North (Kentucky and New York City)

If we look at American history, we see two types of rebellions/uprisings. First is the open rebellions, the rebels like Shays Rebellion. They were put down hard, by the military, and the public accepted it. I'd imagine if it happened in this day and age, they'd be called terrrist and we would all cheer their capture.

The other type is organized political secession. Martial Law can work against Militias and Guerrillas .. this is why it was used in the Border States during the Civil War, so that the Military could police suspicious activity and respond in kind.

Martial Law doesn't work against organized political rebellion.. because it's an ideological revolt that takes a much larger percentage of the population with them .. essentially it comes down to Open War or Guerrilla War. A revolution (violent) can only be won through Open Warfare, and thus, requires a strong present political and economical backing. The South was a solid Confederacy, government and economy already in place. We are no where near that stage in America, and I doubt we ever will be. The only rebellion I see in the US is fractional Guerrilla Warfare .. which would be put down before they ever garnered support, they would be made example of publicly.

reply to post by FiatLux


there is a legitimate reason for taxes however, The way the federal gov is operating is in morale Taxing one sending it overseas, or to another state to directly benefit another person who did not earn it is theft it is criminal.

90% of the federal agencies ARE ILLEGAL. Should not exist.
They are overstepping there authority and it will result in devastating pain.

There is going to be a clash. Lets hope liberty gets a second chance.

Originally posted by AndrewJay
Barack Obama has done nothing but lie to us the entire time he's been in office. He promised our troops would come home and sent more.

Not true. He very specifically and repeatedly during the campaign said he would begin drawing down troops in Iraq, which is happening apace and on schedule, and that he would expand the war in Afghanistan and bombings into Pakistan. That was a campaign promise of his, yes it was, go back and check the record. He is doing both of these things exactly has he promised. If you do not like the war in Afghanistan, that's fine and a fair point, but it is not fair to say he lied about what he would do there, because he's doing exactly what he always said he would do.

He promised he was against the patriot act and funded it.

Yes and no. His desired policies on the Patriot Act are currently stalled, but it was extended for a year. I think the jury is still out on that one.

He shows no sign of any emotion towards the oil spill or BP.

I think that's a matter of opinion. I would agree I would have liked to have heard more from him earlier on about this, but I don't feel that he's not emotionally involved - I think it's just he's not the type that gets too evocative with his emotions, something that is a problem for him in times like this, in terms of public perception. But, everyone's opinion on that will differ depending on one's prior perception of the guy.

Open Letter To The Newly Minted Revolutionaries.

What a bunch of crap. Where was all this revolution talk before the GOP got kicked out of power? You really think the government was "taken away from you" when Obama was elected? So, that was your government that screwed us with Iraq, Afghanistan and the Wall Street Banking meltdown? Nice work. Maybe we don't need to give you back "your government". Hell, you haven't proven that you know the first thing about how to take care of it.

Seriously. I remember screaming about the rah-rah idiots who were pushing us into invading Iraq, and having everyone - even my own brothers - calling me a traitor for not signing on to the financial blackhole that I knew was coming with it. Now I see fat, white people screaming for revolution because we finally have the beginnings of some control over these psychopathic corporate overlords in the banking and insurance industries. I don't get it. How the hell are any of you losing your freedom when AETNA is forced to make good on an insurance claim? Some of you people sound like children with Tourette's. Most American don't think you make any sense at all.

Where were the Tea baggers when Bush/Cheney were tapping everyone's phones and making US citizens disappear into Eastern Europe ex-KGB torture black holes?

Maybe if Bush was a black Democrat, they would've gotten off their fat, suburban asses and cared about what was being set up against us. Hell, it was the GOP that drained us of trillions through two wars that the never posted to the Federal Budget, set up the banking disaster, and de-regged us into this open season on the gulf coast that we're dealing with now. Oh, but this is Obama's Katrina. Are you kidding? Do you think anyone other than you even believes that?

Screw this crap. We need to fix the mess that the GOP and their cartoon Tea Bagger minions created. If your big-shot revolution gets in the way of cleaning this stupid mess up, then you best pack a lunch because we Progs have had it with you meatbags. You had your fun and now we're all paying for it. If you're not going to help, then at least have the decency to shut the hell up and get out of the way. The grown-ups have work to get to and your horsesh*t isn't appreciated.

reply to post by ATS_RL


Wow, seems your buddy knows a lot about what Satan thinks. Is it that he knows what he is thinking, or is he just using his own thoughts in this? Like the Indian story about computer games. Sounds more like a personal feeling on his part.

Is the United States on the verge of a civil war?

No, not yet, not even close.
There's still food, and water.
There's still video games and snacks and soft drinks and plenty of flouride.
There's still unemployment benefits and welfare and "some" jobs.
There's still affordable gasoline and beer and cigarettes.
But most importantly there's still not enough people united that care.
Civil war?, not impossible but currently improbable.
WHEN the money stops flowing and the purchasing power fades to black, and China cant sell anything here anymore because we dont have any money and we cant supply ourselves because we dont have the ability,
the snow will be deep across our nation, nothing will be moving,
nothing will be cooking, or warming and your civil war will be a payoff for a sick designed chaotic game of survival, and everyone will play in one way or another.


[edit on 7-6-2010 by HappilyEverAfter]