Is the United States on the verge of civil war?

Is the United States on the verge of a second civil war? Barack Obama has done nothing but lie to us the entire time he's been in office. He promised our troops would come home and sent more. He promised he was against the patriot act and funded it. He shows no sign of any emotion towards the oil spill or BP. It seems like the man is nothing more than a well groomed puppet, yet the people of America do nothing and still worship the ground he walks on. Why? It's just another Bush!

This country was founded on the principal that every man is born equal. Yet those born into wealth can and do have power over those elected into office. The simple fact is, aside from making a deal with the devil himself, nobody seems to get ahead in this country. Most of us cant even hope to retire by the age of 60 and you consider yourselves free men?

The unemployement rate went down this month ...but 80% of those people are census workers hired to invade my privacy. Sure the Census isnt so bad, it takes 5 minutes to complete, but when the man taking the servey demands entry into my home it becomes a problem. THESE ARE NOT LONG TERM JOBS AND SHOULDNT BE EVEN SHOWN IN THE PERCENTAGE!

The simple fact is people cant find work. People are being thrown out of their homes. The banks are running wild with our money, nickel and diming us to death AFTER we "bailed them out"! I quote that saying because the money was used to buy out smaller banks and basically destroy the whole idea behind capitalism. But whatever. What is it going to take for this country to wake up and stand up for itself?

I leave you now with a quote from Thomas Jefferson:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs"

This might be nothing new to some, but to others consider what you're reading and apply it to today. As our freedoms are slowly taken away from us on a daily basis, nobody wants to say or do anything. Other governments fear their people, we fear our government. We are no longer a republic and we know this by the puppets and crooks that have been in office since JFK was MURDERED (im sorry a single gun doesnt reload that quick in that day and age)!

While the rest of the country is being entertained, worked to death and well fed by their dancing with the stars, dollar menus, and the never ending fight against skin colour and religion, the rest of us know exactly whats going on. Put your hatred aside, be it race or religion, and see who the true enemy is. Theres a reason Ron Paul is nothing but a joke to the media. There is a reason why world news hits THIS very site before CNN!

Thank you for your time.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by AndrewJay]

Well I believe we are on the verge of a revolutionary war. A civil war suggests war between the people where-as a revolutionary war is the people vs. government.

Do I believe it's coming? Yes, I honestly do. Do I hope it happens? Loaded question but yes, I honestly do. Will it be within my lifetime? I sincerely hope so. The American people are fed up, and very angry. All it is going to take is that one spark, that one mistake, and it'll happen. The American people are not completely stupid (I sincerely hope that is true).

It's only a matter of time. I can honestly say, as an American, that I will die long before I sacrifice my liberty, my freedom, and my God-given rights. I am also not alone. The Government see's it coming. You can view all the evidence yourself and realize that. Like I said, it's only a matter of time.

When the Government is afraid of the people, that is true Democracy. When the people are afraid of their Government, that is pure Tyranny.

We are, as a country, becoming very Imperialist.

I hope the american people rise up and kick the zionist out of power and all those that are being bribed with zionist money.

We all made a mistake about 9/11 including myself and it took year of drip, drip for the truth to dawn on both myself and others so unless people keep telling themselves it's all a bad dream then they have a duty to do something about it.

obama like all the rest are just puppets and he's here just to put a smiling face on the $hit sandwich americans are being force to eat on a daily basis.

Does anyone know anyone who's wages have gone up during these peak years or was everyone releasing equity from property just to continue on with the life style.

God help the UK when interest rates rise and i think a lot more people at that stage will be taking to the streets adding to those that can not find any work because all the productive jobs have gone abroad and we are just left with non-jobs like traffic wardens and plastic pigs.

Just as 'The Theorist' said it would not be a Civil War but a Revolutionary War.

Do I want a revolutionary war? I can't really say. Most Americans would probably remain neutral just as in the first Revolution. The ones that side with the government will be the wealthy elite, the ones who side with the Patriots will be the working poor and diminishing middle class. The rest of us will sit on the sidelines.

But all I can say is that once a Revolutionary War begins you better know how to #ing end it or we will be in serious trouble. If you lose the government will know that they have ultimate control over us and they will probably suspend the constitution and the supreme court, allowing them to do whatever they want to us. It could become a humanitarian crisis. But if the Patriots win and they don't have a plan on what to do when they win we could see a very dangerous person rise to power through exploiting fear and exploitation.

Do you really think this government would peacefully leave in anyway? That's the serious problem here. They have become so established and comfirtable that you are talking about taking power away from a tyrant, do you in anyway think it will be peaceful?

The world would watch as the country with the least protests erupts into revolution. The world would be shocked. The global markets would probably plummet. It would have a global impact. Our troops would be stranded in foreign lands, our government would be mass murdering civilians under the guise of anarchy.

All i have to say is that for anyone who supports a Revolution, what is your end plan and what would you do if your revolution fails?

reply to post by Misoir


I can almost guarantee the Military would split down the middle with people on both sides. You raise valid concerns about there being a plan after all was said and done.

That's not something I would concern myself about. If said war does happen, then I guarantee there will be a few non-corrupt leaders who step forward who have insider knowledge. At least, I would sincerely hope.

The purpose would be to overthrow the corrupt politicians and instill fear into those who remain. They need to be made afraid of the people once more. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Originally posted by Misoir
Just as 'The Theorist' said it would not be a Civil War but a Revolutionary War.

Do I want a revolutionary war? I can't really say. Most Americans would probably remain neutral just as in the first Revolution. The ones that side with the government will be the wealthy elite, the ones who side with the Patriots will be the working poor and diminishing middle class. The rest of us will sit on the sidelines.

But all I can say is that once a Revolutionary War begins you better know how to #ing end it or we will be in serious trouble. If you lose the government will know that they have ultimate control over us and they will probably suspend the constitution and the supreme court, allowing them to do whatever they want to us. It could become a humanitarian crisis. But if the Patriots win and they don't have a plan on what to do when they win we could see a very dangerous person rise to power through exploiting fear and exploitation.

Do you really think this government would peacefully leave in anyway? That's the serious problem here. They have become so established and comfirtable that you are talking about taking power away from a tyrant, do you in anyway think it will be peaceful?

The world would watch as the country with the least protests erupts into revolution. The world would be shocked. The global markets would probably plummet. It would have a global impact. Our troops would be stranded in foreign lands, our government would be mass murdering civilians under the guise of anarchy.

All i have to say is that for anyone who supports a Revolution, what is your end plan and what would you do if your revolution fails?

I called it civil because you will always have people that side with the government but thats always been a two headed coin. The military, whom are our people, would obviously be fighting for the governement.

No I dont think they would leave peacefully. Infact, I wouldnt put it past them to destroy the entire country with a nucluar weapon if they had no other option but to lose power. Thats a huge problem that someone would eventually need to find a solution to.

"Our troops" would no longer be "our troops" and honestly with them stranded in other lands, it would be the perfect opportunity to start the revolution.

Obviously this is not something I'm suggesting, I'm simply starting a conversation that was ignited by frustration. Our government obviously doesnt give a # about us and we can see this in daily life.

The constitution has already gone out the window and with it the rules. All it needs is a spark, like the above post had said, and a plan. Some type of government would eventually have to be formed and yes that in itself is even more to worry about than a revolution itself. There obviously wouldnt be any room for failure. To do so is to doom the entire country at that point.

You also need to worry about foreign enemies while the country would be at war. I highly doubt someone like North Korea wouldnt jump at the chance to invade America during a revolution. Alot of if and buts need to be discussed before anything would ever take place. Allies need to be made on both sides.

reply to post by AndrewJay


You really think the government can rely on military men and women, average Americans to protect the government and fight and kill Americans? I doubt that!

They would have to bring in foreign troops because Americans would not tolerate killing their fellow Americans.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by AndrewJay

 

You really think the government can rely on military men and women, average Americans to protect the government and fight and kill Americans? I doubt that!

They would have to bring in foreign troops because Americans would not tolerate killing their fellow Americans.

All they have to do is call patriotism terrorism and BAM you brain wash good honest people into believing theyre fighting for the good side.

reply to post by AndrewJay


I differ with your opinion in regards to the Military for a few reasons. I know quite a few Military personnel who do not agree with our Government. I can even think of one or two Generals who feel the same way.

They took an oath to defend the American people from all enemies, foreign and domestic. If a Revolutionary war began, they would literally have to choose a side.

I believe our Military would split down the middle in all branches. And I believe the majority of the hard fighting would be done by and among them. However I believe that Civilians (such as myself) would also take up arms.

I believe our entire Government needs to be reformed from scratch. No political party should hold majority in Congress or Senate. It should be split into 3rd's. Equal numbers of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents.

I also believe that there should be a counsel instead of a President. And that each member should be elected BY the people, and not by other elected officials. The same can be said about the Supreme Court.

Furthermore, I believe there needs to be CIVILIAN oversight on all Government branches which answers to the PEOPLE only.

Although I can see both civil wars and revolutionary wars kicking off.. I can not see the establishment being stupid enough to put their own neck in a noose by allowing that situation to arise.... since this would be on a global scale, affecting most nations around the globe.

If the US markets crash, the global markets crash... North Korea starves, Iran can not sell it's oil, nor can China sell it's goods.. If America implodes all other nations will start to implode to one degree or other..

It's not as tho the rich bankers can move their wealth anywhere and be safe..

It is, IMHO.. in the best interests of the Leadership/Establishment/Elite/Bankers to have an external war, which they control rather than internal ones, they do not control.

Hence this is why I feel we will see a major global conflict prior to any next big market crash, or before any one nation starts to rebel in a serious way.. the global knock on effects causes the same issues, and places the establishments head on noose by their own populations.

In my humble opinion we are simply circling the drain, and the 2 choices that face the world's leaders right now.. internal or external conflict. Given how the first places their necks in a noose, I can only assume that we face the latter option.

I'm afraid that revolution, even if successful would only degenerate into power squabbles between the victors. Too much blood and money would be sacrificed to overcome this leviathan of a government.
I believe the only sane way to institute change is for a national strike to begin and not end until the people have what they need. We have the power but we must be united for it to ever work. Therein lies the crux of the difficulty.

reply to post by AndrewJay



If an armed conflict erupted in America; call it a civil war or revolution...

It would quickly degenerate into a race war against people of color, the infrastructure would shut down, food and services wouldn't be delivered, people would begin to starve and chaos and anarchy would prevail with armed gangs fighting for control of small pieces of territory. For there to be a real revolution there needs to be a system of control with leaders a strategy and goal. Who will lead? I don't see any leaders or anyone to shoulder the responsibility. Anarchy and blood in the streets with every man for himself. That's the way it will be! Sound like fun?

The social structure and culture is so different from the founding of this country; that looking to the past for direction and guidance is simply stupid.





Nothing is the way it seems on the surface. The corporate structure is the operating system in America. Politics and the government are strictly entertainment, giving various entities the illusion of control. The real power is so hidden and invisible that for all practical purposes; it doesn't even exist.



[edit on 6-6-2010 by whaaa]

reply to post by whaaa


While your theory is plausible, where is the logic that it would quickly degenerate into a race war as you have theorized?

As for your summation that we would see pockets of gang type territorial land grabs, I believe, would happen only in major cities were that activity practically already happens daily. Just now there would we lawlessness rampant and their tactics would become all out civil war between the various gang groups that infect our cities.

I don’t doubt some of your post, but this quick to race war thing is just silly that we would refocus into such as that. Small pockets of events may occur, but overall the main beam of the effort would be aimed at the government.

Interesting exercise nonetheless. We have the ability to peacefully bring about revolutionary type ideas; the sway of power overwhelms nearly all that make it to Washington.

As much as it may go against the grain, I am firm in my belief that we will never again dive into open conflict with one another, at least not utilizing the military.

The extent of another domestic "war" would be civilian unrest and riots, save for a few militant groups who would attempt to take up arms against the federal government. Any such uprising would be easily squashed given our current application of technology, transportation and weaponry, whether it be by military or law enforcement.

While we may seem "ripe" for such upheaval and revolutionary actions, the only true hope is one of peaceful change. Any armed conflict would do nothing more than to extend the reach and oversight of the federal government. Having served for quite a few years with more prestigious units than I ever imagined I would be involved with in the Army, I can tell you that from the ground up the last thing anyone wants is to take up arms against our own population, regardless of the wishes or intentions of our governing bodies.

I can tell you firmly that the command of our military is just as concerned about domestic unrest as anyone else, and a vast majority of upper-eschelon leadership would do everything imagineable to avoid being deployed domestically. If there is one beacon of hope in the leadership of this country, it lies in the leadership of our Marines, Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen. I am confident that even if we came to the most dire cirumstances as a nation, that our military leadership would be our (the people's) last line of defense, and would serve only the interests of the people before letting politicians turn brother against brother.

This subject is more commonly spoken about between grunts than many might think, and in my years of experience the general consensus is that if the jerkoffs on the hill ever gave an order that would jeopardize the safety of the general public as a whole, it would be dealt with accordingly, and in the interest of the people. As much as our politicians and "elected" officials seem to enjoy stomping and p#sing on the Constitution, the men and women who take an oath to uphold the Constitution and to serve the interests of the men and women of this nation take that vow very seriously.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy




I don’t doubt some of your post, but this quick to race war thing is just silly that we would refocus into such as that. Small pockets of events may occur, but overall the main beam of the effort would be aimed at the government.

You sound as if "the government" is some cohesive unit that can be identified, classified, isolated and controlled.

So who do we attack with our revolution? The forest service, the FAA, the VA, the Social Security offices; any employee of the feds? Can we attack the State offices and local court houses? They are government too.

How do we identify the people in government that we need to string up from the lamp posts?

I may be wrong but from the hate I see here on ATS directed at hispanics; and lets be honest; it's not just illegals. I see something very akin to the demonizing of the Jews in Nazi Germany developing in this country. A culture of hate and blame broadcast from AM radio in a steady, unrelenting stream. that will eventually manifest itself as an unimaginable evil in this country.

Remember what happened in Yugoslavia, not that long ago? Think it can't happen here?

staff.lib.msu.edu...





[edit on 6-6-2010 by whaaa]

You mean with shooting and rioting and actually getting out of their houses? No. Americans are too busy waiting for someone else to do it for them. Too lazy. Too apathetic. (Unless...wait...maybe all sides of this overdivided country can all hire Xe to do it for them. No, wait that costs too much...hmm.) Any attempt of this sort would be too small a group and would put down in a few minutes.

Plus no group large enough can come to any consensus against what they'd wage civil war over...too overdivided (by design by the way).

And actually, civil war by any traditional definition makes no sense anyway...the only way to achieve real change is to hit the moneyholders and decisionmakers and lawmakers (cough) where it matters, and there doesn't appear to be any way to actually do that without risking your job (if you still have one) and you credit score (which they have you by the balls over) so there won't be a lot of agreement there. Hell most people can't even not pay their taxes. It all falls on deaf ears and people are too married to the two-party system and its related mythology to ever change anything that way.

Nope. We shall all just sit here and let things continue to disintegrate around us.

Half of this was tongue-in-cheek. I'll let you decide which half.

Asktheanimals has it just right,

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
We have the power but we must be united for it to ever work. Therein lies the crux of the difficulty.

Watching events unfold for decades it is apparent that the government, educational system, media and power elite have been complicit in suppressing "we the people"

The people which includes all known so-called factions have been purposely deprived of the knowledge to believe in the constitution as written, IMHO a concerted effort has been underway for better than 100 years to undermine the belief in and practice of rights as enumerated via the courts, media, educational and governmental policy.

As long as the "elite" can keep people dumbed down and factionalized into "groups" such as liberal, conservative, socialist, anarchist, pro/con whatever, white, black, hispanic, any racial, religious or political label etc. they will remain in power.

I believe the current government in place is just a provocation by the elite to draw out radicalized members of the various factions out into the daylight so they may be easily used to discredit any movement afoot by "we the people" - divide and conquer.

Anyone with two braincells can see whats going on except for being continually bombarded by family, friends, neighbors, associates, media, courts, educators and government to get back into "acceptable modes of thinking" which is why I see such confusion by most when in conversation facts are brought forth not agreeing with mass media propaganda.

With the above in mind I am not hopeful that "all" of us will band together at the same time needed to throw off the yoke that is upon us.

Rather, you may see something called conservatives or anarchists provoked into civil or revolutionary action so that they can be dealt with on a controlled basis.

In other words a crisis will occur which will allow further draconian erosion of our rights in the name of safety, peace or some other benign sounding reason that allows the public to go back to sleep feeling secure that their reality will continue uninterrupted for a while longer no matter how many fellow citizens end up dead, imprisoned or missing. Fact is it'll just be those "crazy people" affected. All the government has to do is keep a majority of factions satisfied at any given time to pull this off - as it becomes the other despised groups problem, not mine.

I can see groups being demonised, others being lionized as well as some being ignored for the moment, it appears as pieces being moved about on a chessboard, if you consider yourself a member of a faction or group in favor or not consider deeply how you are being used to keep the yoke upon us by the mere fact of remaining factionalized and disrespectful of others with differing beliefs.

Until "WE" fix our programming to be a "group" member then it will not be possible to come together as "Americans" and make this wrong a right.

A major change in mindset must occur before the road becomes open.

Phoenix

The U.S. is in a constant state of war with words, and differences in ideologies. This has always been and will always be.

To state "Barack Obama has done nothing but lie to us", is in fact, a lie.

reply to post by whaaa


In your previous statement you stated that there would be a need for organization, in this you are dead on correct. Without such, you also questioned me correctly again; who is the fight brought to? This is the inconvenient portion that people tend to ignore because it requires some thought and foresight into such an action.

Being so, the only viable option for such a revolution to occur would have to be more civil war, in which States secede, form pacts and treaties and move on Washington. More than likely there would be an expulsion of all Federal agents from within their States. This would require a major shift in the American way of life; one that would require such a huge catalyst, that it will never come to fruition.

Given such, your claim that there is a growing anger towards Hispanics I can only speak of my sphere of influence in that regards. I personally see anger towards those that circumvent and take advantage of the graces of immigration. I have witnessed multiple Border States to say it ranges differently in different places. The immigrants (all that is, Mexican, Vietnamese, etc.) in California have no desire to assimilate into the public culture and demand that their culture be favored and given special status. Public street signs in portions of California are in different languages because of such fear of looking bigoted.

Now when I examine a small town in New Mexico that I lived in for a number of years, the immigrants there were different. They assimilated into the local culture and the larger culture as a whole. They strived to learn to live within their situation and did not demand the public to learn to live the life that they left behind.

So in the end what you see as a growing anger towards Hispanics might be within your sphere, yet you claim a wide spread holding of such anger. Alas, this is woefully off the topic of the OP, so at that I leave it.

Is the United States on the verge of civil war?

No.

Seriously, most Americans are too fat to get up and do anything about the rhetoric they agree with on the moving picture box