The times, they are a-changing -- The stressful days on ATS.

Originally posted by win 52
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

Understand why you do what you do, even though you want to do something else, is the main key to the solution, it seems.

But do we really want to do something else? I think if we really wanted, we would.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hello my friend. I can't help but see this as yet another part of the master plan. To divide us all into ever more virulent ideological groups so we are so distracted by our own bickering that we don't mind as our money, freedom of choice, and free will are chipped away at.

To Mr. Overlord:
Republicans, Democrats, Muslim, Mormon, Christian, illegal immigrant, or citizen none of it should matter for we are all human in this great world. Even in the words of The Constitution for the United States of America, all men are endowed with certain inalienable rights; among them are the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. All men. Not just the USofA.

I feel that is what all we honest hard-working people seek: happiness. If we could all just step back, and try our best to help our fellow man achieve it this world would be a better place.

It becomes increasingly difficult as an individual to be or achieve happiness in a world that has been carefully sculpted by TPTB to force us into the status quo of the proletariat. We need to work together, we need to unite as a species and help us all achieve happiness, rather than leave it up to our masters to tell us what happiness is.

Most of the world are honest hard-working people who are just trying to make a living for themselves and their family. Why does it have to be so hard? Why does life have to be so difficult? It doesn't. Its only hard because people make it hard. That way we're all so busy running in circles we don't have the time nor the energy to question the removal of our liberties, the ever growing power and wealth of those who dont deserve it, and the shortening of our lifespan. While statistics and facts say that we as a race continue to enjoy longer lives, our lives are ever more sacrificed to our masters. We get second jobs and work longer hours while our masters enjoy the luxuriant lifestyles they have denied us by slapping a luxurious price tag on it. They enjoy squeezing the fruits of our labor from our pockets while they spend it in ways we only dream of.

So I more than understand where the frustration comes from. I just hope other people can begin to understand as well.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


While I agree with you on some accounts, I want to look at how a society might adapt over time, and some serious dangers over the next year. Given the moment were in, my view of what is happening may be a bit different, at least odd. There is a consistent thread that runs through most historical civilizations. There is a sense that "some" ill defined, mercurial stability in society is breaking down. Once predictable, well ordered events and people are not as predictable. Institutions and individuals can not be counted on. Even the weather is getting worse. This is one of the most consistent cultural historical threads. In the west we have the legend of Atlantis, and other Earthly paradise's from our distant past. Why are they so appealing? We like to think at least once we achieved high technology, a cultured society, with liberty and justice for all, or something like that. If we did it once we can do it again. And to tell you the truth I think there is a high likelihood there were some ancient civilizations that did more then we know, or even something we can't do as well today. Levitate pyramid blocks? Well, I really doubt it. But there may have been some cultures once that was able to develop and enhance-focus the mind. It interests me because we KNOW SO LITTLE about so much of the past. We use technology to enhance our strength and computers our brain power. But I believe if we can imagine it, we can do it. In time we'll have telepathic ability, not in the distant future, but thanks of course to machines. It might freak us out like radio first did, but we'll get over it... Technology has a tendency to work our magic, but its often expensive, and noisy.

I look at societies as basically three types. The simplest is the most adaptable to changes in a small family group or tribe, and good adaptability to the environment and has what I call a high adaptive dynamic. I think the only "job description" would have applied to the group, not one person. They had to eat, protect themselves, care for the children, try not to freeze, and avoid other groups who may not like them. I think anyone with an idea could take the floor. Assuming no one was an individual (ridiculous of course), this could be the purist form of socialism. This society is the least "institutionalized", and the least phased when s*** happens. Whats most important is a high dynamic also means greater creativity in the mind. You don't have a written language, when you start to "do cave art". I think they would start with pictographs. Bison means food, hand trace means me, rat means Fred (some anthropologist help me out here). Memory was a life and death discipline before writing. You needed it for EVERYTHING, perhaps individual and group identity most importantly. Creativity was the root of all skills as well as identity. "Progress" would start with abstract thought. Humans haven't, IMO changed that much. Our ability to deal with change is now more regimented, institutionalized, predictable and hence less dynamic. The advantage is major social systems and structures are remarkably stable over years. We go into debt, we get fat, we use the net, I worry if I'm trying to be to funny for my own good. To the guy in cave number one, he would think of them not as luxury's, but insanity incarnate. Maximum reasonable flexibility also means minimum long term stability. One things for sure. They had no word for "trivial", and no one was ever board.

The second type I'll call a low dynamic, homeostatic-emphasis society. In this category I put the long duration ancient culture's, around before total collapse at least 500 years. First like all civilizations including all ours today with the possible exception of traditional isolated cultures, they all had one fatal flaw: They all thought they were immortal. Sorry. Be it ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome. The UK is interesting in no longer a traditional empire, remains tremendously strong because many of it's institutions are identified with stability. It also has many of the more dynamic features we only see in democratic (one way or the other) traditions. And while the UK can not adapt as quickly as a more dynamic society, the balance of stability and adaptability maintains both economic and political order. The US is in this category, but does have more economic clout, and is the only major super power. Thats the kind of strange investment that only pays off if you never use it.

The world is now manifesting what I call a third type of society. If industrial was mass production, and post industrial is information, multiple nations along with corporations and institutions are becoming transnational. This is where the primary organized structure of human society will no longer be nation-states, but objective driven associations that have no physical boundaries. One reason is it makes huge economic sense. You can't move a city or country on a map, but you can move almost anything else. Most of all ideas and money. Sure we all will still need a place to live, a ship will need a dock and an aircraft at least for the next 15 to 20 years will need an airport. A lot of things just won't appear to change, except how you think about them. Thats the key to a lot thats happening and IMO will happen. What will change will be our perspective.

In a more dynamic society change is the norm. In a more institutionalized society, stability is more prized. I'll call this one a society based on dynamic awareness. Think of it as evolution not that were at the mercy of, but can direct. Very little at first. The nature of the beast will have training wheels in case we have to much fun playing with the nature of things that never before existed. As little or as much as were comfortable with, in time. Institutions may not be in the same building or in time operate the same way they do now, but the concept of money won't go away. Not because how I currently think of it and how it's expressed as a power arbiture makes all that much sense. If you think it does try reading the tax code, talk about Byzantine. Just don't blame me if you go blind.

One major impact I think will be how we look at the basic formula for solving problems. Like it or not we will still be tied to different parts of the industrial and economic hardware for a long time. At least in the physical sense. The political systems and of course our long term crazy uncle the MIC, will do nothing but follow this prediction to the letter: They will resist any actions that they think, rightly or not erodes their power and economic base. For the time being, we have to work with finite resources, some version of the current monetary system, transportation systems that are degrading, but an improving communications and distributed processing network largely driven by software improvements, or should I say modifications. Wide spread quantum computing, and molecular based computers and machines are coming, their just not here for most of us. Only major advances in technology will move the process a lot faster. The area I'm really exited about is when computers can follow our lead and think abstractly. We'll know they can because they'll give us something to ponder. When we start questioning our own points of view, it's likely to be spooky but like any near death experience its also likely to leave one hell of an impression. The old ways and answers are not robust and adaptable enough. North Korea is one giant starving gulag, many might welcome a war. Terrorists know big noisy attacks bring hammer blows. Not knowing were being attacked is a real danger, and likely more dangerous. We couldn't be doing worse with the environment if we tried (IMO). A cascade failure of a major ecosystem is very possible, IMO. Thats when death moves in a wave and wont stop until theres nothing left to kill.




[edit on 2/6/10 by arbiture]

I couldn't agree more, however I see one other little trend that is somewhat related to the topic. I rarely post on here but I lurk/read every day and have since late 2005 before I joined.

What I have seen is a rash of illiterates.

Please allow me to explain because I do not mean this in the harmful sense of the word. I have seen numerous viewpoints discussed constantly again and again in threads that have already reached a conclusion/answer 7 pages prior. I know it is human nature to want to jump in and give your opinion, but as people have said in this very thread, you need to have FACTS behind your argument. Otherwise the discussion turns into something bordering on ad hominem attacks (and bordering on T&C violations).

So, along with what SO is asking of everyone, please ... read the whole thread before responding. That includes links provided within.

You might just clear up some of this mess as well as get some worthwhile content out of a lurker like me once in awhile.

EDIT: kiddie grammar

[edit on 6/2/2010 by Fiverz]

We have many different people on here from many different realities. Even those who think that the facts will bring everyone together on a common ground are mistaken because everyone has their own level of connection to the physical world. I believe there is a push on through history to get humanity into thinking materialism is all of reality, and as kooky and whacked out as some people on here get, it's refreshing to see some non-non-conformistry.

What we're communicating isn't even in the words.........that is why we can't take this as seriously as, say, reality.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Are collective angst is pretty stark when we (me) try to solve the worlds problems in a morning. I'd rather get in the way of someone who can do some serious work then do nothing. I never did nothing well. At least a bunch of guys in my company know they can drop in from time to time on this site. I actually encourage it because (A: I do, and if I say they can't that would make me a jerk. (B: IMO I believe it aids creativity. No kidding. I have no studies, but do trust my instincts. People won't be able to tie anyone in with my city, most of the time most are in other states, and a few countries. Our problems are great, but our ambition has always been greater, as has our chutzpa. Or at least mine. At least everyone is incredibly capable, and they like me, really hate to loose. There calculating. I'm the hysterical one. We make a good team.

Appreciated OP and thanks!

I "see" the access to info as both a blessing and a curse these days: we can access and process info so quickly these days that I sense some may not undestand or think about the meaning prior to posting or speaking in day to day life.
It's all about the "gotta' be FIRST to get the scoop!" and honestly,is most of it even worth stressing about?
We crave facts yet shy from solutions and answers...it's more about the drama than the resolutions.

I still still people raising familes with firm traditions and values, still see small business owners striving and achieving,and still believe that when people stop talking and listing to each other IS when the "real failures" will begin.Communication is everything here and in the "real wolrd.Combined with respect for experience and a good dose of humor and you have something to carry you through...

I don't expect the world to slow down any time soon and yes, it's a mess I never expected at this stage of my life but have decided that each person needs to keep trying to decide what and create that which makes them "happy" as a member and hopefully,continue to share with others and and encourage the positive that is contagious in us all!

Originally posted by WXBackdoor
There should be a different websites for politics , like AbovePolitics.com or something , i am kind of tired stumble upon thread with titles such as :Illegal Immigrant are destroying america" , or "Obama is a socialist evil Hitler spawn".

Please Overlord , consider crating a whole new site for politics only , AboveTopSecret will be a better place.

I want to read about ETs , and Ghosts , etc (Not about politics)

[edit on 2-6-2010 by WXBackdoor]

Now thats a great idea!

When it comes to the owner of BP, illogical tea baggers(lol), Glenn Beck, the president of Iran, and Kim Jong Ill...how can you not post something hateful? Those individuals are all scum!

But that's just my opinion of course

I posted a thread in March to cheer people up as i saw so much stress and negativity on ATS.

ATS Stress Relief Thread - Funny, Uplifting, Inspiring


It's so easy to get lost in the alarming news that gets pumped out daily, especially right now with the situations revolving around Israels recent actions and the massive oil leak in the gulf.

I just wrote a long and detailed post which disappeared when I went to another site for a reference. I will not rewrite the whole thing, but briefly summarize my points:

My main point is that I think that the United States, and much of the rest of the world, is moving rapidly toward fascism, such as prevailed in Europe in the 1930's. I raised the question of whether world history suggests periodic and cyclic movements toward totalitarianism or if it is strictly a 20th and 21st century phenomenon.

One example I gave of increasing fascism was the enormous prison population in the United States, which is one of, if not the largest, per capita in the world. We lock up a huge number of our people. Two of the reasons I pointed out were the imprisonment of many thousands for relatively minor drug offenses, and also the incarceration of the mentally ill and alcoholics and other addicts. Thirty years ago the mentally ill were housed in state mental hospitals and other institutions which, though they weren't ideal, provided food, clothing, shelter, medical treatment and the opportunity to interact in a community. Today there is a movement toward "de-institutionalizing" the mentally ill and "returning them to the community" which on the surface sounds like a wonderful concept but in practice amounts to throwing them out on the streets where they do not survive and often forget to take, or do not have access to, their medication. Most of the long-term state facilities for this population have closed. Addicts and the mentally ill are not given treatment in prison, so when they are released they usually re-offend because they cannot survive on the streets and end up back in prison. After three times they're in for life, under our "three strikes" laws

I want to emphasize that I do NOT see President Obama as any kind of fascist or totalitarian leader. Hitler mustaches at Tea Party rallies notwithstanding, Obama is closer to being a socialist than a fascist (and yes, there is a difference!) and he's not even very close to being a socialist. Health Care Reform, although I don't like it in its present form, is no more fascistic than Social Security or Medicare -- that is, not at all. The President is charismatic and does inspire enthusiasm among many of his voters, but nothing like the fanaticism and blind obedience that Hitler inspired among the German people.

I do see a discontent and a demand for change, especially among my students and other young people, but it seems to me they are seeking change of a more progressive type, not a regression to fascism. They remind me more of the rebellious baby boomers of the 1960's. For better or worse, the boomers changed the American landscape permanently.

In short I see a restlessness and discontent everywhere, sometimes it is a movement toward advancement, sometimes a regression back toward fascism. They are competing forces.

As the ancient Chinese proverb says, we "live in interesting times."




[edit on 3-6-2010 by Sestias]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Greetings Bill!
Very well laided out and written like the true gentalman you are!! As an older member I hear you loud and clear!
And rarely do I reply to such threads.. But I felt this thread was very much worthy of a reply from me and other oldschool members!

There is a time and place for all things.. A time to vent, and a time to get the many topics off our chest.. While still sticking to the rules, and honoring the pledge we made as members of this ever growing site!

I for one have been lurking in the shadows of ATS/BTS as of lately! But with all the things going on.. I find myself grabbing a candle and putting some light to these subjects! You told me a couple years back in a U2, about ATS members being points of lights! And the more candles we can light, the more light will be shed upon the world in which we live!

Very level headed advice, from a person I consider a friend!!!

While we may not be like real life friends, or even know eachother, I consider this place to be an extension of my family!!!

I treat this place, as I would treat my own family!
I guess thats why I am still around huh?

Well thanks for the great post!!! And take it from an older member! Posts and threads like these are important!!!

Tyson aka Zysin5

www.youtube.com...



Take me away from time and season
Far, far away we'll sing with reason
Prepare our throne of stars above me
As the world once known will leave me

Take me away upon a plateau
Far, far away from fears and shadow
Strengthen my heart in times of sorrow
Light the way to bright tomorrows

Answer our call in desperate hours
Shelter our fall from earthly powers
Temper our souls with flame and furnace
Bear us toward a noble purpose

Heaven hides nothing in its measure
Mortal men blinded by false treasure
Formless and vanquished we shall travel
Shield and sword will guide our battle

Take me away from time and season
Far, far away we'll sing with reason
Prepare a throne of stars above me
As the world once known will leave me

reply to post by WXBackdoor


You know when it gets to stuff like "Obama is Qaddafi's son"! (Qaddafi really did call Obama that at the UN, I think he meant it as a compliment ), your right on. Maybe an "Everyone who hates Obama" thread would please some, (no doubt). I also have a very strong interest with as much observation based details on aliens, with special interest with what their driving, as possible.
But in many ways you can't separate politics from so many posts/threads, and few scream it as loud in the rumor mill regarding politics, when it involves UFO's and their friends. Of all subjects I think there is no subject as joined at the hip as politics is on the subject of UFO's. But unless I'm visited by the ghost of Jackie Gleason who tells me; "I was so shocked when I saw them, I forgot how really bad I was at golf" I'll try to leave it alone.

[edit on 2/6/10 by arbiture]

reply to post by GorehoundLarry

When it comes to the owner of BP, illogical tea baggers(lol), Glenn Beck, the president of Iran, and Kim Jong Ill...how can you not post something hateful? Those individuals are all scum!

Hate breeds more hate, we are all searching, some have come farther then others along the path, all need understanding and compassionate hearts to guide them, none of us have all the answers. It is a mature individually that will listen and accept wise council, for we all fall short.

Absolute truth is illusive.


[edit on 023030p://bWednesday2010 by Stormdancer777]

The only way to achieve happiness is to put an end to all forms of domination, either from visible or invisible realms of reality.
The phenomena of "beliefs" is partly to blame as well. Humans have a tendency to believe for they are unable (most of them) to know on their own the answers to the questions they ask themselves.
We are indeed experiencing the beginning of very hard times on planet Earth. But these experiences are necessary for the process of awakening, which will lead humanity to a new era of peace and freedom.

reply to post by lagenese

We are indeed experiencing the beginning of very hard times on planet Earth. But these experiences are necessary for the process of awakening, which will lead humanity to a new era of peace and freedom.

I wish I had your optimism, but since time immemorial it has been like this, by now with history as our guide, one would think we would have a clue.

But what I see is us going backwards.

another thread with indirect Israel propaganda .... LOL

sorry but I could do a relation between this and whatever propaganda you want


but talking about real stuff now, I just think it is unfair to say religion is not a problem, so I dont agree with your statement that people blaming on it is bad, people I suppose are just getting smarter and waking up ...

reply to post by lagenese


nobody knows if any of this will lead to some peaceful time ... I really believe we will evolve as a civilization, but it will be an evolution so slow, that we will probably die in the process

as Michio Kaku said, we are in the process of getting to civ lvl1 in terms of universal civilization base and the internet is the first aspect of our civilization that belongs to lvl1

the problem is that a lot of people want to destroy the internet, so, its hard ...

lets just hope we can make it to this transition

[edit on 2-6-2010 by Faiol]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Any change of civilization requires great shocks. Just look at what happened to the people of Atlantis, the Sumerians, etc...
To reach higher states of consciousness, the ego needs to be shaken quite a bit. To me, all of world events at the moment are required and we haven't seen the last of it. And the good news is that, in a not so distant future, all forms of manipulation will start to disappear. We, as humans, are manipulated to such an extent, that if anyone would know instantly the extent of the manipulation, without preparation in life, this person would go totally insane and lose his spirit.

Originally posted by lagenese
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Any change of civilization requires great shocks. Just look at what happened to the people of Atlantis, the Sumerians, etc...
To reach higher states of consciousness, the ego needs to be shaken quite a bit. To me, all of world events at the moment are required and we haven't seen the last of it. And the good news is that, in a not so distant future, all forms of manipulation will start to disappear. We, as humans, are manipulated to such an extent, that if anyone would know instantly the extent of the manipulation, without preparation in life, this person would go totally insane and lose his spirit.

OH I understand about the manipulation, I agree with ever word you are saying, even the Bible speak of the strong delusion that overtakes mankind mind in the last days,

Earth shattering events are escalating, all things point to some sort of major change, but when I read post on the internet, not just this site, and look at the hatred man has for his fellow man I can't help but think we are going quite madd,

I think sometimes I make some valid points, backed up with research and acceptable sources of information, I do all the research, and yet people call me a fool.

Sometimes I wonder if the whole world is losing it grasp with reality.

But then another poster will say I have lost my grasp with reality and I am scum.