Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by Mobius1974
reply to post by PplVSNWO

 

You cant just sneak "defencless" in there and get away with it(They were not defencless) .. CHRIST.. this thread is frustrating.. All the anti jews... have no argument.. so you dig for facts that dont exist or are made up.. All the jews and pro israel people on here spout off crap about being at war..
I believe this
Blockade - Legal
Boarding ship in internation waters - legal
If you agree that the blockade is legal... then with 100% fact base proof, boarding that ship was legal.
I dont know if I agree with the blockade... but a good time to argue the legitimacy of it, WOULD HAVE BEEN BEFORE TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH IT. Its that simple. That boat was trying to cause this chaos.. The organizers are seeking attention for a cause and didn't care if they were killed.. That is a fact!!!
Take down the blockade.. let them build up... Let them arm themselves..
Then when they attack Israel..(They will with 100% certainty) Wipe the earth of these muslims that refuse to live with other religions in peace.
The only way the planet will accept this Israel ... is if you take down the blockade and wait for the inevitable attack. Then you can say "I told you so". Until then the planet will condem you. I hope in the next few days.. all of these muslim mouth pieces all get together and attack Israel.. Iran/Syria/Lebanon and Turkey all at once.. Then, like the oportunists they are..Hamas might grow a set and attack also.. Being attacked on 5 fronts?? Nobody will blame you when you completely eliviate this planet of the fanatic muslims.. Psst..Israel.. I dont like you much.. I am hoping you piss of america before this happens... Then we can light your holier than thou butt up. Everyone in that region is psychotic. Pull out our troops from Afg. and Iraq.. Let them fight it out..
Its all hogwash.. Nobody will ever agree..I have lost hope for the region.
I feel bad for the palestinians... But I also know of the thousands of rockets and kidnapings. Your all acting like a bunch of kids. Get along or get it on. We have an oil spill that could take out the planet.... and our news is covered with this crap.
I hope that Israel is attacked soon. Not that I think they will lose..
I think Israel can take everyone in that region all at once. with no help from US.

The major problem with yer statement is that attacking ANYONE in international waters IS illegal....Also a majority of the UNSC (Everyone but the US), the international community at large, and everyone else around the world HAS condemned the blockade LONG before the ship even set sail for it....

As for the people willing to die, yes....they are, because they are brave people who will sacrifice their lives when they see injustice in our world. We'll see what happens in the weeks and months to come but we might just have a repeat of the 6 day war.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
If you imagine simple questions as Red Herrings...

Yes, they are red-herrings because they do not address anything I have actually written. Neither the questions or answers add anything of substance to the debate. No answer would be sufficient. The debate would then change, by your design, to the supposed evils of my beliefs or positions, positions I might not necessarily hold but exist only in your mind. These are questions not meant to be answered; they are accusations. These are not the hallmarks of someone interested in having a mature, sincere discussion but someone more interested in maligning and slandering any who may disagree.

You have not considered anything I have actually written nor produced a cogent counter-argument why I am wrong. Instead, you launch an emotion-filled tired, laden with logical fallacies, mostly appeals-to-spite, based not on what I have said, but on a caricature of what you think people who disagree with you believe. It is a rationalization, so you may dismiss any who disagree with you without having to put actual thought into their arguments. You have not told me why my positions may be wrong, you have only described the evils of the positions you assume for me.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So once again I ask you what kind of POLICE STATE you want to LIVE IN, where SOLDIERS regulate us all, including preventing us from being charitable towards one another.

Red-herring argument and irrelevant. I never said or implied a support of any sort of police state. And even if I did (which I do not), my philosophical beliefs about government do not change the facts.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You might want to check personally with Propaganda Minister Goebbels before speaking so poorly on your own again.

Another red-herring ad hominem, this time a reductio ad Hitlerum ad hominem. Because I do not necessarily agree with you, because I do not see this in the same stark black-and-white terms you do, because I have a more nuanced position than you, thinking this incident has a murky legality, that the passengers aboard the MV Mavi Marmara should not have resorted to violence, that they share some of the blame, or subscribe to an automatic assumption of Israeli malfeasance or innocence on the part of the passengers, you accuse me of being a fascist and a Nazi. That is a complete and total non-sequitur. It is an exercise of your prejudices; it is more about your beliefs about the world and those who disagree with you and not anything I've actually said.

This illustrates a very interesting hypocrisy that has arisen in this thread. We hear repeated that criticism of Israeli policy does not equate to anti-Semitism. And I would agree. However, some of these anti-Israeli posters (for lack of a better term, no slur intended) are all too willing to accuse anyone who disagrees with them as beings fascists, Nazis or otherwise approving of genocide. Interesting dichotomy, don't you think?

Perhaps I should start applying the some non-sequitur red-herring ad hominems to you, Protoplasm. Or, we can go back to discussing the facts. Your choice.


[edit on 4-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


So in other words you are incapable of answering intelligent questions put to you?

In reality every bit of false Israeli Propaganda posted to this thread has been debunked, and discredited, and you have yet to contribute anything of any merrit to the thread.

Mean while you are still unable to describe why it is you wish to live in a POLICE state where everyone is ruled over by SOLDIERS who regulate everything through violence and force of arms, including the disbursement of Charity.

Nor have you explained why the rational human beings of the earth capable of answering intelligent questions who don't need to deflect away from them, would want to live in a POLICE STATE controlled by SOLDIERS who REGULATAE EVERYTHING, and will shoot you in the head and point blank range and execute people with out trials or due process.

Which is once again all your argument boils down to, that people should be happy to live in a Police State where Soldiers have the power to execute citizens engaged in the act of helping one another.

At the base root that is what your argument actually is.

The only person incapable of seeing that is you.

Which is why because you have no valid argument you simply choose to attempt to abuse the plaintiff.

So once again, while you might feel the need to serve cruel, violent, murderous and oppresive Masters, I am my own Master, and as such see this situation for what it is. A Police State using Soldiers to kill people who have a higher standard of morality than the State espouses or will tolerate.

It's very simple, and there is no legitimate reason why you can not answer those very simple questions other than you know that I am right, and as such you have no way to answer them without having to first admit to yourself you are wrong.

Little men, the world is full of them, such a pity.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


And you have proven my point. Even though I did answer your question, the answer was insufficient. You still want to still play those games. You still have not addressed anything I've said, just thrown ad hominem accusations that have no bearing on the conversation.

You are an anti-Semite. Why is it you want to see Jews killed? How much Jewish blood must be spilled to satisfy your bloodlust? Do you deny the Holocaust too? Don't bother answering, because your answers will be insufficient and just lies. You are an Anti-Semite who wants to murder Jews, pure and simple. No amount of denying it will change it. Don't bother lying. Admit it, Protoplasm. In fact, any denial will just be proof of how much of a raging anti-Semite you are.

Wow, this game is simple. Why listen to anything anyone has to say when you can just dismiss them?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Little men, the world is full of them, such a pity.

Take a look in the mirror, anti-Semite.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Ah the good old Anti-Semite card, too bad my REAL Jewish friends would not only not agree with you, but would laugh at you for being so pathetically ignorant about who and what I am.

No you have made no attempt to answer my simple questions with straight forward honest simple answers.

You have tried to misportray the nature of my questions, you have tried to misportray me, and you have done so for the purpose of deflecting away from simple questions that you seem incapable of answering.

By the way it is Friday it is the Jewish Sabbath good Jews, real Jews are not plying the Internet on the Sabbath, they are walking to Temple, and not using electricity or appliances as to not offend their God on this day.

So lets not pretend I am the anti-Semite, because if you are Jewish you are behaving in an anti-Semitcal way by offending your Lord on his Sabbath.

So now that we know you are really just a Zionist which is a political control cult that revolves around a police state that promotes the absolute right of the state against the citizen through armed force deployed by soldiers, and detains people without trial and due process, indefinately, and murders people without trials and due process, all of which has nothing to do with the Judean religion, why don't you try answering my simple questions, with simple straight to the point answers.

Why do you want to live in a POLICE STATE regulated by armed SOLDIERS who execute people for attempting to be charitible towards others.

Why do you imagine decent human beings want to live in such a Police State and to be policed by Soldiers who will execute them for being charitible.

By the way you are attempting to make the good and real Jews of the world look bad by promoting murder and a police state in their name, and frankly you can't get any more anti-semitic than that!





[edit on 4/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Ah the good old Anti-Semite card, too bad my REAL Jewish friends would not only not agree with you, but would laugh at you for being so pathetically ignorant about who and what I am.

Oh the old, "I have Jewish friends" lie to cover your anti-Semitism. You can't hide behind it. Your denial makes your anti-Semitism obvious.

And you are obviously too stupid to understand the point of that exercise. And let's just point out here, for the sake of posterity, you were the one who began throwing accusations of Nazism.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
No you have made no attempt to answer my simple questions with straight forward honest simple answers.

And neither have you. Again, why do you hate Jews? Simple question.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You have tried to misportray the nature of my questions, you have tried to misportray me, and you have done so for the purpose of deflecting away from simple questions that you seem incapable of answering.

Just as you have tried to purposefully tried to distort my positions, just as you tried to malign and slander me. For the simple act of disagreeing with you, you resorted to disgusting accusations.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
By the way it is Friday it is the Jewish Sabbath good Jews, real Jews are not plying the Internet on the Sabbath, they are walking to Temple, and not using electricity or appliances as to not offend their God on this day.

Oh, so you determine who is a good Jew and a bad Jew? That sounds very anti-Semitic to me. Even if I was Jewish (atheist, by the by) it would be patently offensive that you think you could dictate to me whether I am a "good" or "bad" follower of my faith.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So now that we know you are really just a Zionist...

I was doing a tongue-in-cheek exercise to illustrate a point, turning back your ridiculous and hypocritical accusations back on you. But you actually stumbled into proving you are an anti-Semite. Your rant is nothing but what has been said about Jews for centuries, you simply replaced Jews with Zionism.

Why do you think Jews should not be allowed self-determination?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Why do you want to live in a POLICE STATE regulated by armed SOLDIERS who execute people for attempting to be charitible towards others.

Why do you imagine decent human beings want to live in such a Police State and to be policed by Soldiers who will execute them for being charitible.

Why do you think anyone who disagrees with you would believe such things? Why do you think people who disagree with you are Nazis and fascists?

[edit on 4-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Take a look in the mirror, anti-Semite.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Too late, I saw what you wrote before you edited it out, I am one of Proto's Jewish friends, he not only cares about Jews but has deep caring and compassion for them, that includes all people, I know that is true or I wouldn't give him the time day. Proto is someone who goes out of his way to find out about people, their backgrounds and problems they may be facing and gives any help that is needed if he can, he looks at all people as one.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Oh there is no doubt that there are many similiarities between Nazi Germany and Zionist Israel.

They are all well documented. Zionists are not Jews though, nor are most Jews semitic peoples so the whole contention is absurd.

It only makes you look more frightened of answering my questions by playing the Anti-Semite Card.

No you haven't answered my questions as to why you want to live in a Police State where Soldiers execute people for being kind and charitible to the suffering.

No you haven't answered why other kind and decent human beings would want to live in a Police State controlled by Soldiers who will execute them for being kind and charitible.

All you have done is show your intense dislike of anyone who doesn't condone Police States and Soldiers executing people for being kind and charitible while deflecting from the very simple questions put to you.

Originally posted by Aquarius1

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Take a look in the mirror, anti-Semite.

[edit on 4-6-2010 by DoomsdayRex]

Too late, I saw what you wrote before you edited it out, I am one of Proto's Jewish friends, he not only cares about Jews but has deep caring and compassion for them, that includes all people, I know that is true or I wouldn't give him the time day. Proto is someone who goes out of his way to find out about people, their backgrounds and problems they may be facing and gives any help that is needed if he can, he looks at all people as one.

You are one of my very best friends too, and in reality I see you, always, first and foremost, and everyone else too, as a human being, who you worship or how, your sexuality or sex, your social status, or education are not things I would ever pass judgement on.

In fact I don't judge people, just actions and institutions.

I appreciate you speaking up for me, and I would be questioning the actions of Israel in regards to this incident no matter what nation it was that carried out such an illegal attack against civilians on the high seas in International Waters, even more so when they are humanitarian aide workers on the way to help those truly in desperate need.

In fact you can't get any more dispicable than that as a nation.

Yet that is not a reflection on the Jews of the World, as they don't get to have a say in these things, only a handful of corrupt far right Zionist politicians do.

I know most spiritual Jews in fact have either condemned these crimes by Israel in International waters or stayed silent rather than have to say something bad.

That is not particuarly sinister either such silence as some people do adhere to if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Israel is a State, and there are International Standards and Laws that apply to ALL STATES, and Israel has violated those.

It does not matter if Israel is populated by Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Taoists, Pagans, Athiests, Agnostics or Space Aliens, it has violated a number of international laws that resulted in the death of humanitarian aide workers. There is no excuse for that.

Hiding behind a religion as a means of deflection is an afront to that religion.

Good Jews, Good Christians, Good Muslims, Good Hindus, Good Pagans would never do that.

Thanks for posting my friend.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
...lie to cover your anti-Semitism. ...anti-Semitism.......you are obviously too stupid...why do you hate Jews? ...you tried to malign and slander me....bad Jew...sounds very anti-Semitic to me...you are an anti-Semite... Jews ...Jews...Zionism....Jews...Nazis and fascists...

Good grief man, look at what you're really saying here.

reply to post by kickass


I think the picture was taken in turkey, the day before the ship was stopped, there are some other pictures with the same people in .Looking for the link.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
You are making an argument based on pure emotion, not facts, engaging in logical fallacy after logical fallacy, red-herring after red-herring. Having cast the situation in the most black-and-white of terms, you are making assumptions about what I've written without applying any actual thought to it.
[edit on 4/6/10 by DoomsdayRex]

Yeah, great isn't it?

Some people can't seem to grasp that it's OK to understand (or even sympathize) with a certain situation, while at the same time not actually agreeing with it. Life isn't black and white.....you can't just take the moral high ground and assume that automatically makes you right.

reply to post by Curio


Life is only as convoluted as confusing as hypocrites and self serving tyrants and despots make it.

Things really are very simple, you either live by the same rules you apply to others or you don’t. In the case of the Israeli Government it does not live by the same rules it wants to apply to others, and yes, when people insist on doing that, life gets very convoluted and messy too, as thieves, murderers, liars, and sycophants make one lie after another and one excuse after another to try to justify their thievery, murder and blatant hypocrisies.

Where Dooms Day Rex is failing in his arguments is speaking to the simple facts that people try so hard to obscure and twist is not an emotional exercise, it is an intellectual exercise, so those who view it as an emotional one, would be feeling an emotion known as guilt, for failing to be honest about the very simple base issues of right and wrong involved.

Israel is a nation built entirely on stolen land. In fact many nations are built entirely on stolen land. The difference between Israel and other nations that are built entirely on stolen land, is the other nations after acquiring the territory they wanted made compensation and concessions towards the displaced people who had not been killed off or run into exile and then guaranteed their future autonomy.

So the only reason based on History why Israel has not done the same, is because it has not finished acquiring the territory it wants, and is still waging a campaign of genocide and intimidation to depopulate the lands it still wishes to steal.

It’s very simple, and that’s all based on intellectual assessment of the actual history and actions.

In fact Israel is so intent on stealing that remaining territory it is prepared to murder humanitarian aide workers who wish to help and alleviate the suffering of the people it is waging genocide against.

The only emotions involved are the guilt involved on the behalf of people who would defend and promote such a thing, when they are faced with an intellectual able to see through the dogmas and propagandas at the actual driving events.

So when posters start talking about why someone would ask an honest straight forward and simple question, only to ascertain if such people actually understand what it is they are espousing and promoting, and then they try to abuse the person asking those questions, and deflect away from those questions, and try answering those questions with a question, then yes you know that the guilt is there and the anger of being asked to account for promoting the most reprehensible, repugnant and murderous of ideas.

Those accurate descriptions of Israeli actions have nothing to do with emotion, it has to do with accurately describing the actions of a rogue, pariah nation that does not abide by the same laws it wishes to impose on others.

It’s very simple and all the pretend atheists in the world who want to pretend they have no agenda in promoting a police state bent on genocide that will murder humanitarian aide workers on the high seas, are just pretending, and are not credible individuals.

Things are as simple as people allow them to be, or as complicated as they wish to make them, but those complications are always, and forever born of hypocrisies, dual standards, lies and a self serving agenda that can only be fulfilled at the expense of others.

Things become as simple as they really are, in everyone’s eyes, when all the wrong people, for all the wrong reasons stop trying to make them so complex!

reply to post by muse7


then everytime an isreali woman who goes shopping or a child on thier way to school gets killed by an hamas rocket, we should declare it a wr against innocet people and go in with nato forces and blast hamas, who have sent over a thousand missle in to isreal so far this year. you are just a racist and belong on glp.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

In fact Israel is so intent on stealing that remaining territory it is prepared to murder humanitarian aide workers who wish to help and alleviate the suffering of the people it is waging genocide against.

Israel lets aid through all the time,

If they were so intent on killing all the aid workers why did they stop at ten?

Why didn't they kill the people on all the ships?



[edit on 083030p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 083030p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by lonelyjoe
reply to post by muse7

 

then everytime an isreali woman who goes shopping or a child on thier way to school gets killed by an hamas rocket, we should declare it a wr against innocet people and go in with nato forces and blast hamas, who have sent over a thousand missle in to isreal so far this year. you are just a racist and belong on glp.

Declare war to Hamas, not to all Palestinians and the rest of the world. Stop confusing a for b. Humanitarian aid workers didn't kill anyone.

Put one Hams among 100 Palestinians, Israel kills them all. That is criminal and unforgivable.

Proto is right. They just want more land and they go for genocide. Any excuse, and they've run out of them, will do for such tunnel minds.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Things become as simple as they really are, in everyone’s eyes, when all the wrong people, for all the wrong reasons stop trying to make them so complex!

Seriously?

Things are complex, look at your Rome topic.

reply to post by DangerDeath

Proto is right. They just want more land and they go for genocide. Any excuse, and they've run out of them, will do for such tunnel minds.

So what are they waiting for they could have wiped out Palestine a long time ago but they haven't.

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Israel all time intent on killing all the aid workers.

Kill people on all the ships.

I've just let your message pass through my "aid filter"

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Israel all time intent on killing all the aid workers.

Kill people on all the ships.

I've just let your message pass through my "aid filter"

What?