Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

Originally posted by gambon

Hold on you claim to know it all about the event ....but it has taken you this long to realise a soldier was thrown overboard......it is in the first video on this thread ...and also the idf film you claim to have studies..........very strange you didnt know this before.....

I've seen that video a good few times yes. It cheers me up, i'm not ashamed to say it either.

Nice try though. Next.

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


At the end of this article:

Meanwhile, Haaretz reports that Colonel Itzik Turgeman, a senior Israel Defense Forces officer, speaking before the Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, hinted that the IDF had sabotaged the engines of all the ships in the Freedom Flotilla other than the Mavi Marmara, saying that “they took care of them.”

warincontext.org...

They can do that too. Afraid the ships will scram over night

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by mr-lizard
By all accounts this whole thing took place over an hour, and the armed rebellion was one of the final stages.

It took over an hour and we have no footage of this? All we have of an hour-long incident is just snippets of footage, nothing to support these claims? Very interesting.

Who is paying you to lie, Mr-Lizard?

Nobody. I'm not lying. I have already politely u2u'd you to NOT bring the arguements to this board. Don't insult my intelligence.

I have been on this thread for 90+ pages on and off, and have witnesssed dozens of videos and posted lots of links.

Honestly, i am genuinely determined to find the truth in all of this, no matter what you say. Please keep on topic and discuss the issues here and NOT attack each other.

Thankyou.

Who the hekll are you to ask people not to post to this board...tyou mr lizard are a fraud you have brought nothing new to this thread imo, you keep repeating rhetoric , that when asked to present ...evidence of pre assault etc you cannot do it , you were asked over a hundred pages ago ...still nothing ...tbh those you accuse of pro idf bias , on;ly appear to be asking very valid questions of the whole event , an earler poster is right ....there" has" to be shooting before the troops landed to excuse the violence unleashed when they landed...which was shown on tv

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Not that simple.
Lets review, which Ships attempted to break the blockade?

Did the Flotilla try to brake the blockade, or did the Israeli Ships try to break the blockade?

Who ever tried to break the blockade is logically and tactically henceforth known as the: AGRESSOR!

Agression is a provocative act, that triggers something called a RESPONSE.

So lets try to follow along in the real world of common sense not Israeli sense and I know this might be a stretch for you.

Did the Flotilla try to break the Israeli blockade? Yes

Did the Israelis defended their blockade? Yes.

Did the Israelis try to break the aid fleet blockade? No

Did the aid fleet defended their blockade - NO.

So in reality we can see using something called common sense that the flotilla was the agressor.

See how that works, one side picks on and molests another side instead of minding their own business.

That makes them an agressor.

When the side that was minding their own bussiness responds to an act of agression, this makes them a defender.

Yer mistaken when Israel has not declared itself as an "occupying force". Therefore it's an ILLEGAL blockade. You can't have it both ways....you can't have a blockade and NOT be an occupying force....The UN tried to brand Israel with that title and Israel WOULD NOT accept it...Therefore...the blockade is illegal.

Oh and I also think it's HILARIOUS that you say the side who's "minding their own business". Can you please explain how starving over a million people, and blockading an entire port is "minding their own business?" Hell can you even explain why Israel occupies parts of the West Bank and Gaza still? No you can't....because you CAN'T justify the way these dou*hes can just kill innocent woman and children, unless you agree with their hatred of Palestinians I mean....

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]

reply to post by ElijahWan


zionists are good planners. most likely they had their own men act out the scenes on the video. there no actual close ups? are there? throw 1 or 2 of their own overboard and fish them out off camera.

Originally posted by orangutang
reply to post by ElijahWan

 

zionists are good planners. most likely they had their own men act out the scenes on the video. there no actual close ups? are there? throw 1 or 2 of their own overboard and fish them out off camera.

Who knows man, all I know is I DO NOT trust the IDF to give me evidence on this incident NOR do I trust the US allowing Israel to conduct the investigation.

Originally posted by gambon


Who the hekll are you to ask people not to post to this board...tyou mr lizard are a fraud you have brought nothing new to this thread imo, you keep repeating rhetoric , that when asked to present ...evidence of pre assault etc you cannot do it , you were asked over a hundred pages ago ...still nothing ...tbh those you accuse of pro idf bias , on;ly appear to be asking very valid questions of the whole event , an earler poster is right ....there" has" to be shooting before the troops landed to excuse the violence unleashed when they landed...which was shown on tv

Erm... I'm agreeing with you. Why are you giving me hassle? I've been here a while and have provided plenty of stuff. Mainly between pages 50-90 i think.

I mentioned the captain getting injured after calling for the crew to stop attacking.

I mentioned the idea that certain people were picked out by Israeli squads.

You seem to be confusing with someone who is disagreeing with you. I agree that something must have happened to the crew to get so angry that they would fight back.

This is also an interesting article! Hell! Is this the TimeWaveZero event

The overcrowded passenger ship carried Jewish refugees fleeing from war-decimated Europe who hoped to become settlers in Palestine — then under British control — but the British were intent on blocking their entry.

In international waters off Palestine the British Royal Navy intercepted the Exodus and British troops attempted to board.

Several hours of fighting followed, with the ship’s passengers spraying fuel oil and throwing smoke bombs, life rafts and whatever else came to hand, down on the British sailors trying to board, The Times reported at the time. Soon the British opened fire. Two immigrants and a crewman on the Exodus were killed; scores more were wounded, many seriously. The ship was towed to Haifa, and from there its passengers were deported, first to France and eventually to Germany, where they were placed in camps near Lübeck.

I'll be damned. Turks were certainly aware of this. Something big in the making.




Edit, link warincontext.org...





[edit on 1-6-2010 by DangerDeath]

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Scared you are going to be exposed as a paid-disinformation agent, Mr. Lizard? Who is paying you to lie?

YOU are. I thought we'd agreed that YOU were to be the horrible one and i was the good guy. Why have you gone public?

I QUIT. I expect my holiday pay and bonus too on the amount we settled on.


--

(Above may be a lie).

Hahaha it is funny though nice one made me laugh

I think we all just want the truth ,, and some of the more fancifull tales just have not been prooved ..they may be , it is still early days , but in the words of Dragnet .."please, just the facts maam"

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reply to post by ElijahWan


Again, i do not understand those fine lines in legality claim - i know that everyone pushes in his direction, however i am not sure that US declared itself occupying force during Cuban missile crisys blockade, for example.
But this whole post was just to show that attacking and defending side depends on point of view.

US Navy Veterans Continue to Seek Justice for Israeli Attack Tuesday 01 June 2010

The Israeli military has attacked a flotilla of international peace activists, killing as many as 19 innocent civilians while they were carrying ten tons of aid to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza. This is not the first time the Israeli military has attacked a nonthreatening entity in international waters. On June 8, 1967, while sailing in international waters, the US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was attacked by air and naval forces of the state of Israel. Of the Liberty's crew of 294, more than half were killed or wounded. More than 40 years later, survivors are still seeking justice. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that the Liberty was an American ship, yet survivors have been forbidden to tell their story under oath to the American public. Joe Meadors was on the Liberty during the attack. "I watched some jets pass us then turn left after they passed our ship, then they started strafing attacking repeatedly with bombs or machine-gun fire from low-flying aircraft us," Meadors told Truthout. "The attack lasted 90 minutes, during which we got a message off to the 6th fleet asking for assistance, and we learned later, Joe Tully, commanding officer of the USS Saratoga, launched aircraft within minutes of the attack, but he told us later they were recalled before they reached the horizon. We found this out 20 years after the attack."

www.truthout.org...

Don't mind me, just stopping in to add this article that appeared today. Lest we forget what we are dealing with.

Some People here need to keep in mind that almost every country on the planet have Publicly condemned Israel's actions.

Any defence of Israel on this case is a lost cause.

If you're not going to accept this then how can we move forward ?

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by gambon


Who the hekll are you to ask people not to post to this board...tyou mr lizard are a fraud you have brought nothing new to this thread imo, you keep repeating rhetoric , that when asked to present ...evidence of pre assault etc you cannot do it , you were asked over a hundred pages ago ...still nothing ...tbh those you accuse of pro idf bias , on;ly appear to be asking very valid questions of the whole event , an earler poster is right ....there" has" to be shooting before the troops landed to excuse the violence unleashed when they landed...which was shown on tv

Erm... I'm agreeing with you. Why are you giving me hassle? I've been here a while and have provided plenty of stuff. Mainly between pages 50-90 i think.

I mentioned the captain getting injured after calling for the crew to stop attacking.

I mentioned the idea that certain people were picked out by Israeli squads.

You seem to be confusing with someone who is disagreeing with you. I agree that something must have happened to the crew to get so angry that they would fight back.

OK lol, just that sometimes you seem to be veering off from proovable facts to speculation, and also lauching personal attacks on some folk , who imo are just asking for facts also , and are far from a pro israel voicebox....

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Not that simple.
Lets review, which Ships attempted to break the blockade?

Actually it is that simple because a blockade is a passive act of agression all in and of itself.

So once again lets review shall we.

Was the Flotilla blockading another nation than their own? No

Was Israel ilegally blockading another nation than their own? Yes!

A Blockade is an act of war that either requires a declaration of War on the nation being blockaded or a declaration of occupation by a nation, then blockading the nation the nation that they are occupying.

Both of course would also be acts of agression.

The defenders in a blockade would in fact be the people being blockaded!

See how that works?

The Agressors in a blockade would be the blockaders!

See how that works?

Anyone attempting to relieve the beseiged defenders would be deemed either: Relievers or Liberators by those being blockaded, and would be referred to as smugglers or blockade runners by the Agressors who imposed the blockade...

However, to apply a distinction such as smuggler or blockade runner the blockade must be conducted within the Geneva Conventions, International Laws of War, and Maritime Laws.

Otherwise it is an illegal blockade which is even more agressive!

Now lets talk turkey, I like butterballs the best but some people like Luis Rich while others like Purdue!

Do you have Turkeys in Israel, you must because you sure are trying to sell one!

Lets talk frank, Hebrew National hot dogs are made of Pork?

Come on, Jews don't eat Pork! But they sure love being weiners on occassion!

But the truth is my friend, Israel is conducting the illegal blockade as part of an overall propaganda effort where it tries to cast itself as not being an agressor and an impedement to peace.

If it formalizes the blockade through a declaration of war, and occupation then it can't sell that propaganda because it is such a turkey no wiener on earth would try to sell it.

So Israel pretends it wants peace, while in fact committing what is an act of war, a blockade of another nation.

So the reality is though weiners might try to sell turkeys this dog won't hunt.

Israel is the agressor, and in the wrong, and in violation of several international laws no matter how you window dress it, or how you attempt to deflect from it.

Civilians lost their lives here man, the shame is Israel's.





[edit on 1/6/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Scared you are going to be exposed as a paid-disinformation agent, Mr. Lizard? Who is paying you to lie?

YOU are. I thought we'd agreed that YOU were to be the horrible one and i was the good guy. Why have you gone public?

I QUIT. I expect my holiday pay and bonus too on the amount we settled on.


--

(Above may be a lie).

--

I don't know that I would call either of you the good guys. Lizard, your posts are sounding more and more anti-Semite in nature. Why all the hate toward the Israeli soldiers when you don't even know for sure all of the events that went down?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Right I understand. But in my view I don't find the Israeli blockade to be legal, and I don't believe a majority of the UN/ International Community does either. Even the US refused to speak if it's legal or not.....

Thus, the humanitarians who were dead-set on bringing an end to this illegal blockade, did their best to do that. Hell they even STOPPED to avoid a NIGHTTIME showdown with the IDF........

But no...you know what the IDF did? They conducted a night-time raid (to prevent more video coverage IMO) whilst the ship was awaiting day-light. Not only that, they did it BEFORE the ship entered into Israeli territorial waters.

This all leads me to believe the IDF conducted the night raid so that less information could get out and they could spin-doctor it up. Which is CLEARLY what they have done if you look at the video on the "official" IDF youtube channel. Every single one is "selective" in the video it provides, and is edited together to ONLY show activists FIGHTING BACK, not to show the IDF first boarding the ship. Why wouldn't the IDF show any videos of the people grabbing the pipes, poles, and other weapons? Because they know it likely shows one of their IDF Commandos, shoving weapons in people's faces, harassing them, hell it might even show them kill a few BEFORE the RIOT starts.....

My point is you can't base your view on this event on IDF video...They will NEVER show you themselves doing anything wrong....It's going to be one-sided....

Yet if you look at the Turkish News network footage, they have no problem showing that some of the activists have pipes, poles, ect ect. Now why would the Turkish news network wanna show the activists being violent...UNLESS they were defending themselves from the Commando forces, which subsequent EYE-WITNESS REPORTS confirm.....

Don't believe the IDF propaganda on this matter, use other sources for defending Israel, because I don't believe a SINGLE thing the IDF shows me when they are the aggressor here...

[edit on 6/1/10 by ElijahWan]

Originally posted by black cat

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Scared you are going to be exposed as a paid-disinformation agent, Mr. Lizard? Who is paying you to lie?

YOU are. I thought we'd agreed that YOU were to be the horrible one and i was the good guy. Why have you gone public?

I QUIT. I expect my holiday pay and bonus too on the amount we settled on.


--

(Above may be a lie).

--

I don't know that I would call either of you the good guys. Lizard, your posts are sounding more and more anti-Semite in nature. Why all the hate toward the Israeli soldiers when you don't even know for sure all of the events that went down?

How is criticizing a countries' Special Force Commandos the same as criticizing the Jewish Religion? Please don't try that anti-Semite bull#### here...We both know he has no problem with Jewish people...He has a problem with their Military forces killing civilians and the way their government acts....

Originally posted by black cat

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Scared you are going to be exposed as a paid-disinformation agent, Mr. Lizard? Who is paying you to lie?

YOU are. I thought we'd agreed that YOU were to be the horrible one and i was the good guy. Why have you gone public?

I QUIT. I expect my holiday pay and bonus too on the amount we settled on.


--

(Above may be a lie).

--

I don't know that I would call either of you the good guys. Lizard, your posts are sounding more and more anti-Semite in nature. Why all the hate toward the Israeli soldiers when you don't even know for sure all of the events that went down?

Wrong choice of words because Palestinians are Semites too.

So, since Israel just announced that they are easing the blockade, that they are admitting that what they did was wrong? Straight from the AP not too long ago, and there is a thread on it: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway, I think that Israel did the right thing by relaxing the blockade. That was a positive step and I give kudos to them for doing that.

From what I have learned so far about this subject, Israeli main goal was to seek people from their list and kill them while in international waters.