Crop Circles...with some actual evidence

Originally posted by Julie Washington
Atlasastro:

I read the PDF file you linked to. Was there something new there I was suppose to learn? It looks like the rehashing of the same arguments regarding this limited samplings as not sufficient enough to present an undisputible hypothesis. (In their opinion basically)

Ah! The irony. You linked this study, not me. Ask yourself those questions.
BTW, no one presents a hypothesis supported by evidence, they only suggest one from assumed evidence. Everyone except those that claim CC are man made, they present lots of evidence to support the hypothesis.

I see no new field research to dispute or contradict their findings, but rather just critisism of their sampling techniques.

Duh!

You state:
...have you considered the problem I mention concerning the fact that all the images of 'bent" or "elongated" or "blown" crop nodes only ever show one node on the stem?

I can explain this with natural causes of photo and gravitropism.

How do you explain these "isolated nodes" on individual plants considering you have linked "studies" claiming electromagnetic or other(isotopes) elements?

Why are there no images of multiple "bent', "elongated" or "blown" nodes?

Do you mean like these?

Thank you. I do mean that.


Look at all the images of the nodes.
They are images of single nodes, all individual nodes. Not images of multiple nodes on a single stem.



Wow, they found one.
Where did that Image come from?
Wow, they should have a whole field of these if they found one. Were was this one from?

This is my point, the claim surrounding a source that effects plants with these energies, there should be thousands of images like these all over the place because ALL the plants within the CC will be effected by the cause.
Would you agree with that?

Do we see that in the images?
No.

Can you explain that?
Because it is a question I would like answered.

How about we review more recent studies. Now I know you have a hard on for BLT research. But they do have more recent research to analyze.

PLANT ABNORMALITIES INDICATE PLASMA DISCHARGE
IN 2009 UK CROP CIRCLES

2009 Field Reports

These are field reports not studies.
I know you have a hard on for BLT, but this is just desperation.

Just point me to the Journal it was published in please.
What?
Sorry?
What do you mean they haven't published any research since Levengoode?

"Because in-depth sampling and subsequent intensive laboratory work was not carried out in 2009 we cannot be 100% certain that the visible plant changes we found are absolute proof these formations were genuine. But an educated estimate can be offered in several instances. '

So you are now telling me that the "study you linked" is useless. So all we have is more evidence that is not evidence of anything.
This is not a new study or research but more crap from BLT.

Also:
"Whether it is the intensity level of the microwaves in any particular event, or the length of time involved in their discharge, or perhaps the angle of impact or the overall size and/or complexity of the plasma energy system itself which dictates in which instances tram-lines would function in this manner remains to be discovered."

Really, you mean, they haven't discovered anything relating to the cause they suggest or imagine.
Ground breaking. No really.
Because they said that 10 years ago too.

Anomolies DO exist that are unexplainable

No, claims that anomalies exist is more accurate. They cannot show that the anomalies identifty CC's. BLT say that.

"There are persons determined to believe and admit nothing what they see and touch; whatever you would prove to them by reasoning; be it ever so solid, they are disposed to suspect, unless you place it before their eyes. Letters of Euler.

I think my one will be:
There are persons determined to believe anything, whether you would prove to them by reasoning; be it ever solid, they disposed to suspect, unless you place it before them in support of their fantasy. Letters from Atlas astro.



[edit on 3-6-2010 by Julie Washington]

[edit on 3/6/10 by atlasastro]

reply to post by Software_Pyrate

So many people looking for an answer...

Crop Circles are Design Patterns for an Anti-Gravity Star Ship Engine

I've quit my search for "What" crop circles purpose is, having found what appears to be a verifiable answer rooted in mathematics, physics and electrical and aerospace engineering, with a bit of quantum mechanics and (possibly) some ZPE thrown in. Please read on.

I've always been searching for nuggets of truth on crop circles as well... They have become so elaborate and obviously communicate some kind of essential, geometrical - mathematical information. However, since there have been a few moronic hoaxers to feed the TV networks, there has always been room for doubt about the rest of the circles.

Nevertheless, at least one case in England held me. A couple on an errand had walked past some undisturbed grain fields, and upon the same return path something like 10 minutes later, an elaborate crop circle pattern had been laid down in one of those fields, in daytime. Totally verified. No humans could possibly have made that pattern in that short time frame... So I kept on searching... (Story verifiable at www.lucypringle.co.uk... - Amazing crop circle photos from Lucy Pringle.)

Then I happened across this site, the Crop Circle Space Ship wiki:
www.cropcircleship.com...

Wow. This website makes clear conclusions that each circle is a component part of a total "blueprint" for an anti-gravity spacecraft engine design, for a seriously large star ship. The information is clearly repeated in patterns from circle to circle, each circle adding a bit more detail to the total puzzle. (If you are a neg/driveby or unaware/have been sleeping for a couple of decades, anti-gravity / electro-gravitic devices are already a fact in the US Space Command, not to mention the thousands of UFOs flying around Earth. Start at en.wikipedia.org... search ref's from there, including Thomas Valone, et.al.)

In the wiki, the majority of crop circles have been evaluated - you can easily see the intelligent design and interlocking patterns, as if described in an engineering or physics textbook, with some patterns 'zooming in' on details. As an electrical engineer myself, it was all quite revealing, and quite believable. In fact, I had looked at most of the circles at Lucy Pringle's great site, and earlier remarked that one had looked to me like a microwave antenna design (I worked in a microwave antenna lab for a while), and guess what? The wiki describes that particular crop circle as the engine's main driver - the microwave source/amplifier. It's perfectly engineered for it, and they've already achieved lift in a prototype device using that exact pattern.

A good example: www.cropcircleship.com...

I forgot to mention - they aren't just analyzing the crop circles - they are actively engaged in engineering a prototype and building an actual engine that completes the design. They do footnote their site that not all the puzzle pieces are in hand, yet. They anxiously await each new circle as it appears.

Go take a look at this and see if you might find yourself agreeing that these circles are conveying intelligent, mathematically precise information for an intelligent design OF SOMETHING -- AT LEAST! We may find ourselves flying in one of these things some day, if we get past our present troubles and limitations anyway.

These crop circles are evidenced to be made in only a few seconds time, with high electromagnetic forces involved and a water vapor mist persisting in the air a few feet above the ground for a short time afterward. These are made by a higher intelligence, that much is clear. What they are communicating is now clear. The question now has become to me: Why? And why now? We should be searching for t

reply to post by Software_Pyrate

So many people looking for an answer...

Crop Circles are a Reply from Higher Intelligence

Apart from my immediately preceeding/first reply to Software_Pyrate, "Crop Circles are Design Patterns for an Anti-Gravity Star Ship Engine," (see www.cropcircleship.com...), here is an unrelated, non-hoaxed, "crop circle" -- a 30x90 meter rectangle actually -- that was laid down in a field on 14 August 2001. This particular crop circle was a digital-binary-encoded response, using 1's and 0's, to a digital-binary-coded radio message pulsed by the Arecibo radio telescope in a message directed to globular star cluster M13 in 1974 by SETI (Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence).

The SETI message consisted of 1679 pulses in a unique combination of two prime numbers, 23 and 73, and other encoded information about life on planet Earth, including a double DNA spiral strand pattern, and atomic information supporting life.

The crop message, found in England in a field near a radio telescope on 14 August 2001, 27 years later, repeated nearly the identical encoded information; however, it had some changes to it that were decipherable: the DNA strand had been changed to a triple strand, and an additional atom, Silicon, had been added, as important to life. There is much more to the story, which is fascinating, at:

www.paranormalnews.com...

The encoded reply basically returned information about humanoid biological life on a different planet, humanoids with tri-stranded DNA and whose biology depends upon Silicon (an additional element to what humans already require to live.)

DreamVoyager
We are meant to travel to the stars

reply to post by f16vet


Wow...thanks for the enlightenment.I've been going though both sites for a good hour 45 minutes now, and look forward to more

That is the first time I've heard anything about actually combining the symbolic relations of CC's.

Gonna take some time to go through
and I'll get back with ya.
thanks

New photos from the Castle Hill July 5th formation showing double expulsion on node.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/aba9ef85f7d2.jpg[/atsimg]

Source

Also came across these videos of Crop Circle formations on 7/7/7. I found them very interesting.

East field Part 1



East field Part 2



East field Part 3



East field Part 4





[edit to fix links on 7-7-2010 by Julie Washington]

[edit on 7-7-2010 by Julie Washington]

Logic, a brief knowledge of history, and common sense alone are all that is needed to debunk crop circles. The fact that there is zero physical evidence - and bent stalks that get swollen when they dry up in the day time air do not count - just makes it a bit depressing.

I totally understand people who are convinced because they've been lied to about anomalous evidence. I was duped myself, before I found out what a big scam BLT is. But when you're looking for truth, you can't let your ego run checks that your intellectual honesty can't cash.

Originally posted by Software_Pyrate
But for now we are left with....HOW?

We have actual field data from numerous sources...gives us something to work with...atleast for the HOW part.

But WHO....got no proof so I can't form a theory....But I have an opinion.

well, in the spirit of good sportsmanship, i am going to give my idea now, before i read any more of the thread - and your idea, if you've already shared it, as well as any others.

now, this is what i've thought all along, from the very first inkling i had toward understanding, PERHAPS, what this phenomenon is all about. i went on data much like you have presented here, related to geo-magnetics, etc.
i also took into account the underlying geography in the area of Wiltshire and Hampshire, where the phenomenon seems to be more prevalent or perhaps centrally located, whatever.

that very first inkling i got was probably around 2005/2006, just fyi - because now more and more information is surfacing and being figured out that backs up my theory, pretty much all the way...

i say it is through the water, which travels underground in that area, in aquifers - ancient aquifers, or at least flowing through very old and very interesting formations from the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods.

www.naturalengland.org.uk...

At Wootton Bassett, to the south-west of Swindon is an example of an hydrogeological phenomenon which is extremely rare in Britain. This is a mud-spring, which here consists of several vents which emit liquid mud (derived from the underlying Ampthill Clay Formation) all year round and at increased rate after periods of prolonged rainfall. The vents have been shown to contain liquid mud to a depth of about 6 m. Geochemical evidence indicates that the water contained in the mud appears to originate from an aquifer in the Jurassic Coral Rag Formation, the top of which underlies the Ampthill Clay Formation at a depth of 20 m.

so, the water brings information, and the HOW of that i will address later, as well as my ideas on where the information comes from.

the information travels in the water up to the areas of the frequent crop circles, coming from the aquifer(s) into the top soil, up through the roots of the crops and into the plants.

the properties of this information are that of energy, itself, with electromagnetic properties. there is a new idea afoot in Quantum Mechanics/physics that there are possibly THREE forms of manifested energy, with the new third one being information - also suspected to be the domain of the 5th dimension (3rd space, 4th time, 5th information).

when the information comes out of the ground, inside the stalks, or maybe alongside such as lightning does, (but i'm leaning toward "inside"), it reacts somehow with the energy above ground and this is what causes the microwave effects - actually the anomalies are caused by "interference."

there is some interesting eye-witness testimony and information on Lucy Pringle's website, which i linked to the other day, in another thread, here.

if you read what i've presented there, it will suffice as the conclusion of my idea about how these crop circles come to be.

the "how" of the water transmission of communication is in the hydrogen atoms - i think that they are the principle information-transports throughout the entire universe - being the first and most abundant element is a good supporting fact.

and the "from" is the core of the earth, maybe. it is the place where all our human thoughts, words, and activities end up, somehow, and are concentrated and energized and sent back out into the world.

everything is a cycle, and the Earth is no exception. in fact, she is one of the most amazing perpetual recycling systems that probably exists, at least in our realm of being and perception.

that's it.
a bit strange, i know, but it makes too much sense to me to disregard based on lack of convention, and i've never been much for conventional explanations in answer to non-conventional occurrences.

i look forward to reading the rest of the thread, now!
looks like a good one, for sure.

reply to post by Software_Pyrate


I didn't have much interest in crop circles until I saw the one from Avebury, July 15th 2008.
Link to Image-

I recognized this as a representation of our solar system and also a calendar. The date is of coarse that of Earth's winter solstice (Dec. 21st), 2012 and with all of the 2012 hype this just screamed "Man Made" to me.

However this thread is not about who did this but how it was done and it seems that "how" is still in question for at least some of these formations.

Phage brought up a good question,

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Software_Pyrate

 

No.

I do not believe node elongation is an effect of the CC. I think it is a result of sunlight. It will happen whether or not there is a CC.

If node elongation is the cause of the CC, how can it apply to the complex formations we see? How does the radiative distribution of electromagnetic radiation from a point source account for this:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/13e0a63fbde4910c.jpg[/atsimg]

The question here is can we apply any theory, as to how, to explain these complex formations? Even if we assume that all crop circles are man made we are still left with the question of how they did it.

After I started looking at the number of complicated crop formations I couldn't help but be amazed. They are beautiful and very intriguing. Personally I fail to see how people can make all of these formations by way of physical, conventional means (ex. ropes and boards).

I have noticed that many of these complex formations, like the one Phage posted, can be reproduced with vibrations on a fluid medium- see Cymatics

Can complex patterns like this be made by conventional, physical means?

There seems to be evidence suggesting that they cannot. This is very interesting if true, Electro-magnetic wave patterns with physical effects that are inversely proportionate to the square of the distance from the point source! These patterns can be reproduced by vibrational and/or EM waves. This therefore seems to indicate that a device is being used that radiates a pattern. Yet this explanation just brings up more questions.

If the above statement is true than we have two different types of formations here. Those which can be reproduced by conventional means (ex. with ropes & boards) and those that suggest a more unconventional means (showing Cymatic wave patterns).

There needs to be some classification to these formations that differentiate between means that are conventional (i.e. physical) and unconventional (i.e. showing wave structured patterns). Regardless of who made these there seems to be a mystery as to how they were made unless someone can explain how people can tromp down plants in these fields to make such complicated and precise patterns.

[edit on 7/25/2010 by Devino]

reply to post by Devino


Here's the truth...from my point of view.


The "how" gets more and more complicated....

I personally believe there is advance technology that is creating the genuine CC's. So the Point source that phage referrers to is just a simplification of such....saying that; a point source could not produce complex patterns.....well....I say that very same em field or whatever is moving and is able to be focused.......therefore....any and all complex patterns could be achieved and produce the very same node elongation that we see....

very good points bud.....noted....added.....

reply to post by Software_Pyrate


I think Phage is correct to a point. The inverse square law works for all point sources of energy; light, sound, radio, gravity...etc. The energy being strongest in the center and getting weaker towards the perimeter. However what I see in these formations, like the one Phage posted, is interference patterns. There have been other posters who have made this same connection.

These patterns can actually be seen using sound and water, i.e. Cymatics, and I see no reason why these other sources of energy cannot do the same thing. So I believe that different types of EM waves can create these interference patterns.

Cymatics is truly amazing and is well deserving of further study, stand alone. Now add in the connection with some crop formations and this adds to the intrigue.

About node expulsion
You want to say that someone is also microwaving deliberately lodged plants?

I think you cover the facts rather well. Consider the amount of hard science establishing that some crop circles are not made by the hand of humanity and given the number of interesting videos and sound recordings of several crop circles as they were being made, it is simply implausible for anyone to suggest that they are all hoaxes. Simply stated: They aren't all hoaxes.

I'm not sure if you know this but there is an interesting coincidence between crop circles and UFOs and between these phenomena and ancient monuments in the south of England, especially the region known as Wessex. The number of crop circles reported near the White Horse of Uffington is simply astonishing. Another locality where crop circles are common is Cheeseford Head, which is also a place with many pre-Celtic barrows.

I have no idea what the crops circle phenomenon is about bit one shouldn't dismiss it as bogus because there is too much accumulated evidence that suggests that something odd is happening. A great web site for crop circle science is www.cropcircleresearch.com. Linda Moulton Howe has also conducted quite a bit of research on them (www.earthfiles.com). I would be remiss if I didn't mention the mathematical research on crop circles conducted by Gerald Hawkins, who discovered evidence for the musical scale in some circles. Hawkins estimated the statistical probability that some of the more elaborate circles were manmade was nil. Hawkins gives a nice interview here: www.share-international.org/.../crop_circles/cc_ml-music-spheres.htm

I don't think this has been posted yet, a really great video on a subject I've pretty much avoided (thanks to all the hoaxing and BS)...

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Toxicsurf
I don't think this has been posted yet, a really great video on a subject I've pretty much avoided (thanks to all the hoaxing and BS)...

www.youtube.com...

edit on 19-3-2011 by Toxicsurf because: (no reason given)

Superb video, eye opening, provocative and still leaves me with the "WHAT IF"S" perception, true the debate on Haselhof and the BLT was interesting but if we are going to lump ALL formations as man made then there is one avenue that does not add up on my perceptions; That avenue is "TIME WINDOWS/TIME FRAMES" that are realistically needed to for human origins of formations that contain not only complex designs but size and the number of circles contain in a formation;Realistic "TIME WINDOWS/TIME FRAMES" need more investigations in some of the large and complex formations, is it possible to humanly create a very large and complex design in any given time frame without detection and why has there never been documented physical evidence from those that claim to have done most formations in video or in front of witnesses;Why has there never been a successful complex and large formation duplicated by these circle makers without faults or signs of human manipulation in the forms of footprints or broken or damaged stems or plants;

When and if some of those claiming that ALL formations are from known or mundane sources provided evidence showing a perfect replica of a formation that contains highly complex designs and NO signs of human manipulation then i feel its open to possibilities that SOME formations could be secret military teck or ET in source;

Originally posted by Toxicsurf
I don't think this has been posted yet, a really great video on a subject I've pretty much avoided (thanks to all the hoaxing and BS)...

www.youtube.com...

edit on 19-3-2011 by Toxicsurf because: (no reason given)

Yes, this is an excellent full feature film. This is not a youtube video, but a full feature film. Recommended for all.

G' Day Folks.

I came across this thread read through it (roughly) and I am once again gobsmacked.

Once again it shows me that nobody does their homework, the hard yards, I mean what's the matter with everyone today (Scientist included) I wanted to know whether microwaves could bend nodes etc., over a decade ago.

Going through webpages/threads on the Internet at the time were all just quoting BLT's work (including scientist) which left you wanting so I set about growing a range of plants from rye to corn.

Following BLT's protocol/methodology to the letter and more I set about microwaving them, running high voltage through them (single phase with capacitors) in situ.

Applied external heat (as opposed to internal heat microwave) and the results I hear you ask?

Zilch nothing happened to the nodes EVERYTIME IT WAS THE STEM THAT BLEW OUT (using microwave) and collapsed the plant no bending of the nodes no expulsions no nothing.

Whether the plant was green or mature (straw colour) the stem would split vertically EVERYTIME as a young plant in the tiller stage it tended to blow a hole in the side of the stem rather than split it vertically.

And this was hundreds and hundreds of plants as I said from rye through to corn.

Doing the work yourself you'll then see who is talking rubbish including scientist as I said they are just quoting some one's work as fact without doing the hard yards themselves, you will see this on one website after another.

There's a lot of bad science out there folks.

Cheers Aussiebloke2

G' Day Folks.

I have stated in my last post that microwaves do not explode, bend or elongate nodes.
Originally Levengood said might be, could be, probable Microwaves.

Since then you have webpage after webpage some of them scientist stating like it is a fact that mircowaves are responsible for the bending of nodes.

The latest scientist are Richard Taylor and Michio Kaku.

It is always the stem that explodes I'm not going into the physics of what microwaves do except to say it is to do with the amount of water (moisture) in the stem verses in the node.

Inside the node is a white fibroses ball and its water content is lower than the stem.
The stem between the nodes is a tube sealed at each the moisture quickly turns to steam rupturing or splitting the stem vertically.

As far as I know nobody reports split stems when claiming it wuz microwaves wutz dunit.

Anyway as I said when you do the science things just jump out at you.

Like on this page eleven all the pictures (not referring to the videos) are telling you the truth that microwaves are not involved.

Can you pick it?

Cheers Aussiebloke2

It may have been mentioned but I was interested in the soil. In one article it talks about how it seems baked. I get the impression of a radiation effect. Just my opinion (and a pulling as the radiation - like taking an X-ray is happening).

www.cropcirclesecrets.org...

G' Day Folks, and good morning to you Dianec

Originally posted by Dianec
It may have been mentioned but I was interested in the soil. In one article it talks about how it seems baked. I get the impression of a radiation effect. Just my opinion (and a pulling as the radiation - like taking an X-ray is happening).

www.cropcirclesecrets.org...

Not sure I follow but I'll take a stab at it.

This thread is about using data that claims to be able to prove if a crop circle is genuine or not.

I've ran the same test and can't get the same results something is wrong.

The website you link Dianec is the same ol' same ol' starts out telling you can't trust anyone then just rehashing other folks work and saying you can trust us and all they have done is a copy and paste.

No updates no videos actually showing you a node bending over using MW or anything else.

>(and a pulling as the radiation - like taking an X-ray is happening). <

If you suggesting and energy source pointed at earth from space that can heat the plants how do you get the crop to fall in the direction you want it too? It would only (if it at possible) heat the plant blow stem/stems out then collapse the plant in any direction.

Microwaves and the like cannot influence (push a plant over) say in the direction you want.

The baking of the soil is another one there's no consistency, like the majority of first nodes should be bent over in every genuine CC if you claiming that MW was the cause as proof of a genuine CC.

Then all genuine CCs with a clay mixed soil should be fried you can't have it both ways it's not science.

I MW my soil just to see what happens a loam/clay mix you should have heard the noise it made in the MW oven snap crackling and popping.

No way are you going to get the heat range to "bake the soil" with MW however under magnification you could see the damage, anything with moisture in it like tiny eggs, tiny wood fibres, root joints etc., All ruptured a give away that it was MWed when compared to a control sample.

Have you read this anywhere else?

Plants are sensitive to heat, when I tested grain species they don't have much tolerances at all which is quite scary.

So claiming you can heat the ground right under them to those temperatures claimed by researches and the plants survived is not on, I mean the roots are in that soil and their not harmed, heeello.

The bulk of the websites you see claiming to be scientific regarding the subject of CC are believers masquerading as thinkers.

The only way to get at the truth is do your own work.

I guess nobodies work out what is not right in those photo's on page eleven if MW are suppose to be involved.

If I didn't understand you right Dianec let's know

Cheers Aussiebloke

G' Day Folks, What? Yes it's me again.

I've realised I may not be making myself clear here.

I cannot explain what causes node expulsion elongation etc,. because all the test I've done either internally or externally heating cereal plants has not yielded anything like you see on the BLT site.

As others have mention if you are going to claim that Microwaves or any other wave forms including mystical energies where you claim HEAT is involved in the uniformed flattening process of the CC then your HEAT source has to be uniformly applied as well, you can't have it both ways.

So let's forget THE FORM OF ENERGY that you think is used to heat the plants with for a while.

IT'S THE HEATING OF THE PLANTS THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

Just a bit about cereal crops they sensitive to heat.

If you take a vegetable say broccoli heat it internally/externally the chlorophyll will go a brighter green at the beginning of the heating process and then settle back down but it will retain its green colour.

Cereal plants like wheat and barley when heated as above in situ the chlorophyll will brighten up in the leaf material indicating it's injured and the DIE turning a sort dirty grey first then dries to a brown colour.

The stem of the plant also looses its green colour going to a yellow or straw colour.

In other words you have effectively KILLED the plant.

So what amount of heat is required to do this? Very little.

Cereal crops start stressing from about 30 Celsius on, however I was looking for a heat range (external) that would KILL a plant in 30 seconds which turned out to be 60 Celsius 45/50 will also kill the plant but you have to leave it in the heat longer according to temperature.

So you can see you are not going to be getting steam rupturing this that and the other as claimed are you?

You have killed the chlorophyll the plants energy source the plant now goes into the maturation stage.

Now here is the kicker.

To be continued

Cheers Aussiebloke2