Obama tells military: prepare for North Korea aggression

Originally posted by bair1975
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

 

Its really not a fair exchange of words unless you can tell us what country we should be respecting? Stupid American? You sure about that? Cause last I checked we are obviously fairly intelligent to have chosen the Bread Basket of the world as our Homeland? Not to point out the obvious but maybe you and your country should take a lesson in American Pride.....Then maybe we wouldn't be having to recue all you sheep from your evil human rights violating dictators? Just a thought? And maybe with a lesson in American Pride your country could become a superpower one day and fly financial aid,food,medicine and rescue workers around to the less fortunate countries? Maybe then you wouldn't have to worry about the stupid POLICE watchin over you? Just a thought? If you would like to throw uneducated statements around some more I'd be happy to educate them for ya! Peace.....

(pretty much all of this was answered by and14263... so I have little to add at this time)

Just curious... I'm from Europe so... in your history book who was the last dictator you rescued me from?

Just want to see if you're blindly patriotic, ignorant or naive.

Originally posted by The Theorist
reply to post by Final Solstice

 

I further argue that according to a briefing a while back, China had hacked into Air force and Pentagon computers, and walked away with a treasure trove of information, not limited to, but including detailed specifications of our F-22 Raptor?

Really if you look at the information available around the internet (Wikileaks, I'm thinking of you), and various other sources, China's military is damn near as technologically sophisticated as ours, and bigger?

Food for thought.

Having documentation does not mean being knowledgeable and experimented at doing the knowledge covered in this document.

It would still take years and large amounts of money to actually materialise products. Building a Raptor from scratch based on documents they have, most unlikely. More likely they would use some technologies described in those documents, but it would still take them a while to have a working end product.

And I seriously doubt 100% of the systems and components and architecture and assembly details are within a single document. There is most likely hundreds of thousands of pages spread over hundreds of documents.

Plus keep in mind the Chinese have no modern warfare experience. Even if you were to give 100% of the US Army/Navy/Air Force equipment to China tomorrow, they would probably end up shooting at each other due to the lack of skills and experience.

China is far to have the equipment the US Military have and their military budget was far below the US one for many many years. And it still is, as of today, probably around 1/5 of the US one. It only started to grow about 10 years ago. The US really since post WWII has been spending billion and billion every year.

They have a huge infantry that's for sure. Bigger than the US. But that is pretty it. They are doing research etc, have some equipment, but miles away from the US.

reply to post by SilverUmbrella


Here's some information on what the Chinese military may have at their disposal:

www.softwar.net...

www.comw.org... (10 years old but worth a scan)

www.fpri.org... An interesting read on Chinese/American defense strategy.

Originally posted by order in chaos

Obama tells military: prepare for North Korea aggression

news.yahoo.com

President Barack Obama has directed the U.S. military to coordinate with South Korea to "ensure readiness" and deter future aggression from North Korea, the White House said on Monday.

The United States gave strong backing to plans by South Korean President Lee Myung-bak to punish North Korea for sinking one of its naval ships, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said in a statement.

(visit the link for the full news article)

What are the South Korean's going to do? Wait until a North Korean Battle ship sails into its waters and blow it up? They might have a long wait....! Which floors the questions. What would any other country do in the event of an aggressor sailing their battleship into their waters? And what does this whole matter have anything to do with any other country apart from South Korea?

Originally posted by and14263
reply to post by SilverUmbrella

 

Here's some information on what the Chinese military may have at their disposal:

www.softwar.net...

www.comw.org... (10 years old but worth a scan)

www.fpri.org... An interesting read on Chinese/American defense strategy.

Yes what they have is more or less known, but as you can see they have a lot of old technologies mixed with newer ones.

The fact they are supposed to have 3000 fighter jets, does not mean they are able to catch up with latest furtive jets and radars and missiles.

For me the number is one thing, the technology, firepower and experience is another.

Russia would be in a very similar technology wise, probably even worse as lesser new R&D developments were made. They have a lot of submarines, but top of my head I think about 10 are still in service and would be able to pick up a war. They still have some new stuff, but very little. The others are too old, broken down etc. Remember how easily the Afghans took down those Russian choppers few years back using those advanced US Army RPG (Back at that time at least) ?



[edit on 25-5-2010 by SilverUmbrella]

Dont rely on Australia s contribution for subs, we cant even keep ours afloat let alone war ready.
What troops we do have have been sent to Iraq and Afghanistan.
If either Sth or Nth changed there minds and decided to take us on we would be screwed.
We would have Mr Rudd screaming on the U.S doorstep in minutes begging him to let us in. lol

Which will strike the first blow, any ideas on how and when this might play out? What about the increase of possible terrorism when all this beings. Can a watchful eye be kept on all fronts?

Even if you were to give 100% of the US Army/Navy/Air Force equipment to China tomorrow, they would probably end up shooting at each other due to the lack of skills and experience.

Yeah because the US army never shoot their own do they!

This doesn't make it sound like things are getting any better.

www.reuters.com...

"In this connection, the following measures will be taken at the first phase: "1. All relations with the puppet authorities will be severed. "2. There will be neither dialogue nor contact between the authorities during (South Korean President) Lee Myung Bak's tenure of office. "3. The work of the Panmunjom Red Cross liaison representatives will be completely suspended. "4. All communication links between the north and the south will be cut off. "5. The Consultative Office for North-South Economic Cooperation in the Kaesong Industrial Zone will be frozen and dismantled and all the personnel concerned of the south side will be expelled without delay. "6. We will start all-out counterattack against the puppet group's 'psychological warfare against the north.' "7. The passage of south Korean ships and airliners through the territorial waters and air of our side will be totally banned. "8. All the issues arising in the inter-Korean relations will be handled under a wartime law. "There is no need to show any mercy or patience for such confrontation maniacs, sycophants and traitors and wicked warmongers as the (South Korean President) Lee Myung Bak group."

Yes, the nuthead kim of North Korea is mad, and so are his warmongering generals seeking to justify their cushioned existance in a poverty hit nation. But ultimately, when nations go to war, the need a good reason.

Justifying the attack on their ship is NO EXCUSE for S. Korea to go on a war footing, let alone sacrificing millions of S. Korean and American young lives, not to mention millions other civilians.

The supposed reason of the ship being torpedoed is an undeniable fact. No mortal alive can deny otherwise. But who is responsible is a question mark. Is such reasoning to attack and sacrifice millions of innocent lives justifiable?

Absolutely not!! if not horrifying!!!.

Let N. Korea come clean. And at the same time, pressure N. Korea through international trade sanctions to open their military ships log for investigations. Should they be tampered. then there is no absolutely no reason to justify an attack, for there is an element of doubt. We MUST NEVER sacrifice our young's precious lives on elements of doubts!

If the investigations showed a ship captain had made a mistake, or a deliberate attack, then let him be penalised or hang for his murder, and N.Korea pay financial compensation for the lives of the dead, and find ways to minimise future mistakes.

After WW2, we had evolved a system of internation justice, and it must be upheld at all times, or we will only revert to barbarism within short notice, and the destruction of your precious young.

Nutcase short assed kim deserved to go, but it can only be in the hand of his people. Democracy must be fought, with blood if neccesary, by its own countrymen, and can never be bestowed upon by mortal men.

There must be no war until justice is served. And no young men - north, south, American must be sacrificed. Please, no more.

reply to post by stealthyaroura


This thread is about North Korea.

double

[edit on 25-5-2010 by InvisibleAlbatross]

Can Someone Explain to me the ties between North Korea And China?
a little before my time.


Because the way i see it : Kim jonk Il is Insane, Entire World knows it and is most likely Sick of it.

We should Join millitary Forces with the Chinese and Give them North Korea to help settle the Debt.

Originally posted by mstkn28
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

 

Until one person makes one wrong move... then its game on! I do wish the NK people could have a chance at regular life. They think they have it, can you imagine what they'd think if the border was open to the south and a person could see what Seoul has to offer?

Out of curiosity, what does Seoul have to offer???

Here we go again -- another distraction.

This BP oil gusher may finally be the tipping point to knock us all out of our "let the experts handle it" fugue state.

But North Korea -- wow, what a threat! Maybe they could make a tree glow or launch another pop rocket. Meanwhile, we've got a disaster that far exceeds all the combined attacks of all the terrorists ever in the Gulf, and we CANNOT defend ourselves or our future, we've got to wait until BP feels comfortable in handling it without spending too much.

I guess it's too much to hope for that execs order some huge Ocean plug priority mail -- so we've got to have a "threat" from Little Kim. What would we do without North Korea or Iran as the bogey man these days?

Originally posted by ziggy1706
obama is a WOOS
all talk and no play makes jack a dull boy

your talking about a president who bowed to the chinese months ago!
bet at least if this was BUSH, wede already have bombed north koreas big mouth shut or any other preisdent or that matter. show the world we dont take it, america respnds without flintching

First of all, the word you're looking for is wuss (use your spell check for God's sake). Second of all, you're obviously not up on current events, let alone history. Kim Jong Il threatened us a long time ago while George Bush Jr. was still in office. George Bush backed up and chose not to do anything...AT ALL.

I can tell that you're still a partisan player...aren't ya??? Still fooled by the chess game that was set up for you to lose. Bush and Obama are one in the same, there's no difference between them...they might as well share the same skin color for all I'm concerned. They're both owned by corporations and special interests who pull the strings of the puppet that we refer to as, "the president."

Wake up skippy...ahem, excuse me...Ziggy. We need thinkers on ATS, not robots. And so far, you're still running the same program that has fooled Americans for DECADES. It doesn't matter who is in office, the only thing that matters is who's interests are being served and who finances those interests. Do you think that the measly amount of money that the taxpayers give trumps the amount of money that corporations do??? If so, I would love to sell you some ocean-side, beachfront land in Antarctica. Just send me your cash through paypal, and afterward, we'll work out the details. Better yet, make that Western Union.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
Here we go again -- another distraction.

This BP oil gusher may finally be the tipping point to knock us all out of our "let the experts handle it" fugue state.

But North Korea -- wow, what a threat! Maybe they could make a tree glow or launch another pop rocket. Meanwhile, we've got a disaster that far exceeds all the combined attacks of all the terrorists ever in the Gulf, and we CANNOT defend ourselves or our future, we've got to wait until BP feels comfortable in handling it without spending too much.

I guess it's too much to hope for that execs order some huge Ocean plug priority mail -- so we've got to have a "threat" from Little Kim. What would we do without North Korea or Iran as the bogey man these days?

Jeez dude, if I could give you an applause...I would. A star will have to suffice.

It amazes me how many people still DON'T GET IT (thank God that you're one of them that do.)

They can never see what is staring at them right in front of their faces and are easily fooled by distractions or "sleight of hand."

How many times can Americans be fooled by the same gambit??? Seriously. I'm sure that even the politicians are perplexed at the sheer stupidity of Americans to be fooled by the same trick incessantly. However, it makes things simple for the political actors involved...they don't even need to change the game plan up because Americans fall for it hook, line and sinker every single time.

Originally posted by 7even7eas
Can Someone Explain to me the ties between North Korea And China?
a little before my time.


Because the way i see it : Kim jonk Il is Insane, Entire World knows it and is most likely Sick of it.

We should Join millitary Forces with the Chinese and Give them North Korea to help settle the Debt.

Really??? Kim Jong Il is insane??? Show me proof that he's any more insane than say...George Bush. Show me that he's any more insane than say...Obama. Because, I don't see N. Korea fighting any wars or oppressing anyone but their own people. However, I do see America fighting against anyone that they can STEAL oil from, or any natural resource that will benefit them in their WORLDWIDE QUEST FOR GLOBAL DOMINATION.

So...who's insane again???

Give me ONE INSTANCE of Kim Jong Il's insanity. Just one. Show me how he has been a world-wide threat to anyone except the U.S.A. which comes at a very convenient time for the U.S. to capitalize off of another war just when the America's economy is collapsing right under them. Or how about the convenience of a boogieman right when there's a HUGE OIL SPILL that was created by our supposed "allies." By the way, how many people were aware that Halliburton was responsible for the concreting of both OIL SPILLS that have occurred recently? Interestingly enough, they purchased an oil spill cleaning company just 8 days before the oil spill occurred in OUR WATERS (I'm sure that this was just a COINCIDENCE). They were not only behind the Australian oil spill, but ours as well.

Nonetheless, I'm SO tired of Americans falling for the same repetitive propaganda. Its so dimwitted to see it occur OVER AND OVER. They create an enemy. Then magically, there's some sort of "ATTACK." And then, America claims to be the knight in shining (stinking) armor who intends to right the wrong, and then our economy suffers because we can no longer sustain our conquests to control every living thing under the sun.

But hey, just keep trusting the machine...what do you have to lose other than...
1. worldwide respect
2. credibility
3. possible family members who are dumb enough to enlist
4. more of our sinking economy
5. Civil Liberties. Because you know...in order to fight terrorism, we need to lose essential freedoms and privacy (patriot act...wiretapping) so that we can make the world safe against EVERYTHING.
6. Moral ground
7. allies

As a matter of fact, we LOVE war so much, that we're willing to fight each other if we can't clearly define an outside threat as an enemy. (Arizona, California, Texas)

Hail to the divided States of America!!! Soon we won't even need a boogieman. We'll be so busy killing each other that to have an outside threat would only get in our way.

UGhhhhh...
8.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

First I am a newbie here reading the discussion about military capabilities of North and South Korea and America.

Many of the posters have mentioned time and again that American war machine is already stretched thin due to Iraq and Afghanistan war and will not be able to fight and or back South Korea.

As I read these and other post a scene from a movie comes across which still hold true. If you watch the movie Battle of The Bulge there is a scene where we see the German Army commander waiting till dark to launch his attack on a small pocket of resistance. His Commanding officer & the General in charge comes to see him and the meet in an mobile HQ there this conversation takes place:

General: What the hell are you doing here? you are behind schedule

Officer (col. Hessler): I am waiting to launch my attack to crush the American army.

General: This is a small pocket of resistance? go around it there is no time to waste, this is an order.

Officer (Hessler): Yes sir,

Officer(Hessler) General before you go may i show you something?

General : What is it?

Officer (Hessler): Its a chocolate cake, we captured it and hundreds of it, along with a memo that cake has to be distributed to every American soldier.

General: so?

Officer(Hessler): General If you look at the packaging it says that I was prepared in Boston 2 days ago and not one thousands of them. It means that Americans have all the air power and naval assets to even fly in cakes to their soldiers and you are asking me to speed up and keep to schedule so that we do not run out of food, ammunition and gas for our tanks. We can never win but what we have got here is a chance to break their will to fight.


well this still hold true. no doubt that in a surprise attack a lot of life's will be lost but what after it? let us suppose North Korean army can lay an artillery barrage on Seoul and kill hundreds but what after it?

American and got more that 18,000 active air force crafts ( and god only know how many mothballed, which can be made war ready in 48to72 hours) counter attack will be one hell of a thing.

seriously think about it. During world war II it took Americans only 10 days to build SS Joseph T Neal.

So in short Yes in the short term North Korea can do a lot of damage but the real question is what after that? when American or South Korea backed by Americans do counter attack North Korea will be wiped out.
That's my Take on it.

MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU.