17 States Now Filing Versions of Arizona bill

saw on the cnn ticker that the rhode island house speaker killed the illegal immigration bill in rhode island. sorry RI

[edit on 25-5-2010 by TheCoffinman]

Originally posted by consigliere
reply to post by jfj123

 

Listen 123,

i really feel like your hearts in the right place.you seem to be a truly patriotic citizen,,,as am i. i just feel like its misdirected anger.

I appreciate your opinion but my anger is directed in a number of directions. The illegal immigration issue being just one.

thats why i brought up NAFTA. there are substantial jobs leaving our country because our govt allows this.

I agree with you completely. NAFTA was and is a joke on us. I remember Ross Peroit saying that if NAFTA passes, "you'll hear a giant sucking sound", as jobs leave the US. He was 100% spot on !

do people come here illegally?,,,,absolutely, but are they only "of color"?,,,,no.

Again correct. As I've previously stated, I've run into illegals that were czech, polish and mexican.

however this new law as well as the drafts being abopted allows for racial discrimination.

Actually s1070 does not allow for profiling. With such a huge spotlight on AZ and s1070, you can imagine that the police will be very careful as to how they apply it. And keep in mind, s1070 simply re-enforcing existing federal laws. Another thing to keep in mind is that mexican illegals are the largest single group of illegals in the US.

i feel as though this is simply just one of many ploys aimed at people of color,,,preported by UnAmericans. i,,, IMO believe that there is a "racial" sort of divide taking place.

Personally I'd be more concerned about people like Rand Paul more then I'd worry about s1070. Just my opinion of course.

terrorism(people of color),healthcare reform(IMO the uproar was regarding helping the downtrodden,,,which in this country is OVERWHELMINGLY colored" and now immigration(people of color)
so how am i or any other poster making this a racist issue,,,,will any white americans be effected?

You're assuming that all white people are rich. There are plenty of white people who want healthcare reform and there have been and I'm sure currently are, white terrorists. Let's not pretend that white people don't get stopped in airports, by the police, etc...

When there was Affirmative Action in Michigan, minorities received preferrencial treatment for many things including student aid.

so my concern is that you have been manipulated by TPTB to help fuel the divide.

Not the case. Believe me, I'm the last person to believe the government especially after the bush/cheney nightmare but I have personally seen what happens when illegals are injected into our economy.

like the muslim temple going up on WTC land,,,,givin what is generally accepted about the perpertraitors,,,,this is that fuel,,,dont give in 123,,,,,CHAMPION A REAL CAUSE!

This is but one real cause which I feel strongly about. This is just one battle on a very large battlefield so to speak.

Although we disagree, I greatly respect the way you conveyed your opinion to me. Thanks for presenting an adult discussion. I give you a star sir !!

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


My own state of Michigan is considering passing similar legislation and I truly hope they do as illegals are a problem in Michigan too.

Michigan has problems...illegals are not one of them.

I'm aware of the problems Michigan has and yes, illegals are a portion of the problems.

For a state like Michigan to do this is laughable...I can almost guarantee no state is going to even talk about this seriously until they see what happens in Arizona.

Actually it's not laughable. It has a decent chance in passing as many people are behind it. That's why MI no longer issues drivers licenses to illegals.

All these states that people say are "considering" or "proposin" a similiar law are sensationlizing it. Because all it takes is for ONE state congressman to PROPOSE legislation...doesn't mean it has any chance at all to ever be passed.

You mean just like AZ ? Oh wait it passed there

Politicians are pandering for votes...and you guys are eating it up.

Now a few more questions for you:
1. Are you an American citizen by law?
2. Do you pay taxes (ss, state, federal, etc..) ?

Not sure how these are relevant. But I'll entertain you.

1. Yep...born and raised.
2. Yep...probably more than most people.

Then you understand that you are paying the taxes of illegals to make up for them. Why do you think that is ok ?
Your medical bills go up to an extent because of illegals also. Why do you think that is ok?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Let's take a look at you sig:
Those who would relinquish liberty to gain security, deserve neither and will soon lose both

Can you see how this applies to your thinking about immigration? Sacrafice some rights just to try to hunt down some people trying to feed their families in the name of "security"???

It does not at all. I have the same feeling for all criminals.
Based on your logic, we should not discriminate against rapists and killers as well.

And then this in your avatar:

Yes I know. But thanks for reminding me anyway

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies

Your convictions are blinding you to the truth of the matter...that this law is nothing but converting Az to a police state.

I could say the same thing about your convictions...that they are blinding you to the truth of the matter

I hope I don't here you cry or complain when they say that the only way to enforce this type of immigration law is by requiring everyone to carry a national ID...hell...maybe even microchipped. All in the name of security...right?

Microchipped RIGHT the cry of the clinically paranoid

Any law can be abused and as American citizens it's our responsibility to ensure those laws won't be abused. But based on your logic, since any law can be abused, we must not have any laws.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by jfj123]

Originally posted by consigliere
reply to post by Night Star

 

'Star its a racist law.as i stated in a response to somone else this law allows for racial discrimination. if you "look illegal" you can be detained. now what constitutes "reasonable suspiscion"?,, a poncho,sunbrero, oh i got it, a mustache, no wait it has to be YOUR SKIN COLOR!!!! so the law 'Star,,, is biggoted,,,anyone supporting such a law,,,ergo,,must be a biggot.
you cant be mad at the worker and not the employer. they are just seeking the "american way of life" the employer is responsible,,,but with all of the corporate taxes, healthcare and other expenses,,,,survival dictates lower wages,,,will you work for what they do?,,,probably not,,,,im just sayin,,,you gotta look at it from other angles

The police will not stop someone simply because of the color of their skin. My husband could pass for mexican but he isn't. He would gladly show identification to any officer. I know we shouldn't have to be in this position but illegals have to be stopped somehow. It is way out of hand.

Of course we are mad at the employer who hires the illegals. The illegals are not just seeking the american way of life. There are mexicans now returning to mexico because they can't find full time employment here and say they will return when things pick up. It's in another thread I read earlier.

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
saw on the cnn ticker that the rhode island house speaker killed the illegal immigration bill in rhode island. sorry RI

[edit on 25-5-2010 by TheCoffinman]

First you make my day by starting this thread and now you're breaking my heart. I know, I know, it's not your fault.

Well they better come up with another plan and soon. I don't know if it was in that plan or another, but they were going to target the companies hiring the illegals. I am just crushed.

[edit on 25-5-2010 by Chance321]

Just saw on local news that Obama is sending 1200 national guard to the mexican border to increase security.

Originally posted by jfj123
Just saw on local news that Obama is sending 1200 national guard to the mexican border to increase security.

Does he really think that's going to change anybodys opinion of him?
Let's wait for the other shoe to drop, what's their rules for engagement going to be? Will he have them down there armed only with pamphlets to boycott Arizona? Will he let them detain illegals till Boarder Patrol arrives?
He's not doing this because he's seen the errors of his ways.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by nite owl
reply to post by GorehoundLarry

 

Was that radical enough for you. You show that picture because maybe you have an illegal in your home your protecting. If you have proper ID then what are you worried about? Proper ID , then you go on your merry way. ok.

I'm glad you brought that up.

I shouldn't have to be hiding an "illegal" in my home to be concerned about this. This bill violates many rights of actual legal citizens. Soon enough you will see that. If you don't, then many of us will.

Many Non Jews in WW2 showed their paper work to prove they're not Jewish and carried on their merry ways..while Jews got sent to camps or executed.

Sorry, But I won't stand down on this one. I won't defend such a violating and REPULSIVE bill that gives police a "right" to harass anyone and everyone.

I will not be part of your brainwashed herd.

I assure you of that, sir.

THis is exatcly why us LEGAL Americans hate this law it gives too much PULLOVER power to POLICE
The BILL says that there cannot be racial profiling
So basically the cops can pull you over
FOR NO REASON
because they want to check your migration status!!!
And I don't understand why some people just want to kick ALL illegals back over the border
NOBODY IN ATS can calculate the money it would take to transport 10 million + people
unless you want to make them walk
then you have to deal with another trail of tears....
I also don't understand this, "they took our jobs thing"
maybe these people don't have no jobs for a reason
Because JOSE is willing to work(even if he doesn't know english)
US Americans spend all our lives blaming other people for our own problems! Get a JOB JOE.

It is amazing all the whiny ass liberals that are complaining about Arizona n the way that those people have stood up n said, HEY! WE ARE FED UP WITH ALL OF THE BREAKING AND ENTERING OF OUR STATE N NOW WE GOING TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF JUST SITTING AROUND PLAYING PATTY-CAKE! Ever heard of Mexico's immigration laws, they make ours seem tame by comparison. Go to Mexico and burn their flag in public and see if some limp dick liberal will defend your right to do so. Why do they want to fly the Mexican flag here, yet they are willing to flee the very country that flag represents with the cloths on their backs, and risk their very lives doing it?

If I were to leave my country the way that they are leaving theirs , I'd be damned if I would ever fly the flag of a country that I felt that I had no choice but to leave. Arizona will most likely end up being a battle field in the true sense of the word before it's all over. Maybe if Mexico just became our 51st state, things would get better all the way around. It seems like there are more Mexicans here in the U.S. than there are in Mexico anyway.

reply to post by jfj123


Hell 123,,, your gettin me all warm and fuzzy!

Actually, i take my hat off to you sir.we aggreed to disagree,how delightfully refreshing.i sincerely apologize if i have said anything that you, or any other members have found to be offensive.its folks like yourself who truly make this site and country,,,a o k. thanks man!
now as far as the issue at hand,,,,im almost positive this subject will be touched on countless times, as the laws implementation and observence is carried out,,,so will argue some more later

Originally posted by Night Star

Originally posted by consigliere
reply to post by Night Star

 

The police will not stop someone simply because of the color of their skin. My husband could pass for mexican but he isn't. He would gladly show identification to any officer.

Oh yes they will 'Star.ive never been to China,but it DOES exist.so because YOU have not encountered predjudice,,,,dont ASSUME it doesnt exist. its very much alive and flourishing.
as you will soon see when RI adopts the law and your "could pass for Mexican" husbands rights,, as an AMERICAN CITIZEN are infringed upon and hes "gladly" showing his papers at any officers whim.

does something need to be done,,,,ABSOLUTELY,,,,but this is not a Cause Oriented solution,,,,its a ruse

reply to post by TheCoffinman


PLEASE PEOPLE !!!! WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!

EVERYONE LISTEN AND SPREAD THE WORD. The legislation to sign these bills is designed to cause protests and riots to give an excuse for a tighter marshall law then we already have! These large protests are being promoted by the very same people who enacted these laws. And when they saw how well and how big the riots were in AZ. They knew they had to get their own verison of the law to cause chaos and disorder. THIS IS THE TRUTH whether you like it or not. All disinformers refrain from lying or speaking about this unknowingly or untruthfully. DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS IN A NEGATIVE WAY, IF ALL STATES PROTEST ITS MARTIAL LAW FOR THIS NATION. MASS ARRESTS PROBABLE.

Originally posted by ziggy1706
i live in CT..wish CT would join this!

I live in California i wish the would do it too. Seriously LA is a SH*THOLE and its because that is where the majority of illegals live and they get in our schools without paying taxes and they are the reason we are in 40th place in states education because these people just come in and ruin it because they use the school for some type of daycare they don't want to learn anything, they refuse to speak english, and they won't change their culture. They expect everyone to conform to them. Basically most of the illegals are Mexicans who keep their culture when they come here and to them its their way or no way. The Mayor of LA is the biggest A$$HOLE alive. He is the biggest racist her has for years shown hatred to the Caucasian and African American people and always forces more Mexican Holidays. I hope that his boycott fails and that California will make this law. The illegals also take jobs away from legal immigrants that are willing to do the job to. So nobody say illegals do the jobs Americans won't because that isn't true, there are legal immigrants that would do anything to come legally to this country and work but because of all these illegals sneaking in, the legal ones can't get in. Throw these illegals out, legalize the Arizona law in California and arm the border. Stop with these unarmed soldiers that only can pretty much watch as people run across the border.

California needs the Arizona law... BADLY!!!

Originally posted by consigliere
terrorism(people of color),healthcare reform(IMO the uproar was regarding helping the downtrodden,,,which in this country is OVERWHELMINGLY colored" and now immigration(people of color)
so how am i or any other poster making this a racist issue,,,,will any white americans be effected?

Correlation does not equal causation. The fact that the terrorist in this case happened to be from the middle east, and hence were darker complected, is irrelevant. We did not call them terrorists because of their skin color. It was because they flew planes into things. Whites have a long and well documented history of making war on other whites. The fact that we went after the wrong country in retaliation is also not racist. Its economic. Our government saw a chance to justify something they had LONG wanted to do, and that was secure Iraq's oil for the wealthy oil interests that bribe...errr...fund their campaigns.

The fact that "people of color" are being affected most by this policy is due to the fact that "people of color" are overwhelmingly the ones in violation of immigration law. 81% come from Mexico and South America. In the UK, there is a lot of opposition to white immigrants from Poland and other poorer European countries. Historically, immigrants (legal ones) from Ireland and other countries also faced opposition.

This is not about skin color. And those who are insisting at the top of their lungs that it is, ARE the ones being racist. Because they are making the assumption that all people who are opposed to illegal immigration are white, and that whites opposed to illegal immigration can only be so because of racism.

When in fact, there are many non racially motivated reasons to not want people immigrating into your country illegally. Wolves, rats, birds, cats, and various other animals will drive off animals that look JUST LIKE THEM, when said other animals infringe on their territory and resources. Wars over resources happen among people who look JUST LIKE one another all the time.

Its just tired and old, and pathetic to take a complex subject like immigration and human behavior, and the economics behind it, and lump it all into one moronic cry of "Racism."

But what is even more pathetic is how many usually intelligent people are being led by their natural and righteous emotional distaste for ACTUAL racism to utterly and complety ignore the many very good and rational reasons to be opposed illegal immigration and to attempt to stem the flow of illegal immigration.








[edit on 26-5-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by supashiznet

I also don't understand this, "they took our jobs thing"
maybe these people don't have no jobs for a reason
Because JOSE is willing to work(even if he doesn't know english)
US Americans spend all our lives blaming other people for our own problems! Get a JOB JOE.

Obviously you're not aware of the realities of the situation.
It's obvious you think Americans are lazy and this is simply not true. But if a unscrupulous company has a choice between hiring a LEGAL person whom they must pay minimum wage, taxes on the person, book keeping for the person, etc... or an ILLEGAL person who they can pay cash and not worry about taxes or book keeping, they'll pay the illegal. OBVIOUSLY this is an unfair business practice for the illegal, for the legal person, for other businesses and for every tax payer in the country.

So before you go painting such this romantic picture of the honest, hard working ILLEGAL, think about the damage they can do to the entire country.

very disappointing

WASHINGTON — US National Guard troops being sent to the Mexican border will be used to stem the flow of guns and drugs across the frontier and not to enforce US immigration laws, the State Department said Wednesday.

The clarification came after the Mexican government urged Washington not to use the additional troops to go after illegal immigrants.

President Barack Obama on Tuesday authorized the deployment of up to 1,200 additional troops to border areas but State Department spokesman Philip Crowley told reporters, "It's not about immigration."

rawstory.com...

The part I really found interesting was

the Mexican government urged Washington not to use the additional troops to go after illegal immigrants.

Why would they do this? Do they want people illegally crossing into the US ?

Just saw on FOX 2 Detroit that Michigan farmers are upset about the proposed law that mirrors AZ's 1070 law.

Now get this!

Because it would scare away potential workers !

HUH?

So they're all but admitting that they hire illegals !

Wow !

reply to post by supashiznet


Please tell my brother in law that he can't get a job after being laid off. He went to company's that told him he was too expensive. All he wanted was minimum wage. Didn't want medical as his wife has insurance. But no the illegals got the job for 1/2 minimum. Went to a farm, same thing. Finally got a job at Home D. One of his duties is to run the illegal out of the main parking lot.