17 States Now Filing Versions of Arizona bill

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Our educational system rewards memorization, not thinking, not reasoning, and ass kissing and nepotism have as much or more to do with who rises and who falls in a given organization as intellect does.

No argument there. And it was the same way in the 50s when I was in grade school. The "good old days" is selective memory.

I was a disruption to the class because I wanted to discuss philosophy and real life issues. My brother had it even worse with an IQ above 150. He was reading the newspaper at 4. Even private school turned him down because they had no place for him.

Originally posted by Annee
Originally posted by jfj123

Let's be honest shall we?
If those farmers paid a legal wage, they would have all the workers they need. I hire Americans who do jobs as hard or harder then field picking, and I have people begging me for work...sometimes literally.

Have you ever done field picking?

Yes actually I have and jobs alot harder.

Do you know temps get up to 120 degrees?

It's not really the heat but the humidity that makes it so tough.

Do you honestly know how much field workers are paid?

Depends whether the employer is honest or dishonest.

I can tell you this is creating a black market. Where pickers used to be loyal to specific farmers - - they now go to who ever will pay the most. If a picker is really good/fast and can supervise - - it creates under-the-table black market cash wars.

Which is of course...ILLEGAL.

Oh I am sure many of the pickers are legitimate Americans. But only occasionally have I seen a "white" American in the fields. Usually a college kid on summer break.

And it's not because Americans are lazy but because employers want to hire illegals because they're easier to control and manipulate.

And again - - I am not against laws - - but in this case the picture is much much bigger.

Those with the mindset of "send every one back over the border and lock the border" - - - have no reality of "tomorrow".

Fair enough. Please explain.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


awesome post and very true !!!

I hire American workers only. I don't care what race, creed or color they are only that they are here LEGALLY. I pay the workers more then my competitors yet I'm doing fine. It does get a bit tough because I'm bidding against other companies who use illegals, don't pay taxes, don't pull permits, don't take into account proper safety practices, etc...

I appreciate people such as yourself who understand that we must keep our own house clean before cleaning our neighbors house..so to speak.

Thanks for the good posts !!!

reply to post by jfj123


I agree with the humidity thing.

I live in Missouri and have been out west. They were acting like they were dying in the temps of 100-120 there. To me it was nothing because they had little humidity. As long as you stay hydrated you were fine. But working in the higher humidity here vs. there is rough.

I would much rather work in 110 degrees there vs. 90 here any day.

Raist

reply to post by jfj123


I actually agree with you. And I was a business owner too.

Although - we did not have employees - we believe strongly in integrity and refused to do below standard work. Actually had more then one customer come in - - tell us how great we are - what great work we did - - - but they're going to the other guy because he's cheaper. They actually said "if you lower your price we will come back".

I'm just trying to be real. Black and White is not real.

Manufacturing jobs left America. Agriculture is on its way out too.

Being "Right" - - is not always "Right".

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by jfj123

 

I agree with the humidity thing.

I live in Missouri and have been out west. They were acting like they were dying in the temps of 100-120 there. To me it was nothing because they had little humidity. As long as you stay hydrated you were fine. But working in the higher humidity here vs. there is rough.

I would much rather work in 110 degrees there vs. 90 here any day.

Raist

Since this thread is basically about Arizona.

All I know is Arizona. We do have a monsoon season - - but that is not usually during harvest.

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by jfj123

 

I actually agree with you. And I was a business owner too.

Although - we did not have employees - we believe strongly in integrity and refused to do below standard work. Actually had more then one customer come in - - tell us how great we are - what great work we did - - - but they're going to the other guy because he's cheaper. They actually said "if you lower your price we will come back".

I'm just trying to be real. Black and White is not real.

Manufacturing jobs left America. Agriculture is on its way out too.

Being "Right" - - is not always "Right".

I've run into the same thing. I've lost customers myself because of the guys who use illegals. In the long run however, most come back because of quality, theft, etc....
Just as an example,
I bid on installing bathtub, ceramic tile surrounds for 6 houses going up at $2000.00 per surround. An illegal came in and bid $200.00 per surround and won the contract. I was called a week later to finish the remaining 5 at my price.
You're right that the world is not in black and white but we can't lose our country to save our country either.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by jfj123

 

I agree with the humidity thing.

I live in Missouri and have been out west. They were acting like they were dying in the temps of 100-120 there. To me it was nothing because they had little humidity. As long as you stay hydrated you were fine. But working in the higher humidity here vs. there is rough.

I would much rather work in 110 degrees there vs. 90 here any day.

Raist

Since this thread is basically about Arizona.

All I know is Arizona. We do have a monsoon season - - but that is not usually during harvest.

Are you saying that my post was off topic? If so please explain how so. If not I am not sure the point of your reply.

Raist

Originally posted by Raist


Are you saying that my post was off topic? If so please explain how so. If not I am not sure the point of your reply.

Raist

NO. I'm saying I don't know how things are in Missouri.

Arizona only has high humidity during a short monsoon season.

[edit on 29-5-2010 by Annee]

Originally posted by jfj123

You're right that the world is not in black and white but we can't lose our country to save our country either.

My brother was a contractor in Los Angeles. I know how that can be.

I'm a "Personal Responsibility - Buyer Beware - You Get What You Pay For" person. Calif sux sometimes because of so many laws - but at least if you go with a licensed contractor you have some recourse. Arizona - not so much.m

Anyway - - no one ever thought Motor City would become a manufacturing ghost town.

I'm just saying protect what we have by legal means. Don't be blind to the larger picture.

The more I read the discussions about Illegals, the more I learn how much of a NEGATIVE impact they are to this country. I cannot wait for them all to be GONE already. They are NOTHING BUT TROUBLE!!!

LEAVE ILLEGALS. Make it EASIER on yourselves and just LEAVE BEFORE WE THROW YOU OUT!!! GET OUT NOW!!

Originally posted by Annee

I'm just saying protect what we have by legal means. Don't be blind to the larger picture.

Good post.

I like what you're saying here !

just wanted to post some new info

with a 28-to-10 vote, the Senate came back Thursday and passed a sweeping measure that would toughen or expand rules that bar illegal immigrants from obtaining public health care, housing, and higher education benefits. It would set up hot lines for anonymous tips about illegal immigrants holding jobs and encourage the state attorney general to consult with the US Justice Department to enlist more state resources to halt illegal immigration.

www.boston.com...

The states are getting fed up !

Originally posted by jfj123
just wanted to post some new info

with a 28-to-10 vote, the Senate came back Thursday and passed a sweeping measure that would toughen or expand rules that bar illegal immigrants from obtaining public health care, housing, and higher education benefits. It would set up hot lines for anonymous tips about illegal immigrants holding jobs and encourage the state attorney general to consult with the US Justice Department to enlist more state resources to halt illegal immigration.

www.boston.com...

The states are getting fed up !

Way to go!!!! States are slowly growing back bones. I just wish we had a president with one.


[edit on 30-5-2010 by Chance321]

more info about how other countries control their borders.

outside.away.com...

The lush peaks of Iraqi Kurdistan are irresistible to a certain breed of bold backpacker: They're exotic, beautiful, and way off the beaten track. But when three young Americans were arrested by Iranian border guards last July after straying too far down a waterfall trail, the costs of adventure travel got a lot higher. As the hikers languished in their cells, we sent JOSHUA HAMMER to find out how they got into this mess—and what it would take to get them out.

locked in solitary confinement, subjected to frequent interrogations, and, with the exception of a few letters from home and two visits from Swiss diplomats, denied contact with the outside world.

last year on Roxana Saberi, or on Current TV journalists Laura Ling and Euna Lee—who strayed across North Korea's border from China in March 2009 and were sentenced to 12 years' hard labor before being granted amnesty two months later.

Australia
en.wikipedia.org...

Immigration policy has often been controversial - notably during the economic down-turn of the early 1990s when the Policy of mandatory detention of unauthorised immigration arrivals was established by the Australian Labor Party government of Paul Keating in 1992.

In 2006, the Labor Party under Kim Beazley took a stance against the importation of increasingly large numbers of temporary migrant workers ("foreign workers") by employers, arguing that this is simply a way for employers to drive down wages.

asylum seekers who arrive at Christmas Island will still also be detained for health and security checks and will also continue to be processed at Christmas Island.

Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard re-affirmed the Rudd Government's commitment to the policy: "We believe mandatory detention is necessary when people arrive unauthorised, for security reasons, in order to do health checks and in order to check identity, and we will continue to have a mandatory detention policy".

So why the big controversy when the US wants to enforce it's border policies?

If we would have enforced the laws we already had, we wouldn't be in such a mess. Now if we can come down hard on the employers who are hiring illegals we might get somewhere. We have to stop the anchor baby thing too. Then we can maybe start to fight the drug cartels.

Originally posted by LurkerMan
it would be nice to have california on that list as well, i could use a job.

its not so much of a long shot with meg whitman running for gov, were so broke they might just elect her.

and she pledges to give them the b00t.

Yup, they could always use a hand down in the fields picking fruit. Good to see you asserting yourself now.