Internet Censorship Continues Due to "Everybody Draw Mohammad Day"

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Of course they do, it is all designed to whip up anti-Islamic sentiments and inflame passions on both sides, while a war is ongoing, how could it not have something to do with the wars?

Because it has to do with people's reactions to islamic violence and death threats over images of mohammed.

By the way our press is heavily censored for national security reasons despite the fact that this is a democracy and making accusations that other nation's and people's press is less free, is a way to convince people that our press is free when it isn't.

Our press is also market-driven and media outlets report on Mrs. President's dress instead of important news. So what?

So much information is withheld from us it is not funny, and despite what you like to imagine of what we don't know can't hurt us, the truth is in fact withheld because it can hurt the people who are withholding the truth, that are in fact lining their pockets with our tax dollars, and killing our children.

I like to imagine what? What does this have to do with "draw mohammed day" or the internet censorship reference in the OP?

While you are worried about whether it's ok to draw to offensive cartoons?

Please, the truth is out there, and people who care look for it.

Okay. I keep asking you for this "truth" to support your claim that "draw mohammed day" is an organized manipulation scheme. Give me the direct evidence, please. Not bunk about holy wars and people stealing tax dollars and killing children.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
In reality most of the people who support the war are Evangelical Christians or Jews who make their own dislike of Islam which is usually replete with misrepresentations about the religion, as the main justification for the war.

This in fact makes it a Holy Crusade.

The evidence of all these things is out there and readily available to anyone who doesn't want to pretend these things aren't happening.

It's not surprising we can find writers who'll make such a claim. But they're propping the argument up on some disparate facts and the words of some wild general. And no, just because some religious fundamentalists support the war does not make it a holy crusade. If you believe occupying Iraq and Afghanistan is an effective way to go after islam I'd say you need to brush up your knoledge of military tactics.

Fair enough, you provided at least some support for your claim, dubious as i may be. Thank you. Now, back to the original claim.... show us how "draw mohammed day" is an organized conspiracy.

"respect is EARNED NOT GIVEN only in islam could drawing a picture of a man lead someone to be killed or beheaded"

So what you're saying is that Islam is a terrorist religion? It is not the religion itself so please watch what you say. I have studied Islam and it mainly supports peace. It seems the extremists are the ones who are influencing your opinion about Muslims in general.

"why get so easily offended? why threaten people with violence you cant hurt or kill an idea or freedom of expression"

Perhaps the problem doesn't lie in Drawing Muhammad itself rather how people used it to make bigoted remarks about how all Muslims are terrorists. That in turn only generated more death threats... How was that of any benefit?
Yes, you can't kill freedom of expression and death threats are a deplorable reaction.
Draw Muhammad is being celebrated as if Islam were the only barricade to free speech. As a journalist stated: That Draw Muhammad day is a short cut way of standing for liberty and truth" when the same values are in tatters in the West.

"and even if they kill people this time round (which I'm sure they'll try to) this is an annual event you cannot stop freedom of expression and it is futile to even try."

Hun, EXTREMISTS EXTREMISTS EXTREMISTS. Do not generalize.

"IMHO we should wipe out religion ALL KINDS with a mind bomb or something it makes no sense and is hindering mankinds progressive nature."

It doesn't make sense to YOU or me for that matter. But it does to others and gives them peace to have some faith. religion can teach one great things. So don't just look at its bad side.

Your argument says :I can say what i want, when i want and i don't care who it offends as opposed to not insulting someone based on who they are and what they stand for.

Cheers to you mate!

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Once again you have failed to display the actual threats.

The only thing that has been displayed as proof of threats in this thread was posted by another poster from a site that was clearly organized to deal with this issue, and only references peaceful protests on both sides.

You have utterly failed after multiple invitations to display the threats and violence and simply keep pretending that there are threats and violence, while steadfastly refusing to believe that you have been manipulated not by muslims, but by people with an anti-muslim agenda, who they like you, can not even demonstrate the threats and violence.

So in reality all I can assume is you wish to cling to illusions you yourself can not prove, while demanding a higher level of proof than you demand of yourself, and even once you are shown a higher level of proof regarding the parties who are clearly manipulating religious tensions you refuse to do any investigation on your own.

So in reality you aren't genuinely interested in anything that shatters your illusion, even while you can't provide any real evidence to support your illusion, even while others are providing real evidence that you have no evidence and evidence that much bigger things are at play, that cause others to manipulate these kinds of reactions and perspections from people like you.

Pretty silly if you ask me.

You can't actually prove your own position has merrit, and you can't actually open up your mind to investigate on your own the bigger picture even when people provide you real evidence of it and a direction to pursue.

I honestly don't think there is any way you can deflect away from that my friend, and frankly since you don't have any answers of your own, and aren't willing to investigate anything, all you are engaged in is an exercise in ego.

So once again, you haven't proved these threats or violence is what led to cartoon day, that was organized by people who weren't Islamic saying they wanted to counter threats of violence and violence you can't prove.

You weren't reacting to what Muslims did, you were reacting to people who weren't muslim who wanted you to react against muslims, and yes that's a conspiracy, whether you can piece it together or not.

Thanks.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Fair enough, you provided at least some support for your claim, dubious as i may be. Thank you. Now, back to the original claim.... show us how "draw mohammed day" is an organized conspiracy.

Well lets see it was an ORGANIZED EFFORT, to appeal to MASSES of people, to ACT in a PROSCRIPED WAY on a CERTAIN DATE AND TIME all of which CONSTITUTES A CONSPIRACY.

A conspiracy is evident when any level of premediation and forethought is used in creating a set of circumstances and outcome that involves more than one person.

Do you actually even read dictionaries?

What happens meets every definition of a conspiracy.

One that you have been duped into supporting.

By the way the tactic is not to win the wars, the tactic is to enslave people to debt through fighting protracted wars, that enrich the banks and the military industrial complex, by playing on their religious differences.

Are you sure you are a drummer?

You sure don't seem to understand building block and foundational principles.

Do you play each song in a random way? Do you just throw in random accents?

Versus lead to Choruses for a reason my friend.

Life is art.

Don't be afraid to figure that out, and no, Cartoon Day was not a random spontaneous thing either, it was done with forethought, pre-planning, coordination, and publicity, leading up to a culminating event and that is what a conspiracy is.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Once again you have failed to display the actual threats.

Why would I need to? Not only is it all over the news, they've been posted on this site consistently, including one last week where the writer was attacked at a press conference, the South Park death threat which included photos of a murdered filmmaker, etc.

Are we expected to believe this is all part of this alleged conspiracy to maniuplate us against disliking muslims or something?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Well lets see it was an ORGANIZED EFFORT, to appeal to MASSES of people, to ACT in a PROSCRIPED WAY on a CERTAIN DATE AND TIME all of which CONSTITUTES A CONSPIRACY.

Oh, I see. Time to move the goalposts. So it was not a huge religious, judeo-christian, military industrial complex manipultion conspiracy, it was just "organized" so technically that makes it a conspiracy.

One that you have been duped into supporting.

I don't support it, nor was I duped, nor did I participate in it. I have simply taken the position that it was not an organized conspiracy as you originally claimed and detailed some reasoning behind the public participation in the event.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Once again you have failed to display the actual threats.

Why would I need to? Not only is it all over the news, they've been posted on this site consistently, including one last week where the writer was attacked at a press conference, the South Park death threat which included photos of a murdered filmmaker, etc.

Are we expected to believe this is all part of this alleged conspiracy to maniuplate us against disliking muslims or something?

South Park?

Wow! Now there is a real Deny Ignorance Source, so in other words you want to cling to the illusion that there is information of this all over the news without providing one actual factual account from the news that this is in fact occuring?

Once again you demand a level of proof from others you refuse to adhere to in making your own claims??

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

Oh, I see. Time to move the goalposts. So it was not a huge religious, judeo-christian, military industrial complex manipultion conspiracy, it was just "organized" so technically that makes it a conspiracy.

Actually its time to lower the bar for people who don't even know the definition of words like conspiracy, so that they can learn what is a conspiracy regardless of the motive of a conspiracy.

Once again its a building block thing, where a person has to have foundational rudimentrary knowledge to build anything more advanced on top of.

I am wasting my time discussing triplettes and paradiddles with you if you don't even know how to use quarter notes.

So yes, if our discussion is going to be a fruitful one, then educating you in the rudiments becomes vital to getting you to the point where you have a real foundational level of knowledge that more advanced levels can be built upon.

Clearly you don't understand what the word conspiracy even means, or even how to idenitify one at the base, so logic would dictate you first understanding what constitutes a conspiracy.

You are denying a conspiracy, while ever ellement of a conspiracy is evident.

So you either don't know what conspiracy means or you are in denial.

Cartoon Day is/was a conspiracy and while you deny it, based on wishful thinking you are in fact denying it in absence of considering what the word conspiracy even means, and that every ellement to a conspiracy is actually evident in Cartoon Day.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
South Park?

Wow! Now there is a real Deny Ignorance Source, so in other words you want to cling to the illusion that there is information of this all over the news without providing one actual factual account from the news that this is in fact occuring?

Once again you demand a level of proof from others you refuse to adhere to in making your own claims??

You can do your own google searches. I gave you some hints on where to start looking

Or you can remain in denial that there are real threats, violence and murders occurring over media radical muslims find offensive - then pretend it's a huge conspiracy.

No need for me to find links for you on a hotbed issue since 2006.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually its time to lower the bar for people who don't even know the definition of words like conspiracy, so that they can learn what is a conspiracy regardless of the motive of a conspiracy.

No offense but that is lame. You claimed some specific elements involved in an alleged conspiracy, then when pressed for details you resorted to a dictionary definition of "conspiracy" to save face.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

I don't support it, nor was I duped, nor did I participate in it. I have simply taken the position that it was not an organized conspiracy as you originally claimed and detailed some reasoning behind the public participation in the event.

Which is ludicrous since it was preplanned and organized and coordinated amongst many people which is the very definition of the word conspiracy.

Do you really imagines it serves you well debating the substance of an issue that utilize and center on words you don't even know the definitions of?

Your position is one arrived at by ignoring the facts that it was pre-planned, organized, and coordinated to do a certain thing on a certain date in time for a certain purpose with the desire to achieve a certain outcome.

Since all of these things are the very definition of what the word conspiracy means how you could arrive at the position it wasn't a conspiracy is not rooted in any logic or fact whatsoever.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Since all of these things are the very definition of what the word conspiracy means how you could arrive at the position it wasn't a conspiracy is not rooted in any logic or fact whatsoever.

See the above post about lameness...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
South Park?

Wow! Now there is a real Deny Ignorance Source, so in other words you want to cling to the illusion that there is information of this all over the news without providing one actual factual account from the news that this is in fact occuring?

Here's the article about the threats made against Trey Parker and Matt Stone, creators of South Park.

South Park censored after threat of fatwa over Muhammad episode

The censorship followed a warning from a New York-based group of extremist Muslim converts that could be construed as a death threat. The group, through its website Revolutionmuslim.com, had reacted to last week's episode of South Park which first depicted Muhammad dressed as a bear by saying its originators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker, "will probably wind up like Theo van Gogh".

What happened to Thro van Gogh you ask?

Murder of Theo van Gogh

Bouyeri murdered Van Gogh in the early morning of 2 November 2004, in Amsterdam, in front of the Amsterdam East borough office, while he was bicycling to work. Bouyeri shot van Gogh eight times with a handgun, and Van Gogh died on the spot. Bouyeri then cut Van Gogh's throat, nearly decapitating him, and stabbed him in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one attaching a five-page note to his body. The note threatened Western governments, Jews and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who went into hiding). The note also contained references to the ideologies of the Egyptian organization Takfir wal-Hijra.

And Just for the hell of it, here's the note:

Source

BAPTISED IN BLOOD (English translation)
So this is my final word…
Riddled with bullets…
Baptised in blood…
As I had hoped.
I am leaving a message…
For you…the fighter…
The tree of Tawheed is waiting…
Yearning for your blood…
Enter the bargain…
And Allah opens the way…
He gives you the Garden…
Instead of the earthly rubble.
To the enemy I have something to say…
You will surely die…
Wherever in the world you go…
Death is waiting for you…
Chased by the knights of DEATH…
Who paint the streets with Red.
For the hypocrites I have one final word…
Wish DEATH or hold your tongue and …sit.
Dear brothers and sisters, my end is nigh…
But this certainly does not end the story.

That's about all the info that I can garner on the death threats to the creators of South Park. That did happen, it's been documented. It's not opinion. Show me the unbiased proof that draw Mohammad day is a deliberate ploy to further the Judeo-Christian agenda in the Middle East. I anxiously await your answer.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually its time to lower the bar for people who don't even know the definition of words like conspiracy, so that they can learn what is a conspiracy regardless of the motive of a conspiracy.

No offense but that is lame. You claimed some specific elements involved in an alleged conspiracy, then when pressed for details you resorted to a dictionary definition of "conspiracy" to save face.

You need to make up your mind, when you are provided with evidence of a greater conspiracy you cry it's off topic.

Then alternatively you demand evidence of a greater conspiracy, when you aren't even aware of what constitutes a conspiracy by definition in the first place.

Are you capable of a consistent debate, with consistent rules to it, or do you just want to hop from one lilly pad to the next to avoid the facts that you are doing a tremendously poor job of speaking too.

You have provided no sources that there was any level of violence or threats that created a spontaneous outpouring of public indignation.

Yes there are some commercial artists whose commercial endeavors thrive on plublicity and controversy that they create, that's called marketing friend.

Hype usually does not live up to what is being hyped.

Hyping a situation for attention, which was done by people with a commercial interest in gaining attention for profit and noteriety is not the same as the Galloping Horde of Huns at Rome's gates.

You haven't even displayed that the Hype is rooted in fact.

No one has.

Highly commercialized efforts like South Park are not sources of valid jouranlistic information, but hype and scandal and satire aimed at people with a very low entertainment threshhold.

If you can't understand the basic rudiments of what's going on there is no way you could understand the more intricate delicacies involved either.

You might want to consider putting your ego aside and taking a little time to frame a clear, and consistent argument based on some real identifiable and verifyable facts, to substantiate your opinion and perspective.

So far you have utterly failed to do any of those things.

Thanks.

reply to post by dontblink


Wow one instance of a lone gunman to paint and tar 1.6 billion people with.

Has it ever even been proven in a court he wasn't an agent of a group or organization trying to manipulate public sentiment by doing this.

Has any examination been made as to if anyone else had a motive to kill the person?

How do 1.6 billion people become guilty of the act of one man?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


www.youtube.com...

According to you this is a "Peaceful protest" ha don't make me laugh do you know people were in that embassy when it was on fire try telling me no-one was hurt in that "freedom of expression" you're just digging a bigger hole to bury yourself in, if ever there was a religious apologist hiding behind the guise of an "agnostic" it would be you.

reply to post by dontblink


By the way none of your sources actually mention what the artistic work was that caused one man to react so to him.

Maybe we should exterminate all English/Irish people because John Hinkley shot John Lennon?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
You need to make up your mind, when you are provided with evidence of a greater conspiracy you cry it's off topic.

Here's your original claim:

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Here in lies the conspiracy, it is Christian, and Jewish fundamentalists who are trying to provoke a greater confrontation to lead to an even greater Holy Crusade beyond those currently being waged in Afghanistan and Iraq, and these groups are being prodded to do this by the Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel that finances and profits off of the debt that war creates.

I asked you to support this claim, not demonstrate that it was simply organized and therefore constitutes a conspiracy.

Show me how the "Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel" prodded Christian and Jewish fundamentalists into "draw mohammed day" in order to further a holy crusade.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


So you can't actually display any source of information of violence then that supports your claims.

Very good then.

And you still haven't been able to determine what the word conspiracy means?

Very good then.

So you want me to entertain you about things you haven't even displayed the ability to grasp the base rudiments of then?

That you wouldn't even be able to recognize as a conspiracy because you don't even know what the word conspiracy means?

Alrighty then.

When you display you actually are interested in quality and objective discussion and want to discuss the conspiracy please let me know.

Thanks.