Internet Censorship Continues Due to "Everybody Draw Mohammad Day"

Originally posted by rationaluser

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

And people also react where there is a bunch of actual drama and spectacle, such as violence and murders.

Who though has in fact been violently killed for drawing cartoons of Mohamed?

How is antagonizing people further actually going to curtail these undocumented and alledged incidents of violence and murder?



[edit on 23/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Wow son are you reluctant to google or are you technologically inept
web.archive.org...://www.cartoonbodycount.com/ read until you weep Oh and last i checked agnosticism was still the belief in god or rather a fence sitters version ... make up your mind

Congradulations you have posted a link to an expired web page, that says absolutely nothing except that it's an expired web page.

Maybe if you spent a little less effort on failed attempts to be insulting towards others and a little more effort on bringing something of substance to the debtate?

ATS is a discussion board aimed at congenial discussion between members with a aim towards learning things.

So far the only thing I have learned from your posts is that they lack any real topical substance and facts.

By the way not being religious doesn't really help an individual if they are still going to fall victim to the propaganda the religiously minded with religiously minded agendas put out.

I am still waiting for violence directly linked to people writing or even drawing things that are offensive to Muslims.

Thanks.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Bad analogy. A death threat is not comparable to drawing a picture.

I thought your line of argument was based on freedom of speech ? If so, it's evidently a correct analogy.
You can't pick and choose free speech; either it's free or it's curtailed speech.

If free speech is curtailed ( as it evidently is in regards to death threats ) then people can't really get on their high horse in regards to free speech/expression on any other matter ( eg. cartoons of the prophet Mohammad ).

It seems the real motive behind this is to cause offence under the pretext of ''defending free speech''.









[edit on 24-5-2010 by Conspiracy Chicks fan !]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Here in lies the conspiracy, it is Christian, and Jewish fundamentalists who are trying to provoke a greater confrontation to lead to an even greater Holy Crusade beyond those currently being waged in Afghanistan and Iraq, and these groups are being prodded to do this by the Military Industrial Complex and the Banking Cartel that finances and profits off of the debt that war creates.

Proof, or it's something you're making up. That simple.

Show us that "draw mohammed day" is as you've described above...

Actually the fact that no one I have asked to display solid evidence of real time, real world violence against anyone who has drawn cartoons or written in ways that are not flattering to Islam has been able to display or speak to any such thing, displays a group of people tilting at windmills Don Quixote style.

Someone has obviously gone ahead and inflamed passions based on an absence of actual facts, causing those so manipulated to believe that things that have not occured are fact, and that would be a conspiracy, and conspiracies are about motive and opportunity.

The ATS motto is Deny Ignorance, not ATS A Place for Hate Speach.

So far through your own silence as a response to direct questions you have admitted that:

No Muslim has personally threatened you and that you aren't aware of anyone who has actually suffered the violence that you are claiming you are trying to counter, and trying to counter through confrontational acts that typically would lead to ill feelings and disagreement that you supposedly loathe in others when they act in that way.

The truth is that the Islamic World has less power to censor your freedom of speech and freedom of the press, than our own government does for National Security Concerns, and yes while many religious sects frown on things that they consider blasphemous people like Obama Information Czar Cass Sunstein would like to censor and manipulate every thing on the Internet that deviates from the Government's position on a topic.

Refusing to believe you are being manipulated and not being manipulted are two entirely different things.

Conversely Oliver North was very much selling arms to Iran in Exchange for Western Hostages in Lebanon, and taking those proceeds to fund the Nigaraguan Contras and using those proceeds to smuggle Cocaine into the country to keep funding buying more arms, even though you didn't know about it at the time.

It took Congressional Investigators with all the tools at their disposal (presumably considerably more than the ones at yours) years to unravel it all and expose it. However it very much was going on and effecting people in absence of all the details about it.

In this world what you don't know will in fact potentially kill you, and so far your answers to some very probing questions on how you have arrived at your position and perspective display that you don't know much if anything at all except some very wide based generalizations and stereotypes you wish to apply in mass to the largest slice of people on the face of the earth.

So while you are insisting you can't consider doing anything else in absence of congressional like findings, you can't actually even display factually or honestly why you are doing what you are doing?

Not much of a scientifc standard there friend.

I am going to be rich when I invent the firefox add-on that blocks user specified content and is programed to learn exactly what you hate, so that it can suggest other content that you might also hate, and allow you to block it.

First I will have to find out how to get people to actually pay for web software.


-It's not up to the website to block it's user generated content, it's up to the browser owner.
-This has nothing to do with children and censoring to provide age appropriate material.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So far through your own silence as a response to direct questions you have admitted that:

No Muslim has personally threatened you and that you aren't aware of anyone who has actually suffered the violence that you are claiming you are trying to counter, and trying to counter through confrontational acts that typically would lead to ill feelings and disagreement that you supposedly loathe in others when they act in that way.

A strawman distraction scheme isn't going to replace the lack of evidence for the type of conspiracy you claimed was behind "draw mohammed day".

Refusing to believe you are being manipulated and not being manipulted are two entirely different things.

Claiming there's a widespread manipulation conspiracy and being able to prove it are two different things also. Stomping your feet and insisting that it must be is simply not evidence.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Chicks fan !
I thought your line of argument was based on freedom of speech ? If so, it's evidently a correct analogy.
You can't pick and choose free speech; either it's free or it's curtailed speech.

Death threats against the president is not a protected form of free speech.

Bad analogy.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


However you haven't presented any evidence that displays people aren't being manipulated by way of presenting evidence that what they are reacting to is in fact real.

The truth is you are using two different evidentiary standards, the Great Randy Skeptic's when it is something you don't share an opinion or belief on, and no standard at all when it comes to displaying how you have arrived at your opinions and what you believe.

So in reality when you are using two mutually exclusive and opposite sets of standards you are in fact employing selective reasoning to arrive at an opinion, that you want to hold as fact, unless someone can meet a higher evidentiary threshhold than you will use on yourself.

Which means that all you have is an opinion and not fact, and while everyone is entitled to an opinion, opinions are not facts.

I can respect that other people have an opinion, I can't though respect when they purport their opinion is a fact.

So in essence all you are complaining about is others doing what you yourself do when it comes to proferring opinion as fact.

Discounting motive and opportunity and who profits off of confrontation to be a pawn ripe for emotional exploitation is in fact not a scientific approach to situational awareness.

You need not look far to see who profits the most off of tension and violence between the religious minded.

The fact that you aren't looking at all? Well that just makes silly things like drawing cartoons of Mohamed part of the problem and not part of the solution.

It's one thing to stand up for the sake of defiance alone when someone tells you to sit down, but when you stand up for the sake of defiance alone, when someone else tells you someone else has told you to sit down, that is in fact manipulation, and evidence of a conspiracy all in and of itself.

I guess there are some things that the Great Randy has failed to teach you to date?

You have an opinion, as I have an opinion.

As far as I can see the only thing standing in your way of learning more is your own ego, and that's not a very scientific method, and employing one standard for your own opinions, while employing another standard for other's opinions is not very scientific either.

Thanks!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

However you haven't presented any evidence that displays people aren't being manipulated by way of presenting evidence that what they are reacting to is in fact real.

*Sigh.* Are you really asking me to prove a negative?

Best I can do for you is once again point out that this was a viral internet meme originating from a Seattle cartoonist. It's up to you to provide the evidence to support your claim that this was a religious, judeo-christian, military industrial complex manipulation scheme (or whoever - you covered a lot of bases).

And nice try with implying I had a double standard in play but I didn't make the unsupported claim of conspiracy, you did, and requiring evidence to support it should be expected. You didn't even provide the most basic connect-the-dots scheme for it; you just keep insisting there's some huge conspiracy. Fine then, believe it, it won't affect me a bit. But as I said before, if you can't get beyond this unsupported belief I doubt we'll make any progress on this topic. Thanks for the discussion though, it's been fun.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Really it hasn't effected you a bit? The nation is 14,000,000,000,000.00 in debt because of wars in the Middle East that are thinly disguised Holy Crusades and this is not effecting you?

Really?

If you think that's not a conspiracy????



Please don't quit your day job to become a private detective!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Really it hasn't effected you a bit? The nation is 14,000,000,000,000.00 in debt because of wars in the Middle East that are thinly disguised Holy Crusades and this is not effecting you?

Really?

If you think that's not a conspiracy????

Please don't quit your day job to become a private detective!

"dont quit your day job to become a private detective" spend all day on ATS... Good advice oh and next time a link doesn't work CHECK THE URL or GOOGLE IT it was missing a semi colon jack of all trades master of none me thinks web.archive.org...

[edit on 24-5-2010 by rationaluser]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by rationaluser]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by rationaluser]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Really it hasn't effected you a bit? The nation is 14,000,000,000,000.00 in debt because of wars in the Middle East that are thinly disguised Holy Crusades and this is not effecting you?

Really?

If you think that's not a conspiracy????

For one thing, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are a different topic than "draw mohammed day". Two, I don't think any reasonable person would make the mistake that those wars are holy war crusades against islam.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The nation is 14,000,000,000,000.00 in debt because of wars in the Middle East that are thinly disguised Holy Crusades and this is not effecting you?
Please don't quit your day job to become a private detective!

I would say the nation is in debt because of wars in the middle east that were thinly disguised resource graps and exercises in power projection. A holy crusade? really? Show me the evidence.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by dontblink]

reply to post by rationaluser


Wow Cartoon Body Count dot com! Now that has to be an unbiased site of the highest journalistic integrity, that in fact talks about peaceful protests by both sides of this issue without any violence or murder at all.

So once again, where are the deaths and violence? Your own source which is a site dedicated to nothing but this issue doesn't actually display one violent incident, just people utilizing freedom of speech on both sides to protest against the other sides.

Most of the links on the site don't work by the way.

So once again, you are failing to display that people are dying or being hurt over this issue.

The only casuality seems to be a politician in Europe who resigned over the issue.

Wow one less politician in the world, that's something to greive about.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Really it hasn't effected you a bit? The nation is 14,000,000,000,000.00 in debt because of wars in the Middle East that are thinly disguised Holy Crusades and this is not effecting you?

Really?

If you think that's not a conspiracy????

For one thing, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are a different topic than "draw mohammed day". Two, I don't think any reasonable person would make the mistake that those wars are holy war crusades against islam.

Except of course for George Bush who stated "God told me to attack Iraq in the Rose Garden" who then had daily breifings with Bible Quotations added by the Pentagon Planners who prepared the reports. Not to mention the Evangelical Zionist Christian Community who spent millions providing Christian Coloring Books and Prayer Cards in back to school packs for the Iraqi children, not to mention the telescopic rifle scope company that includes a religious psalm on all their rifle scopes sold to the U.S. army and used in the war zone.

Let us forget too the fact that the Bib Laden family and the Bush family are the principle stock holders in the Carlysle Group that has under it's umbrella hundreds of high tech military equipment manufactures who have made trillions off of the war in Afghanistan.

Really you don't see a conspiracy or you just refuse to investigate the conspiracy.

You don't need the dots drawn out for you, you need a genuine desire to better understand your own environment so you can draw out the dots for you.

The evidence is out there in such an abundance the only people who don't want to investigate it and consider it, or either in denial or religious xenephobes and bigots.

I guess ATS needs schills too. Thanks for posting.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The evidence is out there in such an abundance the only people who don't want to investigate it and consider it, or either in denial or religious xenephobes and bigots.

I guess ATS needs schills too. Thanks for posting.

Oh, come on now. No need to go there.

Sure, Bush is a religious nut, christians influenced some schoolbooks and some contractor made rifle scopes with a religious imprint. But to call these wars "crusades" or holy wars is nonsensical, especially citing those things as reasons. I guess because the army has chaplains, that also makes these holy wars? Come on.

Let's not get off point though. These wars have nothing to do with "draw mohammed day", or the conspiracy surrounding it that you've alleged.

Originally posted by dontblink

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

The nation is 14,000,000,000,000.00 in debt because of wars in the Middle East that are thinly disguised Holy Crusades and this is not effecting you?
Please don't quit your day job to become a private detective!

I would say the nation is in debt because of wars in the middle east that were thinly disguised resource graps and exercises in power projection. A holy crusade? really? Show me the evidence.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by dontblink]

Is Bush's War on Evildoers a Holy Crusade?
The signs of a holy war are undeniably present.

George W. Bush has used the word "Crusade" to describe his war against the people he calls "evildoers." Bush clearly believes that the United States of America is a Christian nation, and that the government should be used to promote Christian religious projects.

General Wesley Clark reports in his latest book that the White House has drawn up a list of exclusively Muslim nations to target as enemies over the next four years (Afghanistan, Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and the Sudan - two down, six to go).

Bush says that he's fighting against terrorism everywhere, yet refuses to touch Christian terrorist groups, even those that are organizing within the United States. Bush seems only interested in fighting Muslim terrorists.

In Iraq, a government-paid chaplain has been baptizing American soldiers as Christians in exchange for giving them water to take showers.

Now, it has been discovered that one of Bush's top generals in his wars against evildoers, General William G. Boykin, believes that these wars are being fought against Satan himself. In public, this military officer and aide to Bush insists that the mission of the American military is to defeat Islam in the name of Christianity. So far, the Bush White House has refused to distance itself from Boykin's claim, and defends Boykin's appropriation of the American military for religious purposes as "free speech".

IrregularTimes.com

‘Jesus Rifles’ Sold to U.S. Military Spark Complaints of Holy Crusade ChattahBox)—Holy, holy war! According to a report by ABC news, a Michigan-based weapons company specializing in high-powered scopes for rifles produces its instruments of death based on biblical principles. The company stamps each scope with a coded reference to passages from the New Testament and the books of Revelation. The company’s “Jesus rifles” are used by soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. And critics of the Jesus rifles say they not only violate the military’s rules against religious proselytizing, but they also give the dangerous impression that soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting against jihadists, are waging a holy war against insurgents.

Chattabox.com

The Bush Crusade
by James Carroll

At the turn of the millennium, the world was braced for terrible things. Most "rational" worries were tied to an anticipated computer glitch, the Y2K problem, and even the most scientifically oriented of people seemed temporarily at the mercy of powerful mythic forces. Imagined hobgoblins leapt from hard drives directly into nightmares. Airlines canceled flights scheduled for the first day of the new year, citing fears that the computers for the traffic-control system would not work. The calendar as such had not previously been a source of dread, but all at once, time itself held a new danger. As the year 2000 approached, I bought bottled water and extra cans of tuna fish. I even withdrew a large amount of cash from the bank. Friends mocked me, then admitted to having done similar things. There were no dances-of-death or outbreaks of flagellant cults, but a millennial fever worthy of medieval superstition infected the most secular of cultures. Of course, the mystical date came and went, the computers did fine, airplanes flew and the world went back to normal.

Then came September 11, 2001, the millennial catastrophe-just a little late. Airplanes fell from the sky, thousands died and an entirely new kind of horror gripped the human imagination. Time, too, played its role, but time as warped by television, which created a global simultaneity, turning the whole human race into a witness, as the awful events were endlessly replayed, as if those bodies leaping from the Twin Towers would never hit the ground. Nightmare in broad daylight. New York's World Trade Center collapsed not just onto the surrounding streets but into the hearts of every person with access to CNN. Hundreds of millions of people instinctively reached out to those they loved, grateful to be alive. Death had shown itself in a new way. But if a vast throng experienced the terrible events of 9/11 as one, only one man, the President of the United States, bore a unique responsibility for finding a way to respond to them.

George W. Bush plumbed the deepest place in himself, looking for a simple expression of what the assaults of September 11 required. It was his role to lead the nation, and the very world. The President, at a moment of crisis, defines the communal response. A few days after the assault, George W. Bush did this. Speaking spontaneously, without the aid of advisers or speechwriters, he put a word on the new American purpose that both shaped it and gave it meaning. "This crusade," he said, "this war on terrorism."

CommonDreams.com

In reality most of the people who support the war are Evangelical Christians or Jews who make their own dislike of Islam which is usually replete with misrepresentations about the religion, as the main justification for the war.

This in fact makes it a Holy Crusade.

The evidence of all these things is out there and readily available to anyone who doesn't want to pretend these things aren't happening.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
The evidence is out there in such an abundance the only people who don't want to investigate it and consider it, or either in denial or religious xenephobes and bigots.

I guess ATS needs schills too. Thanks for posting.

Oh, come on now. No need to go there.

Sure, Bush is a religious nut, christians influenced some schoolbooks and some contractor made rifle scopes with a religious imprint. But to call these wars "crusades" or holy wars is nonsensical, especially citing those things as reasons. I guess because the army has chaplains, that also makes these holy wars? Come on.

Let's not get off point though. These wars have nothing to do with "draw mohammed day", or the conspiracy surrounding it that you've alleged.

Of course they do, it is all designed to whip up anti-Islamic sentiments and inflame passions on both sides, while a war is ongoing, how could it not have something to do with the wars?

By the way our press is heavily censored for national security reasons despite the fact that this is a democracy and making accusations that other nation's and people's press is less free, is a way to convince people that our press is free when it isn't.

So much information is withheld from us it is not funny, and despite what you like to imagine of what we don't know can't hurt us, the truth is in fact withheld because it can hurt the people who are withholding the truth, that are in fact lining their pockets with our tax dollars, and killing our children.

While you are worried about whether it's ok to draw to offensive cartoons?

Please, the truth is out there, and people who care look for it.