Europeans have just joined a new country, Euroland is born.

Originally posted by rhinoceros
EU actually became a lot more democratic after the treaty of Lisbon as it gave a lot more power to the people (the EU parliament).

It sure did.. On top of that, it also gave voting and veto rights to member state parliaments for pan EU decisions..

99% of things in the EU are now voted on or signed off on by someone who was elected democratically..

Originally posted by rhinoceros
reply to post by alienesque

 

1. EU actually became a lot more democratic after the treaty of Lisbon as it gave a lot more power to the people (the EU parliament).

2.You don't like what they're doing? Vote someone else the next time..

[edit on 19-5-2010 by rhinoceros]

1..a treaty they brought in by ignoring democratic votes..as they ALWAYS have done..
2..you seem to think you know who i voted for last time?

Originally posted by alienesque
1..a treaty they brought in by ignoring democratic votes..as they ALWAYS have done..

Touche..

I was always pissed off with the EU for bypassing the democratic process with the Lisbon treaty until I heard this quote from Winston Churchill..

"The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"..

And the man had a point..

Great things never come about as a result of the Democratic process.. The Democratic process needs to be built in afterwards..

And I have come to see the unification of Europe as a great thing over the past couple of years..

Euroland? Couldn't they come up with a better name? What's wrong with the name "Europe?"

And the name Euro? What kind of name for currency is that? How about Frarkliseta or Lirsetamarnc?

Euro? Sounds like it was named by a bunch of Chinese.

Besides. The nations of Europe should've been against this from the start. The Europeans are slowly going to lose their individual identities to an organization who doesn't give one snot about them.

No more Franc. No more Mark. No more Lira. No more Pesata.

Next, it'll be only one language on the European continent. It'll be done for the good of unification.



[edit on 19/5/10 by Intelearthling]

C'mon Dermo.....?

Your telling me that you believe that the 'democratically elected' barstewards in the EU Parliament (that isnt a parliament because its not a country) are more capable of acting honourably, than that current load of lying, thieving, corrupt toads who are supposed to be looking after OUR interests in our home parliaments? Thats in both the Dáil Éireann or the UK of course...

Now we kinda get a sniff of the power that the 'lobbyists' (should that be bribe offerers?) wield at home, can you imagine whats offered when the MEP's are away from home?

I cant believe that Ireland opted in at that last vote, after comprehensively saying NO in the previous one. Only to find in only a few months that things arent looking too rosy in the euro garden.

We have just witnessed the greatest bank robbery in history, confident in the fact that they had gotten away with it, they came back for the pensions, savings, piggy banks...you name it! And it aint over by a long shot.

An elephant in the room for me is something I never hear mentioned in the news or on here, INSURANCE ! You would reasonably expect them to have 'invested' the money in something solid, they know your going to come back for it sometime, unlike hedge funds that can go round and round.

So how much did the pension/insurance companies lose in the robbery?
And how much is left in the pot to pay out when things get lumpy in the days ahead? These poeple have no problem just stating flatly that your getting nothing...remember the HSBC fiasco in south america when people couldnt get THEIR money?

Im not advocating mass rebelion, or buying shack in the woods full of brown rice & sh!t paper....just keep an eye on the ball for a while?

Peace!

[edit on 19-5-2010 by Tie No Bows!]

reply to post by Intelearthling


Euroland was the name the Think-tank came up with. Not any official name.

reply to post by Tie No Bows!


Keep your governments accountable, your leaders, your representatives. If you are not gonna do that, don't complain. Western government are the most dictatorial governments in the world, probably worse than China, with the difference of fake reality which has been built to let people think they have a say.

What say? 4 years of dictatorship is no better than 100 years.

Western people should do what the Taliban did, saw what happened the last corrupt puppet of Afghanistan. He got tortured and hanged in public.

Originally posted by Tie No Bows!
C'mon Dermo.....?

Hello

When did I ever say that? IMO A politician is a politician no matter where you go.. As fallible and corrupt as anyone else, even more so with power.. Noone appreciates their government.. Be it a local, national, federal or supranational..

I was simply pointing out facts.. And easily researchable at that..

And also, as I have stated hundreds of times on this site, I dislike as much about the EU as I like about it and if some one was trying to make out that everything it did was great, I would cut them down to size.. It just happens that recently, all my comments have gone the opposite direction..

And biggest bank robbery in history? You would be saying something different if you woke up tomorrow and your bank was illiquid and savings/deposits gone because of a EU wide crash as a result of the EURO failing.. Would you be blaming the governments for not giving a bailout then? I think you would..

Also, if our countries went bankrupt, who would pay all these pensions? Amenities? Public workers? Yes, the situation would be worst than it currently is for them now.. Thats simple economics.. But people would rather bitch about public spending cuts instead of realizing that if you live beyond your means, you have to pay the price.. Thats also simple economics.

While I appreciate your opinion, EU politics are one of my big hobbies and I have my eye on the ball in regards them and know substantially more on the subject than 99.999% of people on this site.. But the thing that gets me a lashback here is that I look at it objectively with no emotion or nationalism attached.. But that kind of reasoning can be frowned upon.

reply to post by Dermo


Point taken D!

Im of the opinion that we should have given them nothing, yes it would have been very hard, but we would have cleared out a lot caca!

Or would we?....
The same mind set would be around, gagging to take control once more, hard to say what action would be the best on reflection.

I laugh when everything is mentioned in terms of financial cost, the 'market' , the 'economy', just another gambling casino as far as I can see.
Do people honestly believe that each EU member gets out more than they put in ? Doubt it...undoubtedly some poorer countries will...for a while, till the puppet masters milk all else of value, then that show ends and the caravan rolls on.

Short of a revolution, this is bound to continue for quite a while yet and theres little we can do about it.

Peace!

reply to post by Tie No Bows!




Overall its such an awkward situation to be in..

Noone's answers on how to solve it will be entirely correct.. But letting the whole thing collapse would have created a pretty messed up situation as well..

Life and democracy have never actually been fair, people seem to think it was better "before".. Before when? Before we got the internet and could find out we were always been lied to? We just have to keep plugging away at it and kick up a fuss when we see something we don't like..