Europeans have just joined a new country, Euroland is born.

Europeans have just joined a new country, Euroland is born.

www.leap2020.eu

The fact remains that without knowing it, and without having asked their opinion, 440 million Europeans have just joined a new country, Euroland, of which some already share the currency, the Euro, and of which all now share the indebtedness and the joint means to solve the serious problems posed in the context of the global systemic crisis. The budgetary and financial decisions taken during the Summit of the weekend of the 8th May in terms of a response to the European public debt crisis can be evaluated differently according to one’s analysis of the crisis and its causes. LEAP/E2020 will r

(visit the link for the full news article)

Please read the article in the link provided, would realy like your opinion on this.

Our Dutch secretary of Finances De Jager(de-misionar) Just voted NO against a EU bill that Olli Rehn (EU Monetary Policy) suggested. The bill directed EU states to measure the draft state budget's in advance. Rehn hopes to get more grip on the budget process of the European states.

Our Dutch secretary voted No becouse of the following reason; "with the bill passed the Sovereignty of the states will be at stake".
reading the article from think-tank GEAB N°45 i realy question the remarkable reason De Jager has given.

Is the EU realy a new country becouse of the 9 may 2010 treaty?


kind regards,


(apologize the Enlish)

www.leap2020.eu
(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by ThraexX
Is the EU realy a new country becouse of the 9 may 2010 treaty?

It was the next step in the creation of a country of sorts..

What remains to be seen is if the EUROZONE countries can reform the EMU and come out of this without the EUROZONE and EU collapsing.. If so, then the EUROZONE will be a country.. Pretty much.

well, i am starting to get confused by the adversative messages given. the Eu is becomming a new country(?) but at the same time there is a chance that country's will be stepping out og the EU, like Germany Source

i mean with all these differend sound we hear, what the h*ll can we expect?

[edit (grammer) on 18-5-2010 by ThraexX]

[edit on 18-5-2010 by ThraexX]

Morgan Stanley fears German exit from EMU Morgan Stanley has warned that the Greek debt crisis is setting off a chain of events that may prompt German withdrawal from the eurozone, with grim implications for investors caught off-guard. By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard Published: 6:12PM BST 15 Apr 2010 Comments 112 | Comment on this article Greeks are rush to test their luck in the Joker lottery with its ?19m jackpot as the country's borrowing rate shot up again above 7pc. Greeks are rush to test their luck in the Joker lottery with its ?19m jackpot as the country's borrowing rate shot up again above 7pc. Photo: AFP "The backstop package for Greece and the ECB's climb-down on its collateral rules set a bad precedent for other euro area states and make it more likely that the euro area degenerates into a zone of fiscal profligacy, currency weakness, and higher inflationary pressures over time," said Joachim Fels, head of research, in a note to clients. The US bank said a bail-out for Greece may be necessary to avoid a crisis for Europe's financial system, but warned that it also "sows the seeds for potentially even bigger problems further down the road".
Mr Fels said weak states cannot easily leave EMU because they would pay a stiff penalty in higher rates, would be stuck with euro debt contracts, and might need controls to stem capital flight. It is a different calculus for Germany, which would see lower rates and might view EMU exit as the only way to ensure monetary stability.

"Obviously, we have not reached the end game yet. However, with the latest developments, such a break-up scenario has clearly become more likely. The risk is far from negligible and the consequences for financial markets would be very severe. Investors ignore the break-up risk at their peril," he said.

Jürgen Stark, the European Central Bank's chief economist, vowed on Thursday to resist pressure to help spendthrift governments out of their troubles by resorting to easy money. "Let me stress that any call to reduce the real value of public debt through higher inflation will be firmly opposed by the ECB," he said.

Dr Stark said the global credit crisis is starting to metamorphose into a deeper solvency threat to highly-indebted states. "We may already have entered into the next phase of the crisis: a sovereign debt crisis following on the financial and economic crisis. Most governments in the advanced countries will exit from recession with the highest deficit and debt-to-GDP ratios recorded in times of peace. It is essential to prevent public finances from running out of control," he said.

Dr Stark said public debt will reach 88pc of GDP next year in the eurozone and the UK, 100pc in the US and 200pc in Japan. "There is no doubt that fiscal policies have been put on a path that is not sustainable," he said.

He did not name the eurozone's main sinners, but his warnings are clearly directed at Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Ireland. The refusal to let EMU-wide inflation creep up means that these countries will have to carry out "internal devaluations" - or deep wage cuts - to bring their economies back into line with North Europe. Debt costs must be serviced from a shrinking economic base. Critics - including some in IMF circles - retort that such a policy risks pushing these states into debt-deflation spiral and may not work.

Source

You get why i'm confused??




regards,

reply to post by ThraexX


WOW, the SIXTEEN have taken control in euroland, so everyone else follow or plunge in financial ruin. WHO ARE THESE SIXTEEN? Who the hell do they think they are? World dommination. Is this for real? OH IM SORRY, THE DEATH STAR IS FULLY OPERATIONAL.

reply to post by Dermo


Well I have to admit these recent developments weren't something I had foreseen, and it might still be too early to call it. But you guys are definitely making some very strong moves and you may very well be right.

I will be very interested to see the developments in the coming weeks. But it is starting to look like you might be right.

[edit on 18-5-2010 by belial259]

Didn't they all join Euroland the day they chose the Euro?

g

this is HORRIBLE...not one single person has been asked...totally undemocratic...totally immoral...totally corrupt...and totally forseeable right from the start of this crisis what exactly would come out of it...

the german constitution forbids this..and yet here on the news no one is mentioning this...all they are talking about is whats actually being introduced...

germany will not leave the euro zone..thats just ridiculous...all MS arer doing is making the crisis even worse..for financial gain and to push this move towards a USE nearer towards their goal..


this is seriously making me sad......a terrible day for freedom everywhere.

Originally posted by ThraexX


Our Dutch secretary voted No becouse of the following reason; "with the bill passed the Sovereignty of the states will be at stake".

This is absolutely the truth about these trade Unions, including the one they want so badly to implement in the US. What amazes me is that no one realized that up front. (Aside of course from the economic powers who lobbied for these unions)

Its going to happen here in the Americas too, unless we all wake up.

reply to post by grantbeed


well not realy no. That was just a joint currency, thing happening now seem to move to al whole other level....read the article??


regards,

reply to post by alienesque


IM SORRY, THE DEATH STAR IS FULLY OPERATIONAL. YOUNG JEDI. Who are the sixteen doing this?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


indeed, but what worries me, is that about the same time such a statement is given by our secretary of finance. such a treaty is sign by EU states with goes in the opposite direction. Propaganda??



[edit on 18-5-2010 by ThraexX]

hey the way i see it is that if their all one united "Eurozone" than at least war and conflict will be somewhat prevented amongst the European people.

reply to post by ThraexX



Actually you did all choose to join Euroland way back then, you just didnt realize it. The economic forces driving for globalization knew exactly what they were aiming for. However when you are conning people into GIVING their freedom away, you dont tell them that up front. You appeal to their self-interest. You tell them how much better it will be for them and their finances if they just vote for this.

The only reason America is not already in an NAU is because of our Constitution. They have to erode that more slowly with case law, or they have to declare open war on it. These kinds of economic wars being fought around the globe in our democracies are stealthy ones. They dont want to declare war on the people. They know they cant win that way. They have to trick us into giving away our freedoms. Democratically.

Once we hit a tipping point, and we have given away enough freedoms and rights, then they can dispense with the pretense of democracy altogether.



[edit on 18-5-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by enodebllahsti


i don't think that will make any difference. if a EU coutry was attacked by some roque state say 5 years ago, millitarily forces would have joint if nessesary.

Sovereignty of the EU states..that's the issue here.


regards,

blogs.telegraph.co.uk...

this may make things more interesting....

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by ThraexX

 

Actually you did all choose to join Euroland way back then, you just didnt realize it. The economic forces driving for globalization knew exactly what they were aiming for. However we you are conning people into GIVING their freedom away, you dont tell them that up front. You appeal to their self-interest. You tell them how much better it will be for them and their finances if they just vote for this.

The only reason America is not already in an NAU is because of our Constitution. They have to erode that more slowly with case law, or they have to declare open war on it. These kinds of economic wars being fought around the globe in our democracies are stealthy ones. They dont want to declare war on the people. They know they cant win that way. They have to trick us into giving away our freedoms. Democratically.

Once we hit a tipping point, and we have given away enough freedoms and rights, then they can dispense with the pretense of democracy altogether.

[edit on 18-5-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

its impossible to choose to join something without knowing....we were lied to and conned..and anyone who thinks being lead by such people..who will mislead millions..is a good idea..is....frankly....crazy..


and dont count on your constitution saving you......germanys constitution forbids this too.....hasnt seemed to bother anybody as yet....

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


The truth spoken! but my county didn't choose anything. Yes indeed, we are one of the founding coutry;s of the EU. But the people of The Netherlands voted a flatout NO to the Euro as currency. a year later we where circumvented by our governemt just as France and the Euro was
a fact.

Originally posted by alienesque
reply to post by ThraexX

 

its impossible to choose to join something without knowing....we were lied to and conned..and anyone who thinks being lead by such people..who will mislead millions..is a good idea..is....frankly....crazy..


and dont count on your constitution saving you......germanys constitution forbids this too.....hasnt seemed to bother anybody as yet....

amen!



[edit on 18-5-2010 by ThraexX]

Originally posted by ThraexX
well, i am starting to get confused by the adversative messages given. the Eu is becomming a new country(?) but at the same time there is a chance that country's will be stepping out og the EU, like Germany

The thing is that the idea of Germany leaving the EUROZONE is only speculation by journalists and people in the country.. Not actual politicians with power.. They wouldn't be that stupid.

Think about it.. Germany is owed almost a trillion EURO by other member states through private markets.. And other member states owe each other tens of trillions over all..

If Germany leaves the EURO to get away from the Southern States who currently have problems, they will more than likely default in order to secure themselves.. Leaving German banks to bankrupt and create massive liquidity problems. If Germany loses a trillion EURO in the space of a year.. What do you think will happen?

Then trade barriers go up.. The EU goes bust.. Political tensions arise.. Usually followed by military tensions. Sound familiar? WW1, WW2? In what? The space of a decade? That is one of the very likely scenario's to arise should Germany split the EUROZONE because the whole continent could go broke..

And to be fair, noone is suggesting anyone but Greece leave the EUROZONE.. Except for Journalists and economists who are only seeing the economic picture, not the overall issues on the continent... Even Sarcozy said it in order to force the Germans to bail out Greece because without that bailout, the EURO was gone anyway.. But no politician wants the EU or EURO gone.. Because once Europe is divided, war is never far away. There's 2000 years of war history to back that up..

Remember that the EUROZONE was created in a large way to contain Germany once it was reunified in 1990.. They have profited the most from the EURO and the market it created.. Why would they walk away from it and risk everything?

Originally posted by belial259
Well I have to admit these recent developments weren't something I had foreseen, and it might still be too early to call it. But you guys are definitely making some very strong moves and you may very well be right.

If the law is passed in which member states budgets are overseen by the EU.. Then there's no stopping it because that's the main delve into loss of Sovereignty to the EU fiscal government..

The only thing is that without it, the EURO is a goner over the next 5 or so years..

Originally posted by nite owl
IM SORRY, THE DEATH STAR IS FULLY OPERATIONAL. YOUNG JEDI. Who are the sixteen doing this?

What are you on about? lol