Who Created God? This is the Ultimate Question.

I didn't manage to watch the film either, it came up as an unsafe sight. I thought I would share with you my idea of the creator of all things.
How about in the beginning there was 0 and it was infinite like its form no beginning and no end just a perfect 0. And 0 was known to himself as consciousness, and with that thought he was created.

The answer to this questions is similar to the answer to various other questions. Such as:

What was here before the universe?
How did the Big Bang begin? And why?
What is outside of the universe?
and on and on...

Maybe we can speculate about it, and some people and texts have alluded to knowing the answer. But, maybe it is just beyond us for now.

And, maybe it has been causing trouble, with people trying so hard to find the answer, claim they have the correct answer, and stand behind their claims.

Maybe, for now, we should be ok with the fact that we can't possibly have any definite answer. As with so many other valid questions.

If people were ok with that, wouldn't the world be a much happier place?

"Who created God?" Can be added to other valid questions. Right next too "Why are we here?"

By the way, this is my first post. I'm glad to be here.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by Mr Pliskin]

Originally posted by tsi1991awd

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
Back on topic - I've been dwelling in my thoughts and I've come to the conclusion that you must dwell in your thoughts and literally attempt to imagine nothing then imagine opening your eyes (without opening your eyes) only to see more blackness. Then forget what you feel and feel openly.

Imagine that you are God opening His eyes metaphorically speaking.

I just did this exercise and I think it helped me to understand what I cannot convey in words.

It's the best I can do as weak as an answer as this is at this moment. My apologies.

So are you saying imagine there being nothing but blackness, then open your eyes and you see things around you....and this is what God did. So it relates back to me saying it is like someone's dream or thoughts....we just WERE because we were THOUGHT UP. Everything just IS because it is THOUGHT UP. We are all pawns in someones big game, inside God's head....we are a thought, so we are. But HE IS because...?

The thing is, we can know so much about our physical selves with science. We can NEVER see our spiritual selves because THAT is virtual! The new agers have it backwards. We have to use abstract words to describe aspects of a virtual mind/spirit. The brain is just a CAPACITOR!!!

seriously, look up what a capacitor is, replace a words here and there and you come up with an eerie description of the brain/spirit/motor function interaction.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by SmokeandShadow]

reply to post by Mr Pliskin


An excellent 1st post Mr Pliskin, or should we just call you 'Snake'?

Originally posted by xfiler
reply to post by NorEaster

 

One question.

How can something that lacks matter, time and/or space affect matter, time or space? Only through shared context can two "things" interact. If two "things" do not share context - meaning that they don't exist in a relational sense with one another - then what is it that allows them the capacity to interact?

Does the mind consist of matter, space or time?
Are thoughts made of matter, space or time?

By thinking certain thoughts I can effect my heart rate, I can move my limbs, thereby having direct influence over matter, space and time, and yet thoughts are seemingly very intangible things.

What about even the intention to think, where does that originate from.
Can I think that I am going to create a thought, or is there something else behind the thought?

Can I be aware of the thought as I create it?
Is awareness a form of thinking, or is it beyond thinking?

God knows :-)

The corporeal you generates the Intellect-centric you. This is the gestation process that you are engaged in at the moment. Being as we are fully engaged in this 2nd stage gestation process, we can't conceive of it as being what it is, so we envision it as being an end in itself. That's not surprising.

Your awareness IS the thought you are creating. Think of yourself as a tub of water that is filling by way of a faucet that water is pouring from. You are the tub of water, but your corporeal awareness is located at the openong of the faucet where the drops of water are gushing together as they emerge to fill the tub. One drop is immediately replace by another drop as the drops that fall into the tub "disappear" into the past. This pouring is the corporeal progression of time, as one burst of Intellect (thought) replaces the burst that you just experienced.

Each burst is registered within the brain's memory cells to ensure Intellect consistency and the brain itself weights each thought - both conscious and sub-conscious - in a way that it has determined to be advantageous to the efficient effort of overall corporeal existence for the whole of you. The result is the establishment of your perspective and personality. This triage is ongoing, and is malleable to an extent, but only within a certain parameter. Radical inconsistency isn't generally allowed, to ensure that your existential trajectory is not erratic.

All of this originates within the corporeal organization that is your brain, and it is the entire organization's effort to transcend the circumstantial (event-based) existence to a permanently surviveable concrete (information-based) existence. In essence, each thought build the eternal you, and this "you" is always and permanently collecting as you live. When the corporeal you dies, you are finally born as the permanent and information-centric you.

Basically, this is the whole reality of human existence in a nutshell.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by NorEaster]

Originally posted by Mr Pliskin
The answer to this questions is similar to the answer to various other questions. Such as:

What was here before the universe?
How did the Big Bang begin? And why?
What is outside of the universe?
and on and on...

Maybe we can speculate about it, and some people and texts have alluded to knowing the answer. But, maybe it is just beyond us for now.

And, maybe it has been causing trouble, with people trying so hard to find the answer, claim they have the correct answer, and stand behind their claims.

Maybe, for now, we should be ok with the fact that we can't possibly have any definite answer. As with so many other valid questions.

If people were ok with that, wouldn't the world be a much happier place?

"Who created God?" Can be added to other valid questions. Right next too "Why are we here?"

By the way, this is my first post. I'm glad to be here.

[edit on 21-5-2010 by Mr Pliskin]

I think that for those who find joy in searching, the search should be their joy. For those who feel the need to hurt others due to the fact that they find joy in that particular search, they need to get a different hobby and leave people alone.

I love investigating reality. To me, there's no bigger thrill than to feel as if I might've just realized something I'd overlooked a thousand times before. I was a pro guitarist for 25 years, and this new fun of mine beats lighting up a stage, hands down.

Why are we here? What are we? Is there a creator behind all of this?

Good Lord, what better questions are there to be fascinated with?

[edit on 21-5-2010 by NorEaster]

Originally posted by SugarCube
reply to post by Mr Pliskin

 

An excellent 1st post Mr Pliskin, or should we just call you 'Snake'?

Thank you.

And, SugarCube...
...call me "Snake".

You know it's funny, my daughter asked me the same thing the other day. The answer for this is very hard to understand. God is the beginning and the end. He IS. Which means he never was created. He doesn't have a beginning or an end, he just is. We will never be able to understand this concept because on earth everything has a cycle, a beginning and an ending. But God does not.

I guess that when it comes to all the biggest questions, whether religious or scientific, a lot of the answers have to be taken on faith.

They have a lot more in common that people think.

reply to post by loisthegriffin
Maybe the universe has always existed.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


I used to get hung up thinking of the sol as another word for personality. That creates problems because I view personality as the expression of our sense of self, or ego. And IMO that comes from the neurobiology of the brain. Brain injury, dementia, can seem to change personality. So ego and sol being expressions of information like everything in existence, are not "things" alone in a void. For something to be dynamic it must interact with something else. Monotheism equates our identity with ego. That flows logically to a point. But it also views "God" as a bigger, smarter version of us and IMO, thats simplistic.

From the point of view of nondeterminism, the chain that keeps us from moving on in cosmic evolution is our obsession with our ego. You can't mention sol without thinking of life after death. Here we say life to mean identity. Our ego impacts the information state of the larger existense. During the process of death as people report who have a near death experience's, they experience their impact on others as others do. The more "stuck on" their identity, the kind of people who we say don't care about others because they can't identify with someone else, the kind at extreme we call sociopaths, or evil when they come back seem more "shook up" Because they know awareness from a strong ego centric point, any other perspective is resisted. But as they are exposed to other information, their ego, their perspective, also includes an awareness of what others felt because of them. "Judgement" is not something imposed on us. It's something we experience from the perspective of another's identity.

I think animals have this same sense of identity.But it's viewpoint is fixed in events as they unfold. It can't create "simulations" of possible future's. Instinct at this level is hard wired behavior, like nest building, migration, etc. A bird doesn't migrate because it understands in the future it will get cold. It does so because it's one aspect of it's behavior. Someone like me who works in a world of theory, analysis, proof, and per review does not have a conflict with this concept. I can't see, or hear x-rays but know they exist because I see them through the "filter" of machines. I believe all creation is information. As I am now, I lack the ability to comprehend this greater landscape. It doesn't threaten my scientific rationalism. It just tells me theres more then I understand. Wonder begins with self reflection.

Originally posted by Casandra
Then he would just tell me that God always existed.

If you can grasp the infinite, there is no start and no end to existence. It always has been and always will be. We can say there is a possibility that a god exists.

That answer didn't satisfy me so I kept asking how was it possible. He said it was a matter of faith.

There are possibilities that other gods exists. There are possibilities that we all have been a god.

You have the freedom to choose your faith.

reply to post by arbiture


Hi arbiture,

Thanks for expressing your thoughts…

You gave me a lot to think about, digest, and respond to…

The first part of your post I will give my thoughts on;

I used to get hung up thinking of the sol as another word for personality. That creates problems because I view personality as the expression of our sense of self, or ego. And IMO that comes from the neurobiology of the brain. Brain injury, dementia, can seem to change personality. So ego and sol being expressions of information like everything in existence, are not "things" alone in a void. For something to be dynamic it must interact with something else. Monotheism equates our identity with ego. That flows logically to a point. But it also views "God" as a bigger, smarter version of us and IMO, thats simplistic.

OK here are my thoughts….IMO only;

1/.

I used to get hung up thinking of the sol as another word for personality.

Yes I see many think of Soul as having a different personality… Never thought of it in this way before.

What I know of the Soul in my line of work is that the Soul is actually a system involving mechanics that decodes Program based Books thus producing an experience within that construct. I haven’t come across the soul having ego or a second personality.

I understand that LIFE, or perhaps what some may call Spirit is more like a "Comparator", and as a result of discovering the nature of the self, created such a mechanism that compiled the workings of an experience i.e. two things that interact with each other in what I understand as "Interactive Geometry" or to the layman "Interactive Art" but having kinetics and other rules introduced into such a system or process, and presented in the illusion of 3D. The opposite end then enters the Game or program to experience what it pre-created. I refer to the opposite end of LIFE as all seems to be based on two components involving opposites.

What I have found IMO, is that LIFE is non-dimensional and has Created a partition map based on rules out of "Concepts" similar to that of programming today...

Rather than representing commands and data by hex. or some other number based system, it has used "Geometric Concepts", and such rules are based on shape, which I will refer to Geometry.

The language of Number, is just one way of expressing and solving problems, there are other ways of achieving the desired results.

I believe that the "Opposites" have always been...
Time itself is a measurement of the rate of change in things, (involving Comparing) but "Time" is more a human concept. So I look at time existing both in a Static component and can also be experienced though in a dynamic way such as we experience in the environment of this Universe.

One crude example of this is “movie film”, where the information is contained statically on a strip of film, yet we can observe this in a different way by passing it through a projector, and observing a Screen the images are shown on.
So we now experience the film as though dynamic, even though the frames of data are static on the film.

Another similar example involves a CD or DVD and player.

Another example is in say ROM or RAM and involving source code and a processing system to carry out the functions.

I see LIFE having organised itself by using a "Multi layered Partition Map" to enable processing.

So first the experience is set up, and a droplet or partition of LIFE, then experiences this as though a first person function.

A bit like first person video games, that have a memory map, producing the environment of the game, where this memory map is automatically being updated within the boundaries of the program.

There may in fact be two personalities involved ???

a. Life the Comparator.

b. A created filter such as of the human brain, which gives a second Personality.

But whether LIFE has a personality of its self that I am Not sure.

Perhaps it does???

This may help you to understand when I say the Soul is but a machine used for processing information and the personality is produce by a manufactured filter of the brain etc.

2/.

That creates problems because I view personality as the expression of our sense of self, or ego. And IMO that comes from the neurobiology of the brain. Brain injury, dementia, can seem to change personality.

Yes I would go along with you on this…

3/.

So ego and sol being expressions of information like everything in existence, are not "things" alone in a void.

????

IMO, The soul… What I have described above as far as I know hasn’t expression, but rather what dwells within the Construct of the Soul has expression.

If we look at this scenario everything i.e. any object exists in its own hole (Void) which is identical in its "Outer" form to that of the object in question for example a chunk of rock.

If there wasn’t a hole there, for such an item to be in it could not be as something else would occupy that space instead.

The other curiosity is that all things contain both "Something and "Nothing.

Consider a "disc" or "plane", for example it is its “Outer”, which gives it its form, yet the "Centre" has No size or Shape and therefore is said to be Nothing... Yet the Centre Still exists.

So any form of what you call matter is in fact "Something" and "Nothing".

And every Location is both "Something" & "Nothing", and not just one or the other.

"Nothing" is "Something" and here lays the very Strange Paradox.

I have discovered the "Paradoxical Geometric Algorithm" but this in itself would take another thread on ATS to discuss.

These two Components (Something & Nothing) are Opposites, yet they are both of the One, in a very strange way.

I think this is because LIFE is a Comparator involving "Awareness".

The Fact that "Nothing" is "Something" are sub-components of another Component which I don't have a word for. That is if we observe these two as "Components".

If Nothing wasn’t Something, then we couldn’t be discussing anything about the word “Nothing”.

And agin I don't believe "Something" can exist without the existence of "Nothing" and visa versa.

Just as in without the "Left" we don't have the "Right" etc etc.

The Strange thing to get the head around, is they appear to be two "components" of a single form or nature ???

Very, very strange this Component, “Nothing” ??? LOL.

An object we see is actually the "Contents" of a Hole, containing Data that gives its interior, and texture, colour, Shape etc.

And such Contents exists between the "Centre" and "Outer" Form of any object???

In fact all things consist of both an “Inner” and “Outer” whether Conceptual, emotional or anything else which exists.

The Centre of an object I understand is the "origin" of such a hole and its contents, but this would take a thread on ATS to discus this alone.

4/.

For something to be dynamic it must interact with something else.

But first we need to understand how the Concepts are to be presented, processed and interpreted, before we can understand such processes.

Example of the Film, CD, DVD or ROM and RAM or other storage media or system.

For example imagine "Awareness" being able to observe, and compare two things, such as in a plane or Face.
Any Plane has by definition, two faces whether existing in 2D or 3D and even in 2D a third component exists, between these two faces, even if it has no thickness as in 3D.

Depending on our understanding of the nature of Awareness, Awareness may exist inherently within the "Concept" as a result of the two faces of the plane, being "Opposites" so an unstable condition exists, in the Concept that involves the establishment of these three "Components" in Awareness i.e. the ability to be aware of difference through Comparing thus the Comparator existing not as you would see as being in matter but only in the existence of Concept.
Perhaps this may be what others call spiritual… I am not sure ???

5/.

Monotheism equates our identity with ego.

Possibly, if I see it in your understanding, but there other ways of understanding this.. That is Not to say you are incorrect but is one way of looking at this.

6/.

That flows logically to a point. But it also views "God" as a bigger, smarter version of us and IMO, thats simplistic.

I understand where you are coming from, but again it depends on how you view these things, and the boundaries of anyones understanding. We can only consider what we are "Aware" of…

If in areas, Science is not "Aware" of the existence of something, it relies upon serendipity to discover these unknown areas.

Much of our Tech. is discovered through serendipity ???

I will have a think on the rest of your reply to my post, and get back to you when I absorb what you are saying…

Thanks once again for your response.

I will come back to you regarding the rest of your post once I have absorbed it and thought about it.....

[edit on 23-5-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

Who created god?

God was created by the "same people" that created Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, the Fairy Godmother..etc.

Originally posted by NegativeBeef

Who created god?

God was created by the "same people" that created Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, the Fairy Godmother..etc.

Don't forget Harry Potter...which is weird...because apparently Harry Potter's an enemy of God

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Hi Matrix Traveller, nice to see you around here,

One of the things that touch on but do not go into detail about is a hypothesis of the form of God pre- and post- creation. You mention the 'opposites' but it is worth noting the concept of The All which is purely spiritual in its single nature and the comparison with product of creation which is infused with the original spirit but which is physical in a manifested form.

Determinism is the essence of this conjecture since The All is a product of all manifestations of what could be and what will be in our particular occurrence of the universe. As such determinism is not relevant to pre-creation and is only evident as the path that is taken (among the many possible) for every physical entity within the entirety of creation.

This is rather like the film-strip that you mention, in that each 'cell' or individual image is pre-ordained and together they form a kind of matrix. Each hop from cell to cell provides an appearance of continuous movement against time with no apparent 'cuts' in the sequence - you don't suddenly jump from one scene to another even though it is possible. Just like a chess board but where hops are made from one square to another adjacent square but always heading toward the opposite side of the board.

The point is, the physical manifestation has a 'constrained' free will yet the decision path always follows a predetermined possible route.

reply to post by SugarCube


yes. these are things i have yet to consider. i dont even know the full picture yet. but fate exsists and it has been guiding me all along. i dont mind that people dont believe me now. they will be proven wrong

May be peasce be upon the follower of truth.

My first question to the atheist will be: "What is the definition of God?" For a person to say there is no God, he should know what is the meaning of God. If I hold a book and say that ‘this is a pen’, for the opposite person to say, ‘it is not a pen’, he should know what is the definition of a pen, even if he does not know nor is able to recognise or identify the object I am holding in my hand. For him to say this is not a pen, he should at least know what a pen means. Similarly for an atheist to say ‘there is no God’, he should at least know the concept of God. His concept of God would be derived from the surroundings in which he lives. The god that a large number of people worship has got human qualities - therefore he does not believe in such a god. Similarly a Muslim too does not and should not believe in such false gods.

1. "If God created everything - then who created God?"

Answer:

According to the Quran, Allah(Lord) tells us that He is the only creator and sustainer of all that exists and that nothing and no one exists alongside Him, nor does He have any partners. He tells us that He is not created, nor is He like His creation in anyway. He calls Himself by a number of names and three of them are:

* A) The First - (Al-Awal)
* B) The Last - (Al Akhir)
* C) The Eternal, who is sought after by His creation, while He has no need from them at all. (As-Samad)

He always has existed and He never was created, as He is not like His creation, nor similar to it, in any way.

Originally posted by NegativeBeef
God was created by the "same people" that created Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, the Fairy Godmother..etc.

You raise a very good point NegativeBeef, but even the terms of reference you use are simply 'named' metaphors for a spiritual and existential belief that manifests on the micro-level (i.e. as individuals) but imbues the macro-level (i.e. society) with a common belief structure.

Barring Santa Claus, the examples you give are indicative of pagan cultural icons which have a direct metaphorical meaning in terms of the life cycle of the world around us and for our lives themselves. Even Santa is a descendant of the original gift giving characters associated with the 'new-year' rebirth even though he takes many forms within different cultures.

From time immemorial, the winter solstice has marked the beginning of a new 'solar' year, a rebirth if you will, providing hope for the future. The fact that the Christian religion (and others) assimilated this period into the Christ story is a reflection of the importance of this period in society when we were more aligned with the phases of the seasons just for survival.

That Christ has become synonymous with 'God' is a misnomer and a product of Christian religion, however, 'God' manifest as natural phenonema and especially the cycles of the Earth has been worship in iconic form for many millennia.

The tooth fairy is an icon associated with an important passage of life. The fairy doesn't exist per se, but is a manifestation of many important attributes of cultural significance, as is the Easter bunny and even Santa.

The thing is, we have to look beyond the small flying nymphs, the floppy eared egg guardians and the jolly red suited old man and understand that they are symbols of a bundle of ideas and doctrines and generally all derived from a more 'harmonic' period of human history.

So, you are right that the same people that came up with the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny and Santa also came up with God, they have been doing it for generation upon generation and 'they' are 'us'.

We celebrate these icons because they represent truisms in human society that are sadly more and more neglected and maligned as we become disassociated from our true place in the natural world.