OILPOCALYPSE!? (lets get real)

reply to post by insideNSA


Once again... QUOTE ME where I've said the event "isn't that bad". Er wait, the entire premise of the thread is that it isn't as bad as you maniac doomonger 'Extinction Level Event' people are spewing. I just saw someone else in another thread saying that. Read the title of this thread: OILPOCALYPSE. Meanwhile there are multiple HOAX threads right now talking about there being evacuations of MILLIONS of people in FL, all sourced from nowhere, when there have never been mass evacuations because of an oil spill.

I've said there will be major immediate impact where directly hit by the oil. I've said there's probably 60,000 bpd spewing. Nope not good enough. You people have to have total destruction or else!

My comments in a thread about it being "no big deal" are relevent here:

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Alright settle down everyone.

The OP is wrong in broadly stating that 'its no big deal', but is correct that in the long term there will be lackluster trace as proven by history:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oil IS organic and goes away eventually via bacteria. What lasts the longest is tar (which bacteria still eats), which is only 6% of the crude content. 50% of the crude content evaporates in a relatively short time. A major portion of the stuff spewing is also Natural GAS, which totally evaporates. Additionally, crude oil isn't remotely as bad as as the used motor oil / automotive fluids that drips from EVERY vehicle and in larger volume than oil spills, averaged out over several years.

The truth is always in the middle, and in this case there is little long term damage yet tons of immediate damage where directly hit by various concentrations of the various compounds in crude. The fear / guilt mongers can't have it both ways. YES, where the oil slicks hit things WILL DIE. It WON'T be pretty. But this damage isn't permanent, nor will the entire Gulf or whatever be as damaged as the immediate area. The further the oil gets from ground zero the more it is diluted and separated chemically, yet everyone screams about it leaving the area, while screaming about it being in the area.

Personally, I stepped into the issue to better understand it, and as I've seen thru the many myths being spewed I've been attacked for challenging those myths. Honestly, it's all good fun for me

but these sorts of malicious emotional tactics can push someone into taking a stance against those most irrational, and in my experience the past week its more been the guilt mongers who've been the most illogical and nasty.

But to respond to you more directly, have you read the entire thread herein? Did you miss the part where Texas took the hit from the Ixtoc and a month later a massive tanker crashed and dumped millions of gallons right in the Galveston Harbor? This thread is full of examples.

I even made an entirely new thread providing people like you 3 CHOICE case example regions to study to come back with data to show the world the long term effects of crude oil spills:
True impact of Oil Spills?
And people like you scattered hoping the thread would die and go away. Bring me the data! I've shown you the way! I even started the other thread Toxicitiy of crude oil, by percentage? hoping to get down to some real numbers of the amount of toxicity spewing percentage, that wont evaporate, to better understand the amount of 'nasty' we can expect to deal with, and that thread was withered away because getting down to some real numbers isn't what people like you want. You want people to not understand it, because if they do then they wont believe all of your fallacious fearmongering.

Or am I wrong, is your fearmongering true? SHOW US! Those 2 threads are the way to do it! But you won't. So should we interpret that as you being wrong? What else should it be interpreted as? What, you don't want to have some actual concrete numbers on the actual long term effects we should expect? You want it to be confusing? You want to be clueless other than just 'knowing' that its REAL BAD? While we're at it: Why do you want the oil spill to be maximum?

And while I'm at it this is relevant:

Originally posted by LittleSecret
www.mms.gov...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4709d8aca585.gif[/atsimg]

[edit on 24-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

You sure do put a lot of effort into trying to convince people to look at the bright side.

You would be wise to put your efforts into helping find ways to stop the leak first.

Put your efforts into forcing BP and gang to stop poisoning the sea with dispersants.

Put your efforts into forcing BP and gang to pay every penny to the business that will lose income over what BP and gang allowed to happen due to not installing an acoustically activated blowout preventer.

Put your efforts into forcing BP and gang to excavate destroyed marshes and create new marshes.

Put your efforts into forcing BP and gang to clean every drop of oil off the ships, boats and docks.

Put your efforts into forcing BP and gang to build fish hatcheries to replace every fish they killed.

Then…

Put your efforts into forcing the administration to enforce strict environmental and safety regulations.

Then...

Come back and try to get people to look at the bright side.

reply to post by FearNoEvil


Star, and agreed.

Anyone not trying to mobilize all personal resources, to make those who can make a difference aware, but instead putting a "smiley face" on things, must not be from around here.

I say to OP again, do all you can do in mobilizing all Fed, state and local officials to take command of this situation and stop this VOLCANO OF OIL.

Then we can sit around prognosticating on how long it will be before we see the pre-volcano Gulf of Mexico, not a dead cesspool of oil and marine life and marine plants.

reply to post by FearNoEvil

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings

And how do you suppose I do that? I haven't noticed any threads started specifically for people to post ideas about SOLUTIONS. If you want it fixed, why haven't YOU done that?? Flagging and creating and bumping threads that spew doom and guilt aren't the solution. The more hype and falsehoods you spew the more people are going to step up to set the facts straight. I genuinely want to know exactly how much toxic damage we face here, while a certain sector seem to not even care about that, and instead just want to scare people. This is about exactly what the MSM has done to all of us our entire lives, and now people are smearing the MSM while using their tactics.

I've been trying to fight the Establishment on multiple fronts for years. But all the sudden now I'm somehow going to make 'the government' do something about the oil mess. loam started a thread bashing Obama's response, and is now getting attacked by 'democrat' types. I supported that thread, but did you?

I even started a thread smearing BP's Brainwash Marketing to Kids, and I'm still being called a 'corporatist' by "Vitriol & Angst". You want to teach these companies a lesson? You want to prevent more mistakes? Smear them truthfully and therefore effectively. Make them FEAR you. Support the BP's extremely long list of violations thread (I did), and start a blog chronicling that sort of info.

The Solution:

Starts with YOU. Stop using oil, as best you can. Switch over to a laptop computer. Build a solar hot water heater system (it's cheap and easy). Build a biodiesel processor system, and then only pay $1 per gallon for fuel. Switch over to LED lighting, and start phasing in solar panels. Grow a garden, and only stop to shop while doing other things. And so on.

If YOU want supporters, don't attack them as shills if they straighten out your fallacies.

I've shown in this thread and others that the processed motor oil & related fluids are extremely more toxic than crude oil, and are more widespread than these crude spills. Focus on that.

Environmentalist extremists attempt to use falsehoods such a "Global Warming" to push other agendas. Falsehoods and hype and distortions only fuel debate, and what is lost is the focus on real issues, such as the true real to life in your face and in your bloodstream synthetic pollutants.

So I advice stick the the facts, and then you wont have to deal with stickler iconoclast extremist bastards who are suckers for debate, like me


[edit on 24-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

still waiting for you two things.

that you stop referencing things that don't relate to this oil volcano, such as the evaporation statistic from teh gov't website. i will find the source but if you hadn't noticed, most of the oil is BELOW water and therefore CAN'T evaporate. It is believed that only 2% of this mess is on the surface.


also to admit that you are wrong. its such a sad thing but the oil will eventually make its way to florida. once it hits you locally you'll hopefully come to your senses and stop trying so hard to make people think its 'not that bad' the lengths you are going to to do this are ridiculous and you are just making yourself look like a fool in doing so.

once i see these long drawn out rebuttals to a simple debate I know that I've won the argument. you are trying so hard... its like someone trying to convince others that the sky is green. if you look and gather data points, even if they don't relate or in anyway prove your hypothesis, you start believing yourself that the sky is green.

i actually feel sorry for you. when reality hits you like a ton of bricks and you awaken from your self created propaganda gulag you have entrapped yourself in, it won't be pleasant.

don't ya think its about time you stop making a fool of yourself and start looking at the facts? look how much devastation is going on. its unbelievable the lack of any sort of response from the gov't. as rome burns there are A LOT of upset people who's livelyhoods have been devastated from this epic disaster.

go try telling some of those who live on the gulf coast, those whose livelyhoods have been decimated, that this 'isn't that bad'. show them all your references, links, graphs, photos, historical data points and convince them that this isn't that bad. better wear a bulletproof jacket when you do though

[edit on 25-5-2010 by insideNSA]

Originally posted by insideNSA
that you stop referencing things that don't relate to this oil volcano, such as the evaporation statistic from teh gov't website.

So you want me to stop referencing articles, factoids, science papers, history, etc that provides insight into understanding the dynamics of crude oil and oil 'spills'?



You haven't really responded directly to much of anything, anywhere. That's important because I asked you if you really want to understand this sort of crisis, or if you just want to be ignorant to how these things work so you can just operate under the premise of it being "REAL BAD" in order to more effectively propagate guilt and fear. Although I should have put it "AS BAD AS POSSIBLE".

also to admit that you are wrong.

Wrong about WHAT?? This is one reason I keep begging to be quoted. This thread is about disinfo'esque OILPOCALYPSE doomongering. Since you won't specify what I'm wrong about, should I just suppose that you're implying I'm wrong about this not being some sort of 'Extinction Level Event'?

once i see these long drawn out rebuttals to a simple debate I know that I've won the argument.

Denial can be an ugly thing.

I provide numerous links, quotes, images, historical comparisons, science papers, impact assessment reports, articles, and etc and in response all you do is say "admit that you're wrong", and somehow you've had some sort of victory?

i will find the source but if you hadn't noticed, most of the oil is BELOW water and therefore CAN'T evaporate. It is believed that only 2% of this mess is on the surface.

Who believes that? More talk and majority of the time I follow up on these sorts of claims its just made up. You speak of victory yet never have any citations.

Do you even know what oil is? Can you describe it? What is in it? What oil ISNT?

[edit on 25-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by FearNoEvil
reply to post by 1SawSomeThings

Here you go... I started a Gulf Oil Gusher SOLUTIONS ONLY thread.

Solutions are 6-fold:
1. Ideas to help stop or clean up the crisis.

2. Ways to make BP suffer the consequences so that they and their ilk learn from their mistakes of being sloppy etc. Make them FEAR the public backlash and loss of profits! They have to suffer consequences to have any hope of them and others like them learning their lesson about being halfarse. Children whose parents fail to teach them mistakes, or to recognize consequences are doomed to a lifetime of loserdom.

3. Ways to fix the government that facilitates these sorts of things. Response, etc.

4. Naming names of who should be run out of office etc for their role in all of this (specify solid reasons please).

5. Pinpointing the MISTAKES made so that the 'idiot geniuses' know what not to do. Apparently they need to be told.

6. Things YOU can do to not use as much oil. Policy concepts on par with Global Warming proposals will only lead to debate and will become counter-productive at this juncture.

Please leave screaming and etc at the door. Lets keep this logical...

If that doesn't make you happy then nothing will. And if you really care about stopping these sorts of things I expect you'd participate...

So you want me to stop referencing articles, factoids, science papers, history, etc that provides insight into understanding the dynamics of crude oil and oil 'spills'?

did you read my post? yes i want you to stop because your 'factoids' are irrelevant!

your use of bold big font is as impressive as your logic that this isn't that bad.


go try telling some of those who live on the gulf coast, those whose
livelyhoods have been decimated, that this isnt that
bad. show them all your references, links, graphs
photos, historical data points and convince them that it isnt that bad. better wear a bulletproof jacket when
you do though

[edit on 26-5-2010 by insideNSA]

I'm convinced that you should change your name to IgnoranceISBliss or IgnoreTheFacts or CreateUROwnReality

soooo is Mr Cousteau also wrong? Tell him it isn't that bad

The videos BP does not want you to see

just the beginning of 'not that bad' in Louisiana
24 Miles Of Louisiana Is Destroyed - Everything Is Dead

hmmm, good thing for now its just in the billions... which i guess isn't that bad compared to trillions. but wait, whattyaknow the thing is still gushing oil!
At risk: The Gulf's $234 billion economy

Not that bad again... just the worst spill in US history and no signs of stopping it! i'm so glad this isn't going to be that bad
White House: Undoubtedly Worst Oil Spill in U.S. History

sea floor collapsing, more oil spilling out... NOT THAT BAD!
Video Still of New Oil Explosion & Sea Floor Collapse!!!

reply to post by insideNSA


Nice source:




Your video at the bottom doesnt work.

IgnoranceIsntBlisss: I'm going to give you credit, a pat on the back, because you must be feeling unappreciated right now. Folks, Mr. Ignorance is giving us REAL data. Now, I'm more than willing to believe that this oil spill is an 'extinction level event', but I want facts first. Frankly, I don't see enough facts supporting that assertion to believe it. Just because a news story reports that an area may be evacuated as a result of the oil leak, it doesn't mean that Mr. Ignorance's numbers are wrong. No, a news story with updated numbers far beyond what was initially imagined would do that. Where is that?

And yes, they may possibly evacuate Tampa. This is due to the burning of oil slicks. Neither I nor Mr. Ignorance claim that this oil would not hit Florida and cause damage. And yes, that is a big deal. But is it the end of the world? Probably not. Fact is, we rape our planet on a daily basis. Yes, some reefs will be damaged. But at the same time, for example, you have to keep in mind that we are purposefully destroying the world's last remaining rain forests as I type. Why aren't you freaking out about that? If you're going to freak out about this oil spill, you should be freaking 24/7/365 about what is happening to this planet of ours.

I want hard statistical evidence that refutes Mr. Ignorance's data on the rate that the oil is leaking (20,000-60,000). OK, someone earlier referenced some ridiculous statistic from George Ure. Well, if you didn't know, George Ure has a degree in business administration. WTF does he know about estimating oil spills/leaks? I want stats from someone with the appropriate credentials. What I do know is that Ure runs a site called "Replay 1929" and that he profits off of such hysteria.

The fact is that the media is playing you for a fool with all of these 'disasters'. Every year they pinpoint something close to our shores (or within our shores) to make us freak out about. It's all for profit. I guarantee you that companies like CNN bank on there being a major disaster every year to supplement their ratings/revenue. As soon as they smell blood, they descend on it like sharks and scream like crazed monkeys. It's a proven money-maker.

Globally, coral reefs and rain forests are undergoing a slow extinction, taking all of our planet's biodiversity with them. Yet no one cares about that, no. But when something affects our economy, it's HUGE #ING NEWS, MAN. The Gulf oil leak is going to be a disaster for a few years, tops, but humanity will survive. Seriously, wake up, our economy is bull#, anyway. We have massive overproduction and waste (from the overproduction), yet we see people being forced to live check to check, like slaves, to the point that something like an oil leak/spill will ruin their lives. Why should it be this way? But no one asks those questions, the important, intellectual questions. No, we just jerk our knees and complain fruitlessly at whatever Big Media points their cameras at. WAKE UP, I'M WARNING YOU, FOR MY SAKE.

Will it be news when the last tree is cut down in the Amazon to provide you with printing paper or a $0.05 pencil?

[edit on 29-5-2010 by ireallyknowthetruth]

[edit on 29-5-2010 by ireallyknowthetruth]

[edit on 29-5-2010 by ireallyknowthetruth]

still waiting ignoranceIsBliss.... still waiting for you to admit you are wrong.

btw, hope you have a nice pair of boots for when that crap reaches florida

reply to post by ireallyknowthetruth


If you want some real data, go here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you read it back to front it will be easier to tie together. The first part dates from the 14th of may and is more speculative due to the crappy data being fed then, but the sources and background info are pretty solid.

still waiting mr ignoranceisnotzeeblissssssssss







and the winner to this debate is............


ME!!!!!

reply to post by insideNSA


reply to post by insideNSA


Waiting for what? You haven't really debated anything. Review your posts. You can't even tell me what I'm wrong about. Read the title of the thread, and the OP, everything else I've posted, and then come back and tell me what I'm wrong about.

Here's a 'new' scientist saying that the Gulf belches over 1,000 bpd via natural seeps, er rather over 365,000 barrels per year:

Every day, Mother Nature burps another 1,000 barrels of crude into the Gulf of Mexico, along with additional quantities of natural gas. They enter from more than 1,000 widely dispersed natural seeps, deposits that University of Georgia oceanographer Samantha Joye has been studying for 15 years. Normally, these hydrocarbons don’t stick around long because local bacteria have evolved to eat them about as fast as they appear.

And that is potentially good news, she explained in testimony during a pair of June 9 House subcommittee events on Capitol Hill, because those bugs are now in place to begin chowing down on oil and gas entering the Gulf from BP's damaged Deepwater Horizon well. LINK

I don't think you seriously want me to show you where I won this debate. Your premise was this oil spill isn't a catastrophic event. You compared it to historical oil spills, gave a bunch of data points and try to reason that this wouldnt' be that bad.

If you want I will go back through this thread a pull quotes you made and it will be blatant to everyone what a fool you make of yourself.

One I specifically remember as you stood by the obviously wrong stat that only 5000 barrels a day were spewing out of the pipe. I said it was about 75,000 if I recall. Officials now say its 50,000 to 100,000 a day. So who was closer to the truth? you with 5,000 or me with 75,000?

Sure your data points on the historical spills are probably correct. But the assumptions you make are just plain stupid and obviously WRONG. As I've stated you cannot compare this to anything historical. This is not a spill but a highly pressurized oil volcano!!! So all your assumptions from are not only obviously and empirically proven wrong but also logically make no sense.

So, yes, I am still waiting for you to admit that you were wrong trying to convince people this will all blow over and everything will be just peachy.

I've heard about Oil rain coming down in your state, Florida... Seen any yet? There are reports of land animals now dying from the benzene in the atmosphere. Plants and crops in Tennessee are now getting blotchy spots on them and the farmers are blaming something in the atmosphere. The oilapocalypse unfortunately is just getting started.

So i'm waiting.... still waiting... just man up and admit you were wrong. c'mon I know you can do it. take a deep breath and say it... you'll feel much better.

The oil on top that we see that is as big as a few small states put together is only the tip of the iceberg. There is much more under the surface that will eventually kill everything in the gulf as it depletes the oxygen.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
reply to post by insideNSA

 

reply to post by insideNSA

 

Waiting for what? You haven't really debated anything. Review your posts. You can't even tell me what I'm wrong about. Read the title of the thread, and the OP, everything else I've posted, and then come back and tell me what I'm wrong about.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by insideNSA]

ok..... so what? whats a 1000 bpd compared to 100,000 - 300,000 bpd?
what is your point?

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Here's a 'new' scientist saying that the Gulf belches over 1,000 bpd via natural seeps, er rather over 365,000 barrels per year:

Every day, Mother Nature burps another 1,000 barrels of crude into the Gulf of Mexico, along with additional quantities of natural gas. They enter from more than 1,000 widely dispersed natural seeps, deposits that University of Georgia oceanographer Samantha Joye has been studying for 15 years. Normally, these hydrocarbons don’t stick around long because local bacteria have evolved to eat them about as fast as they appear.

And that is potentially good news, she explained in testimony during a pair of June 9 House subcommittee events on Capitol Hill, because those bugs are now in place to begin chowing down on oil and gas entering the Gulf from BP's damaged Deepwater Horizon well. LINK

During WWII, according to which tables you search, we lost about 2016 war ships that went to the bottom along with another 793 U-Boats. Probably double that number to include the cargo haulers. If the average boat was about 10,000 tons and carried about 10% of its weight in fuel, there was over the course of the several years of war about 3-million tons to 6-million tons or about 24-million barrels to 48-million barrels of oil dumped and leaked at sea, nearly every where, broadly disbursed. About 20% of the oil burned; the rest dried, sank, and evaporated, some is still leaking from the hulls. The residual tar balls sank back into the oceans, most of it never reached the tide lands.

Put it in perspective. About 25,000 to 50,000 barrels of oil a day, the equivalent of sinking 20 to 40 WWII war ships each day by Deepwater Horizon oil rig disaster. Maybe more! BP won’t let anyone verify the actual leak rate.
Unlike WWII, our war is in a concentrated area of the Gulf and BP says it’ll now be August, maybe. Oil-wise, that's on par with fighting WWII inside the Gulf and by the time its over, maybe equivalent to two WWII’s inside the Gulf. This is a disaster of the first magnitude and is a game changer in national concerns for platform safety and disaster containment.

That’s why we need a clearing house like the US Navy NAOE for marine oil disasters. We have near 4000 well heads out there in the Gulf and you’re seeing what happens if just one fails. Check this link at Link


[edit on 11-6-2010 by LateToTheTable]

Originally posted by insideNSA
I don't think you seriously want me to show you where I won this debate.
...
If you want I will go back through this thread a pull quotes you made and it will be blatant to everyone what a fool you make of yourself.

Actually, I've BEGGED you and several others saying the same thing to quote me. The reason nobody has is because you can't.

One I specifically remember as you stood by the obviously wrong stat that only 5000 barrels a day were spewing out of the pipe.

That's absolutely false. Quote me.

I said it was about 75,000 if I recall. Officials now say its 50,000 to 100,000 a day.

Actually, Obama's task force officials are saying it's 12,000 - 19,000.

As I've stated you cannot compare this to anything historical.

Reread the OP. Or google "Ixtoc I".

I've heard about Oil rain coming down in your state, Florida... Seen any yet?

I wish. Rain needs to water my garden for a change. But when it has rained all has been fine. Maybe bring some water analysis reports that prove these "reports". Talk is cheap. I wouldn't state that such a thing happened without data...

There are reports of land animals now dying from the benzene in the atmosphere. Plants and crops in Tennessee are now getting blotchy spots on them and the farmers are blaming something in the atmosphere.

Bring us the reports, and then some scientific data, please.

So i'm waiting.... still waiting... just man up and admit you were wrong.

Wrong about what? For the nth-teenth time: QUOTE ME!

The oil on top that we see that is as big as a few small states put together is only the tip of the iceberg. There is much more under the surface that will eventually kill everything in the gulf as it depletes the oxygen.

Conjecture. loam has a thread going where that has been a central issue:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read that one real well, add some debate, before you go making staunch absolutists comments like that, please.

ok..... so what? whats a 1000 bpd compared to 100,000 - 300,000 bpd?

You clearly have no idea how foolish that sounds. 300,000, or rather almost SEVEN PERCENT of ALL oil well output in the entire US? From one single well? There's over 4,000 wells in the Gulf alone!!


[edit on 11-6-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]