OILPOCALYPSE!? (lets get real)

like i said at 1125 pounds of presser it would be 138 gallons a second comming out of a 20 ince pipe now thats about the presser a good presser washer works at again as i said not much

Originally posted by xxcalbier
assuming 200,000 gallons a day that works out to 138 gallons a second coming out of a 20 inch pipe .

Your math is wrong.

60 sec/min x 60 min/hr x 24 hours = 86400 seconds.

200,000 / 86400 = 2.31 gallons/sec

2 gallons a second ok my math is wrong akk wish it had been right it could be 5 time 2 easly that also reduces the need presser to a foset lol

[edit on 17-5-2010 by xxcalbier]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Now quality of beaches are at threat. I've never had tar stick to me over in Clearwater. Pretty remarkable actually, considering all of the seepage, spills like Ixtoc I, drilling and the rest that is Gulf wide.

True...true. I hear you, about the only problem concerning gulf beaches so far this year has been the unusually cold temperatures, lol.

My stomping ground is St Pete Beach, but I hear you, I was in the water this weekend, and I also wasn't pasted in tar...lol.

www.pbs.org...

good wiget to calculate amount of oil. if someone can ebed please do.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Thanks. I've been holding back on saying this, but my Plan B SHTF location is up towards the panhandle, in an area that would suffer deeply from a direct oil slick hit. I was bugged out for weeks, until I bothered to look at history and the rest. I have extreme interest in this beyond most could imagine.

Headline at Huffington Post:

Oil Spill Florida Keys: Scientists Think Oil Has Entered Loop Current And Poses Grave Threat To Reefs

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

First and foremost, the earth naturally seeps oil, methane, and all the rest associated into the worlds oceans, yet somehow we all manage to still eat seafood.

there is a huge amount to your post, so I will start with your first argument, since it seems to be the party-line response/push-back to those concerned about envirornmental impact.

YES. The earth creates oil. It also burries it deep underground for gradual release. That is why we spend billions to drill very, very deep to source it.

If nature wanted this much oil dumped into the system at once we wouldn't have to do that. Does that make sense?

Feces/Manure is as "natural" as it gets and is great for gardens. Add too much and you are eating feces, not vegatables...get it? Want to smear some of that "natural" stuff on your oysters?

Peanut Butter will cause cancer in rats if given in ungodly proportions...as will most things.

It is about us short-circuiting the natural system. Oil is meant to be released over Millions of years by nature, that is why it is buried so deeply and nature has systems in palce to process oil in those quantities and over eons...not days.

This oil spill won't destroy nature in the long-term. Nature is pretty damn impressive and mankind will go extinct long before "nature" is at risk.

That's the problem IMO. The survival of the human species is a short term equation to "mother nature". The resultant economic/envirornmental/health impact is nothing more than an imuno-response by nature looking to reduce a species population.

Get it? Oil is natural...and the consequences of the oil industry are "natural" too. This is a debate about how and when "nature" will shake our species off the globe like a bad cold. I'd rather we just wised up.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by maybereal11]

[edit on 17-5-2010 by maybereal11]

well thats what we want anyway after all look at the treads with the most flags.
the earth will end version 1002 like if we try hard enough it will.
I know susicidel tendencies when i see them being that way my self I wake up every day saying I want to live I want the human race to go on.
Funny im the one who feels like dieing but you all are the ones who glory in it.
and you think im nuts? lol

Originally posted by Z.S.P.V.G.
The posts i could generate with a media and research staff.... like those neat spirals in OPs avatar that you just can't look away from.

I wish I had a media team! If I did I'd have finished that damn film that those images were from exposing how the Left use "Global Warming" the same as the Right the "Global War on Terror" to push forward the same Strong AI (skynet'esque) agenda. Considering I'm years behind on that project, I can't fathom why my "media team" hasn't gotten around to at least removing the "coming soon" bit of the av' and reuploading it.

Whatever you say, IgnorantnotBliss, this is an EPIC event that has all the ingredients to change the world as we know it. But it's a slow burn, a really hard boil.

THis is a major crisis, and it is a big deal, but can anyone show historical examples of how this new leak ordeal could be interpreted as anything resembling "extinction" level nightmare? History proves otherwise.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Please supply us with some evidence (links etc.) of how the siphon tube and chemical dispersants are working. Please find some video of the spill as it is now, after the siphon tube was inserted. Then maybe other real scientists can evaluate whether the oil flow is slowing or staying the same, or getting worse.

Please quit grandstanding that everything is OK, until you have some evidence to prove so. You are starting to sound like a cheap cheerleader for BP/Big Gov./other sickos/


[edit on 17-5-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by maybereal11


Actually you don't eat the manure, the plants just wont grow in it. Fungus and bacteria do instead. You have to let it cook a good while, and then still mix it in with other soil to get the right ratios. Then you have prime soil.

As I've said, the immediate areas directly hit by it face serious problems. Others face residual problems, not catastrophic full Gulf scale problems as we're being impressed upon. Eventually all of these problems go away.

Honestly I don't have TV so I dont know what's being told verbatim, but I know I've talked to many people who do watch it everyday and they're freaking out. I was freaking out. I didn't know anything about Ixtoc, the modern result of the Gulf War spill, the 4000 platforms already in the Gulf, natural oil seepage, 'asphalt volcanoes', or even tar being on Texas beaches, likely mostly naturally. I've never seen crude oil, but I have seen burnt motor oil. Neither are good, but I had never even thought enough into their differences to consider that petro products we create are actually worse than the source oil. I had had some idea about there being bacteria designed to eat it, but I had thought humans genetically modified bacteria to do it.

Is this good for people, no. Is this good for the environment, no. Do we face extinction from this or other spills, no. If we did then consider this:


Does anyone have conflicting data that debunks that image??

[edit on 17-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by 1SawSomeThings
Please supply us with some evidence (links etc.) of how the siphon tube and chemical dispersants are working. Please find some video of the spill as it is now, after the siphon tube was inserted. Then maybe other real scientists can evaluate whether the oil flow is slowing or staying the same, or getting worse.

I never claimed to know how much oil is leaking. My area of expertise in science isn't even in fluid dynamics and the ilk. But when I see people using worst case numbers and screaming them as total fact, when nobody actually knows, then I know its BS.

Please quit grandstanding that everything is OK, until you have some evidence to prove so. You are starting to sound like a cheap cheerleader for BP/Big Gov./other sickos/

Please show historical examples that suggest we are all doomed! Please quote me where I said that the immediate area isnt screwed.

My real point with all this is to ease these ideas of EXTINCTION...


[edit on 17-5-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

It's a far cry from saying this is serious and that could possibly happen, and running around screaming "we're doomed!"

Most of what has upset you seems to have been folks pointing out that this is far more serious than you want to believe.

For the record, I personally have never mentioned "flaming hurricanes", you brought that up out of context. What I said was that when a hurricane hits the gulf, we will be dealing with hydrocarbon-laden waters and rain.

Does anyone seriously dispute this?

What I've projected and questioned is the added effect of the dissolved methane gas that would be dispersed into the atmosphere, again, something that needs considering. When a hurricane hits the Gulf and roils these contaminated waters, it will spread the oil/methane spill far inland.

The seafloor collapse due to a massive methane hydrate sublimation event is a possibility. Not a very large one, hopefully a miniscule one, but still a possibility. I'd rather think it through before hand and figure out what might be done to mitigate or prevent it in the first place than try to think up solutions on the fly.

No matter what, the world will survive.

How the people and critters who live on and in the Gulf will fare is another story.

Rationally examining possibilities is not doomsaying just because a lot of the possibilities are bloody awful. Mature folks can examine extremes, account for them, and focus on what is likely to be helpful, knowing what the costs of errors might be.

An attitude of "no sweat, been there before, don't worry" can get a lot of people killed when it turns out your assumptions were incorrect and the pertinent factors differ in scale, use, and sensitivity of location.

Originally posted by Sarkron
Headline at Huffington Post:

Oil Spill Florida Keys: Scientists Think Oil Has Entered Loop Current And Poses Grave Threat To Reefs

See. They report it like a blob, such as the one from Creepshow 2, is headed down there to envelope all of the reefs:




In reality by the time is swashes with trillions of gallons of saltwater it wont sweep thru there like a BLOB.

Satire:



For Louisiana the chemical dispersants are surely not good. But by the time they make it down to the Keys it wont be a blob. Even 50 million gallons of dispersed oil would be vastly diluted after mixing with almost literally 100 TRILLION of gallons of water. This is the sort of fearmongering I'm talking about. There will be no net benefit to the Keys for the 'blob' to pass thru there on its way out to the Atlantic, but thats where the blob needs to go and by the time the blob reaches the Keys it wont be so slick.

[edit on 17-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

i hadn't seen anyone claim this was an extinction level event. i think if you took a debate class, that would really help you. you tend to bring up irrelevant facts or you find an article here and there that claims 'its not so bad' when for every article you find like that there are 10 more, more credible articles that claim otherwise.

as I said, no one thinks this is an extinction level event, where are you getting that from? one or two people on this board? in the news? where?

that being said if a nuclear bomb goes off in a major city its not an extinction level event. but its pretty bad, and thats what we are trying to tell you.

please please, take your own advice, research all the evidence and make up your own mind. it seems you are self censoring yourself to believe its not that bad.

i know you live in Florida, heck I was planning on taking a trip down to the florida keys next month, but I changed my plans and I"m going to Las Vegas instead JUST IN CASE the oil makes it way over to Florida. i think maybe you are a bit worried and WANT to believe everything will be ok. i hope you are right,

but the facts point to this not being the case

[edit on 17-5-2010 by insideNSA]

It is an environmental problem / disaster – call it what you will. The actual amount of oil involved is not that great and as has been demonstrated in the OP it does seem to be overblown.

It seems to me that BP should be praised for the rapidity of their response and the effort they have put into getting a resolution. I hope the environmental impact is reduced by their efforts.

I have a few issues...

> Why is Obama involved anyway – apart from heath care this seems to be the subject which most vexes him. This was an accident resulting in fatalities, even when the cause was unknown the only thing Obama could do was blame BP and say “they’re gonna pay”! Not helpful.

> If BP was a US company would Obama be so personally involved? His actions seem to imply that everyone should “get BP”. Not helpful.

> Everyone whines because they see dollar signs. Easy money. It helps the US because a major foreign oil company is laid low by years by litigation and pointless pursuit having been given succour by Obama. Not helpful.

Maybe Mr Obama and all the squealing “death to BP” crowd should divert their attention to some of the major pollution which spills into the Gulf of Mexico from the Mississippi. See point two on this link. I cannot vouch for the accuracy, but it tells a sorry tale. DoSomething

Regards

So exactly what is the truth. I found this and it is frightening...

So is the amount 200,000 gallons a day... or 11 million barrels?

If this information is correct we are in big trouble:

"What's in a plume?' In today's report , George Ure calculates the volume of the newly discovered "plume". He estimates that the spill is more like 465 MILLION gallons per day, not the 200 THOUSAND gallons per day that the government is telling us. And the phrase "extinction level event" is now being tossed around:


However, credit to the NY Times and MSNBC for their report on Saturday which contained all three numbers:
10 miles long, 3-miles wide, and 300-feet thick.

The length of the underwater plume (which is of heaviest crude components like asphalt and paraffin and such) is given as 10-miles.

The width is report as 3-miles. But because we expect it's only 3-miles wide at its widest, maybe it's only one eighth of a mile wide (660') on average, or some smaller fraction like that.

And while the thickness is given as "300 feet", let's use one third sixth that number - just 50 feet - and then run out some basic numbers and see if the reported 210,000 gallons per day being spoon-fed to the MSM [Main Stream Media] is anywhere near measured reality, shall we?

Dim. Operator Units Multiplies to
L 52800
W X 660 34,848,000 sq/ft
H X 50 1,742,400,000 cu/ft
Gal/CuFt X 7.48 13,033,152,000 gallons
Days / 28 465,469,714 Gal/Day



/ 42 11,082,612 BBL/Day

Double post

[edit on 17-5-2010 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

ScienceDaily (Jan. 27, 2000) — Twice an Exxon Valdez spill worth of oil seeps into the Gulf of Mexico every year, according to a new study that will be presented January 27 at the Ocean Sciences Meeting in San Antonio, Texas.

But the oil isn't destroying habitats or wiping out ocean life. The ooze is a natural phenomena that's been going on for many thousands of years, according to Roger Mitchell, Vice President of Program Development at the Earth Satellite Corporation (EarthSat) in Rockville Md. "The wildlife have adapted and evolved and have no problem dealing with the oil," he said. www.sciencedaily.com...

OK...Who is Roger Mitchell, VP at Earthsat?

Earthsat owned by and now re-named MDA...

MDA's Geospatial Services provides Earth observation data, information products and services from aerial platforms and the majority of commercially available radar and optical satellites. These products and services are used globally for resource mapping, environmental monitoring, offshore oil and gas exploration..

gs.mdacorporation.com...

Just saying...If one man/company makes a claim that seems unusual in it's spin content, it doesn't hurt to follow the money.

I'll get to your chart next.



[edit on 17-5-2010 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by insideNSA

i hadn't seen anyone claim this was an extinction level event. i think if you took a debate class, that would really help you. ...as I said, no one thinks this is an extinction level event, where are you getting that from? one or two people on this board? in the news? where?

Someone cited this blog for one:

Either BP & gov’t are underplaying the hell out of this hoping to avoid wholesale panic around the Gulf Coast states (can’t blame ‘em…) OR this ‘oil volcano’ continues to be an extinction level event in the works. LINK

Hmm...

Is the Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill An Extinction Level Event?
The words "Extinction Level Event" have been used in recent articles to describe what we are facing. To scientists that means a whole lot. To the rest of us it is just a bunch of pretty words. Cue the part in the movie where the entire crazy disaster is broken down using a familiar metaphor that even the dumbest of the population can understand.
thesop.org...

The question remains: How much more damage can our planet handle from Man's arrogant pollution? At what point does all the chemical contamination, fertilizer runoff, carbon emissions and runaway oil pollution of the ocean add up to a global extinction event?

We're playing a global game of Russian Roulette right now with the future of human civilization... and the oil companies just can't stop pulling the trigger.
www.naturalnews.com...

Just talking people on the ground I can tell how the media has been framing it. You can frame things to remarkable degrees without using exact phrases such as E.L.E.

You are right tho, not everyone is putting it that way, but the extremity of the collective assumptions and predictions of possibilities is apocalyptic.

i know you live in Florida, heck I was planning on taking a trip down to the florida keys next month, but I changed my plans and I"m going to Las Vegas instead JUST IN CASE the oil makes it way over to Florida. i think maybe you are a bit worried and WANT to believe everything will be ok.

There you go. When everyday you've turned on the radio in the past couple weeks and you hear the Florida commerce secretary make a press statement that our 1,200 miles of beaches are untouched, and you can still come visit Florida it says a lot about the national psyche. We have 1,200 miles of beaches. You can come on down to Florida.

but the facts point to this not being the case

What facts??

[edit on 17-5-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]