God's Fingerprint On Creation Found!

Forget the universe, let’s start with something “simple”.

Just try to explain what causes brain activity to begin in an embryo.
At 6 weeks a human embryo begins showing electrical impulses. Why?

You figure that one out and you got the universe whooped!

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Americanist

How does firing up Call of Duty 4 or Modern Walfare 2 imply design? Are you pretending to be dense, or are you really coming unwound? In the aforementioned, Activision is the god apparently. That and some pissed off developers.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Americanist]

You're making the same argument as others already have. You compare something known to be designed to things that have an appearance of design. The argument implies that mathematical sequences in nature appear to indicate design, so it is design. I'll claim they don't appear designed to me, therefore it isn't. Subjective opinion is irrelevant. You'll need some evidence.

How do those games come off to a toddler? You're comparing something known by way of reasoning and experience. Subjective opinions aside... There you have it. I presented the case, so grow up already!

Originally posted by nenothtu
Fair enough. Your inability to supply this 'simple' request, or even offer the proper response, tells me all I need to know concerning the limits of your knowledge in the matter. Since I have the benefit of an education in physics and astronomy, the weakness in that non-response is glaringly clear. Here's a hint - wikipedia doesn't have the answer either.

Because of that response, my response to your query is likewise 'how about no,' I will not explain elementary logic to you. Find it in wikipedia.

I rest my case.

You made no case. You've provided no evidence. You made a flawed argument that the solar system should theoretically "fly apart" due to entropy, and that this indicates that the solar system was designed. I'm sorry but I doubt the value of whatever education you claim you received in physics or astronomy.

We can play this game some more if you wish. I'll ask for the evidence to support your claim, you can counter it by trying to ask questions about something unrelated. It'd be much better if you just finally provided the indisputable evidence that complex, organized systems always implied intelligence and/or design.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


So if it appears to be designed wouldn't logic say that is IS designed? "Every design has a designer", so if it appears to be designed then it must have a designer. This form of statement doesn't require any proof; it's just logic.

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Americanist

How does firing up Call of Duty 4 or Modern Walfare 2 imply design? Are you pretending to be dense, or are you really coming unwound? In the aforementioned, Activision is the god apparently. That and some pissed off developers.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Americanist]

You're making the same argument as others already have. You compare something known to be designed to things that have an appearance of design. The argument implies that mathematical sequences in nature appear to indicate design, so it is design. I'll claim they don't appear designed to me, therefore it isn't. Subjective opinion is irrelevant. You'll need some evidence.

How do those games come off to a toddler? You're comparing something known by way of reasoning and experience. Subjective opinions aside... There you have it. I presented the case, so grow up already!

What case? The one where things look designed to you so they just must be? Been there, done that a bunch in this thread. I'll just assume that you have no evidence since I have to keep asking.

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

So if it appears to be designed wouldn't logic say that is IS designed? "Every design has a designer", so if it appears to be designed then it must have a designer. This form of statement doesn't require any proof; it's just logic.

No. As it's been pointed out in this thread, complex and organized systems exist without any designer. This is due to the laws of physics, not designers. There's your logic.

reply to post by broahes


I agree.
"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others."
Thomas Jefferson

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Americanist

How does firing up Call of Duty 4 or Modern Walfare 2 imply design? Are you pretending to be dense, or are you really coming unwound? In the aforementioned, Activision is the god apparently. That and some pissed off developers.

[edit on 16-5-2010 by Americanist]

You're making the same argument as others already have. You compare something known to be designed to things that have an appearance of design. The argument implies that mathematical sequences in nature appear to indicate design, so it is design. I'll claim they don't appear designed to me, therefore it isn't. Subjective opinion is irrelevant. You'll need some evidence.

How do those games come off to a toddler? You're comparing something known by way of reasoning and experience. Subjective opinions aside... There you have it. I presented the case, so grow up already!

What case? The one where things look designed to you so they just must be? Been there, done that a bunch in this thread. I'll just assume that you have no evidence since I have to keep asking.

Part of knowledge is observation. Take nature in all her glory. You don't have to ask anyone... All you have to do is become a learned mind.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


To say that complex organisms live without a designer is your belief and opinion. How do such things get so complex on their own; just randomly by chance?

Is the law of physics your god?

[edit on 16-5-2010 by novastrike81]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

So if it appears to be designed wouldn't logic say that is IS designed? "Every design has a designer", so if it appears to be designed then it must have a designer. This form of statement doesn't require any proof; it's just logic.

No. As it's been pointed out in this thread, complex and organized systems exist without any designer. This is due to the laws of physics, not designers. There's your logic.

And so what is behind physics? Come on... Baby steps!

Originally posted by Americanist
Part of knowledge is observation. Take nature in all her glory. You don't have to ask anyone... All you have to do is become a learned mind.

Evidence is another part of knowledge. Critical thinking skills and some basic requirements for extraordinary claims can eliminate many erroneous, unsupported claims.

reply to post by novastrike81


In the entropic reality our current knowledge of Physics paints for us none the less.

2 a : the degradation of the matter and energy in the universe to an ultimate state of inert uniformity b : a process of degradation or running down or a trend to disorder

Merriam-Webster

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Too bad extraordinary is a subjective label.
This is a useless second line.

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

To say that complex organisms live without a designer is your belief and opinion. How do such things get so complex on their own; just randomly by chance?

Is the law of physics your god?

Actually, it is a fact, not my opinion, that complex organized systems exist without designers. They achieve this by obeying the laws of physics, not by randomness or chance.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Which does NOT preclude the concept of a "Prime Mover". Merely that a "supernatural" force is not required to maintain it.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Too bad extraordinary is a subjective label.
This is a useless second line.

Fair enough.

Let's say "unsupported claim" instead.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by novastrike81
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

To say that complex organisms live without a designer is your belief and opinion. How do such things get so complex on their own; just randomly by chance?

Is the law of physics your god?

Actually, it is a fact, not my opinion, that complex organized systems exist without designers. They achieve this by obeying the laws of physics, not by randomness or chance.

Examples? Where do they come from if not be design?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Like Black Holes, Dark Energy and etc?
Second line.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Which does NOT preclude the concept of a "Prime Mover". Merely that a "supernatural" force is not required to maintain it.

Include the quote you're responding to.

I'm not claiming there is no "prime mover". I'm requiring those who claim there is/was one to support it with evidence.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Americanist
Part of knowledge is observation. Take nature in all her glory. You don't have to ask anyone... All you have to do is become a learned mind.

Evidence is another part of knowledge. Critical thinking skills and some basic requirements for extraordinary claims can eliminate many erroneous, unsupported claims.

I couldn't agree with you more.