BREAKING NEWS! New York Times- Problem for Containment Dome in Gulf

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[edit on 9-5-2010 by Harrington]

Originally posted by LifeInDeath

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Why 90 days though......something ain't right!

Because it's very hard and takes a lot of time to drill two miles down into the Earth. Even more so when you are doing it from a platform that is floating another mile above that on the ocean. This is a very deep deposit of oil and very hard to get to. It's not just sitting right below the floor of the Gulf. We haven't even had the technology to do his kind of drilling for very long. All of this pushes the limits of what humans are currently capable of.

[edit on 5/9/2010 by LifeInDeath]

I actually read an interview with a BP employee and he said pulling off this directional drill will be comparable to threading a needle. We are unquestionably pushing the boundaries of current technology.
I still like the giant corkscrew idea as mentioned earlier in this thread.

a couple things

the "box" floated because the methane formed methane hydrates in the cold water
explained:
en.wikipedia.org...

methane, and the hydrates are less dense than water, aka float

if the methane level is way higher than they predicted, (as I am pretty sure it is, based upon the hole pressures) and it is being vented off as we speak, where is all that vapor. it is disolved in the sea water, and will "out gas" into larger bubbles as they reach the surface, decreasing their pressure, and increasing their temp. I have to wonder how smart the "controlled burns" are. If vapor clouds are forming above the site, that could make matters much worse. hypothis and speculation, only.

now, if the definition of insanity is:
doing the same thing, and expecting different results....

I have to ask myself how smart is it to drill another hole one using a drill rig thats older (technology probably is, too) that is equiped with all the same safety equipment as the Horizon was, using the same hardware (BOP, etc) and expecting it not to "have issues"
and how is a 2nd hole, that has to intersect the original 5" hole exactly, going to stop anything more than 1/2 the flow?

I hope and pray I am wrong, and they can stop it
but I suspect that more errors will take place first

oh, and the FAA has made it a no fly zone, too

tfr.faa.gov...

official news

www.incidentnews.gov...

dr

reply to post by dr dodge


Just wondering how much methane hydrates it took to make the containment box bouyant.

I mean one liter of methane hydrate contains 168 liters of methane.

So how many liters of the hydrate was enough to bouy the 100 ton cement and steel box in one day(?) x everyday since april 20th x 168!

Thats a lot of methane, hello massive global warming and possible global extinction event.

Its all in the wiki article you provided above.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by lunchmanstan]

reply to post by dr dodge


Thank you for your post. Hmmm.....I wonder why this area is now a "no fly" zone?...they don't want people taking pictures as the true magnitude of this disaster will cause mass panic.

reply to post by lunchmanstan


It occurs to me that the containment box might still be accumulating methyl hydrate wherever they put it if it is still vertical. That means it might, repeat, might, slowly start lifting off the seafloor. If it does, the lower pressure will allow the hydrates to expand into gas and the containment box eventually becomes a rocket.

Can someone with more detailed knowledge either confirm or debunk this thought?

Reply to post by A Novel

Dude, this is a conspiracy theory website. Most people that come here believe in conspiracy theories. If you don't like it then stop coming here. You can find an environmentalist forum somewhere else I'm sure.

I do care about the evironment, by the way. Afterall, I live in it. But you would rather run around making blanket acusations that no one here cares about the environment.

Go ahead. Make some phone calls. See where it gets you. Then come back and tell us how far you got cleaning up the oil spill with your phone calls.

You should learn not to be so judgemental. It can make people resent you. Contrary to what you apparently believe, you're not bigger, you're not better and you're not a better person than anyone here. You have no right to pass judgement and make blanket accusations.

Just becuase some of us cannot quit our jobs and run down to the gulf coast to help. Some of us have families to care for. Some of us have people that count on us. You can't just suspend the entire national workforce to go clean up an oil spill. That would do more damage than the oil spill itself. And not to mention some of us can't afford to travel to the gulf to help either. So take your accusations and judgements and leave.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by LifeInDeath

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Why 90 days though......something ain't right!

Because it's very hard and takes a lot of time to drill two miles down into the Earth. Even more so when you are doing it from a platform that is floating another mile above that on the ocean. This is a very deep deposit of oil and very hard to get to. It's not just sitting right below the floor of the Gulf. We haven't even had the technology to do his kind of drilling for very long. All of this pushes the limits of what humans are currently capable of.

[edit on 5/9/2010 by LifeInDeath]

If we have to wait 2-3 months to drill parallel holes I fear the enviromental damage may be irreversable. I really do but of course I am no expert.

It seems everything is being handled extremely amateurish, from disaster prevention to disaster relief. Why the heck do they not simply weld steel pipping from the well head up to the surface, some 5000 ft and DRAIN the oil into big tanker ships? Is BP too cheap to lease ships? Why don't the british and american governments get involved AT ALL? Why the media blackout?

As for pushing technology to the limits your comments are a joke! Los Alamos National Laboratories has patented nuclear/electrical tbms from the 70's that can excavate about 20 miles a day, muck-free.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6350ea77c350.gif[/atsimg]

[edit on 10-5-2010 by EarthCitizen07]

Hi all, well it seems if the 1st dome don't work..... try a smaller one

www.upstreamonline.com...

The small dome will be connected by drill pipe and riser lines to Transocean's drillship Discoverer Enterprise. Wells said the dome would be connected to the drillship and will be operational before it is lowered 5000 feet to the seabed. Deployment of the five foot by four foot dome should be within the next 72 hours, Hayward said, adding that the company believed it had overcome the problem of gas hydrate formation, which had rendered the larger "Macondome" useless.

then says

It had planned to combat possible hydrate formation by heating the riser via an internal pipe circulating hot water, as well as injecting methanol down the riser from the Discoverer Enterprise, which is sited above the dome.

Do you think its wise to have it connected directly to a boat at these extreme pressures as they put it into place ??
Surely this is mad as the pressure if blocked would push the dome & pipe back especially @170,000psi

Originally posted by kozmo
I'm not overly religious, but this just sticks out like a sore thumb...

Revelation 8:8-11 (New King James Version)

Second Trumpet: The Seas Struck

8 Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. 9 And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

Has anyone seen the pictures of the oil spill? What color is it? What does it look like to you? Don't know what to make of it, but I'm becoming more and more a man of faith!

I agree with you that the Bible is describing several types of disaster that are obviously going to happen as soon as men start to do what men like to do. If only men would be only that which is pleasing to the Holy Spirit. In the quote it speaks about the sea turning to blood. It was clear from what I saw in the TV report that the crude oil from the spill is a blood red colour. The sea can often be a red colour because of red coloured "planktons" that live at the surface. One by one the prophecies contained in the Bible are being fulfilled. Remember that the Bible says that the armaggedon will be over in just one hour from start to finish. Such prophecy only makes sense in this age of intercontinental nuclear weapons. The Bible also warns about apocalypse of the biological warfare too.

On a technical note [this being a thread in the science forum] I think that the oil men are not comprehending the laws of physics. At five thousand feet under the water methane gas is not a gas. It is a kind of "snow". Another thing which the oil men are not comprehending is that 100 tons of metal weighs 100 tons when at sea level. As soon as you lower it into the water it immediately weighs less than 100 tons. Lower it to five thousand feet under that water and it will be as light as a feather. This is called "buoyancy". Thus the oil men are having problems because they are trying to defy the fundamental laws of the universe. I looked at the capping device and immediately knew that it was completely pathetic. The men are thinking far too small. In order to cap such a deep water gusher they would have to create such a huge structure such that it is engineeringly impossible to create such a structure. It would have to be be kilometers wide and kilometers high cone structure weighing up to a million tons. Obviously gigantic. Obviously impossible. No matter what the size of the capping device never the less at 5000 feet depth it would weigh no more than the weight of a feather. This is called "buoyancy". There is no way around it. My opinion is that the oil men took a gamble. They were hoping it would be okay, but all along must have feared the possibility of what has happened. Now it has happened there is not much they can do. It will continue to spill oil until the methane snow builds up around it and eventually envelopes the oil gushing out. Similar as to how ash accumulation prevents lava spilling out of a volcano crater. Thankfully [I am informed] 80% of the emission is methane snow, thus this accumulation of this methane snow will sooner or later envelope and block the oil flowing up. First and only priority should be to stop the gusher. No more thinking to exploit this oil field. Deep water drilling is a new science. Drilling a second drilling will only create a further gusher like as this one. What does it take to get the oil men to realise that this particular deep water oil field is not exploitable. This disaster will repeat it self where so ever that the oil men drill in deep water. Thus worldwide all deep water drilling should stop. The methane snow should be handled with great caution. The crystals are highly explosive. It were these methane snow crystals coming up the tube to the oil rig that caused the explosions which killed the eleven workmen and sunk the rig. First a pressure explosion as the crystals [one litre] sublimate turning immediately into [one hundred and sixty eight litres] gas. Then seconds later that gas igniting and like a hydrogen bomb exploding. Gas explosions are very dangerous. Very lethal. Also suffocation is possible.

[edit on 11/5/2010 by CAELENIUM]

reply to post by scottishdave


What bothers me more is using hot water to melt the "ice".

Did they forget that this particular kind of ice is highly explosive when turned into a gas, and said gas expands hugely from the solid form? What's to keep it from turning into a huge pressurized gas bubble shooting back up the pipe?

Isn't this where we came in?

Originally posted by dbloch7986
Reply to post by A Novel

 

Dude, this is a conspiracy theory website. Most people that come here believe in conspiracy theories. If you don't like it then stop coming here. You can find an environmentalist forum somewhere else I'm sure.

I do care about the evironment, by the way. Afterall, I live in it. But you would rather run around making blanket acusations that no one here cares about the environment.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Sorry dude, but this "Science Section" of ATS is not about conspiracy theory. If you look you will notice that this Science Section is about "Discussion of climate change, pollution, and environment issues". So if you do not wish to respond to the thread in such a "Discussion of climate change, pollution, and environment issues" in a science mode then I advise that you go to your "conspiracy theory" section where you will be so much happier.

[edit on 11/5/2010 by CAELENIUM]

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

Dear EarthCitizen07, do not be so quick to think that your Army technology is the solution. You seem to be oblivious [no insult intended] as regard to the environment at 5000 feet depth of water. Your patented Army device is for tunneling into granite bedrock in areas of dry earth. Such device would be of no use and probably completely disfunctional under the water. Manned submarines only operate to a depth of 100 feet. This is not because the hull would crush. Crush depth is 1000 feet depth. The problem is decompression sickness and it is lethal. The gusher is at 5000 feet depth. Thus the oil men are using new types of robot submarine craft that are remotely controlled. A full 80% of the emission is methane. At 5000 feet depth of water the methane is not a gas. It is a type of "methane snow". That is to say that 80% of the substance emmitting from the vent is this "methane snow". The cause of the trouble is the "methane snow" being so volatile. One litre of the crystals apon decompression immediately sublimates into one hundred and sixty eight litres of methane gas. This is an extremely explosive force. That is what killed the rig workers. Then a split second later comes the ignition [oxygenization] and one huge very lethal explosion which sent the rig to the bottom. These deep water oil fields are impossible to exploit. Either the oil men learn the easy way or, as seems to be the case, they will learn the hard way. At 5000 feet depth of water the metal and concrete structures they are constructing, no matter how big, will weight little more than the weight of a feather. This is what is called "buoyancy". I know this from my Navy experience. Submarines.




[edit on 11/5/2010 by CAELENIUM]

Originally posted by EliyahuHaNave
You don't actually think they cleaned up the oil here in Alaska do you? It still stains the beaches and rocks. Whole fisheries went under because of them. When you can still go down to the beach in places and dig down, only to find crude? This is epic, and not in a good way, sorry to say it, we're screwed. Sure, they mopped up the top ten percent in AK, but the impact on the economy is still vibrant today. I was there, and am still. No one at any time has come up with a means to take it back out of the environment, though I will say this in hopes that someone, somewhere is listening. There was a certain product, I believe it is still used by ambulance crews to encapsulate human blood. It goes on in powder form, and then foams up once it reacts with oil, blood, forming what looks like a huge chunk of Styrofoam. It worked here, don't know why they aren't using it there? Dispersants contain distillates of petroleum as far as I know, and are just as damaging to the environment as the oil in the water, making it more fluid, losing its surface tension, causing it to migrate farther into the food chain then it would have.. Dry grass, and hay work when pulled in a purse seine, though then you have to burn it, though if hay is empty cellulose, it seems that it could be solubilized.
Again people, what you are seeing is only approximately the top 5% and here, they only reclaimed the top 10% of that. Divers in Alaska found that the crude was present in a good 15-30 foot swath below the surface, and that is for a surface spill. They also found that it was most highly concentrated in the ocean floor, mixed with sediment, and it's still there to the best of my knowledge. Again, we lost whole fisheries! We lost communities! We've lost lives due to exposure! Here's a question, how do we keep the birds which migrated north for the summer, from going back down there and dieing? Exxon has never paid out, and never will, everyone lost interest because the oil sank. But if you pull up a fish here, nine times out of ten it will exhale brown droplets from its gills. The people that eat them suffer from all kinds of problems, food chain people!

It goes with out saying that the tragidy that hit Alaska is now hitting the Gulf of Mexico. However, the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico is actually hundreds of times larger. As you correctly point out 80% of the slick is under the water surface and most of the slick will lay on the sea bed polluting for ages to come.

[edit on 11/5/2010 by CAELENIUM]

Originally posted by CAELENIUM
On a technical note [this being a thread in the science forum] I think that the oil men are not comprehending the laws of physics. At five thousand feet under the water methane gas is not a gas. It is a kind of "snow". Another thing which the oil men are not comprehending is that 100 tons of metal weighs 100 tons when at sea level. As soon as you lower it into the water it immediately weighs less than 100 tons. Lower it to five thousand feet under that water and it will be as light as a feather. This is called "buoyancy". Thus the oil men are having problems because they are trying to defy the fundamental laws of the universe. I looked at the capping device and immediately knew that it was completely pathetic. The men are thinking far too small. In order to cap such a deep water gusher they would have to create such a huge structure such that it is engineeringly impossible to create such a structure. It would have to be be kilometers wide and kilometers high cone structure weighing up to a million tons. Obviously gigantic. Obviously impossible. No matter what the size of the capping device never the less at 5000 feet depth it would weigh no more than the weight of a feather. This is called "buoyancy". There is no way around it. My opinion is that the oil men took a gamble. They were hoping it would be okay, but all along must have feared the possibility of what has happened. Now it has happened there is not much they can do. It will continue to spill oil until the methane snow builds up around it and eventually envelopes the oil gushing out. Similar as to how ash accumulation prevents lava spilling out of a volcano crater. Thankfully [I am informed] 80% of the emission is methane snow, thus this accumulation of this methane snow will sooner or later envelope and block the oil flowing up. First and only priority should be to stop the gusher. No more thinking to exploit this oil field. Deep water drilling is a new science. Drilling a second drilling will only create a further gusher like as this one. What does it take to get the oil men to realise that this particular deep water oil field is not exploitable. This disaster will repeat it self where so ever that the oil men drill in deep water. Thus worldwide all deep water drilling should stop. The methane snow should be handled with great caution. The crystals are highly explosive. It were these methane snow crystals coming up the tube to the oil rig that caused the explosions which killed the eleven workmen and sunk the rig. First a pressure explosion as the crystals [one litre] sublimate turning immediately into [one hundred and sixty eight litres] gas. Then seconds later that gas igniting and like a hydrogen bomb exploding. Gas explosions are very dangerous. Very lethal. Also suffocation is possible.

[edit on 11/5/2010 by CAELENIUM]

I think I understand what you are talking about, but the mistake would be trying to cap off the well BEFORE THE OIL(AND MEHTANE) REACHES THE WATER SURFACE! The surrounding water pressure creates extreme buoyance for any metalic surface and the oil(plus methane) gushing out of the rig has its own tremendous pressure, therefore the only logical thing to do IS LEAD THE OIL UP TO THE SURFACE to either collect it in oil tankers or ATTEMPT to cap it off THEN and only then.

In other words PRIMING the RIG to get rid of methane crystals and allow oil to flow naturally up the pipping. Off course I may be wrong but this what my physics teachings and common sense tell me......

As for the buoyancy issue can't they use depleted uranium pipes or some other type of heavy metals, maybe weld those pipes somehow to the broken rig on the sea bed...you know what I mean?

Originally posted by CAELENIUM
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Dear EarthCitizen07, do not be so quick to think that your Army technology is the solution. You seem to be oblivious [no insult intended] as regard to the environment at 5000 feet depth of water. Your patented Army device is for tunneling into granite bedrock in areas of dry earth. Such device would be of no use and probably completely disfunctional under the water. Manned submarines only operate to a depth of 100 feet. This is not because the hull would crush. Crush depth is 1000 feet depth. The problem is decompression sickness and it is lethal. The gusher is at 5000 feet depth. Thus the oil men are using new types of robot submarine craft that are remotely controlled. A full 80% of the emission is methane. At 5000 feet depth of water the methane is not a gas. It is a type of "methane snow". That is to say that 80% of the substance emmitting from the vent is this "methane snow". The cause of the trouble is the "methane snow" being so volatile. One litre of the crystals apon decompression immediately sublimates into one hundred and sixty eight litres of methane gas. This is an extremely explosive force. That is what killed the rig workers. Then a split second later comes the ignition [oxygenization] and one huge very lethal explosion which sent the rig to the bottom. These deep water oil fields are impossible to exploit. Either the oil men learn the easy way or, as seems to be the case, they will learn the hard way. At 5000 feet depth of water the metal and concrete structures they are constructing, no matter how big, will weight little more than the weight of a feather. This is what is called "buoyancy". I know this from my Navy experience. Submarines.

[edit on 11/5/2010 by CAELENIUM]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting. I realise nuclear/electric tbms have nothing to do with deep water oil rigging.

My point was I believe lots of covert technology exists "somewhere" and is either not being used at all OR being used for the wrong reasons. What people know about and what is actually true can be miles apart.....

Thanks for the discussion.

I posted here a long time ago but I lost my log in so I am here as Fancy. I rather not keep the old me anyhow.

anyhow look here:

news.mobile.msn.com...

It mentions they were disciplined for sex and drug abuse in 2008.

I have been worried about this greatly and I been not finding a lot of info so I decided to chime in here and i did not know the hole is 5 feet wide. That how talk I am.

Originally posted by DOADOA
i have a feeling BP caused this catastrophy on purpose thinking that dome was an easy fix. why? i really don't know, but this is fishy. just my opinion. now the real problem begin, this isn't what they expected and have no clue how to fix it.

[edit on 9-5-2010 by DOADOA]

I am or the Venus Project myself. I looked outside the box and I saw what the box is and I don't like what I saw.

Originally posted by RRokkyy
reply to post by discl0sur3

 

THEY SHOULD TAKE THE COST OF THE CLEANUP DIRECTLY OUT OF THE PERSONAL ASSETS OF THE TOP 1,000 RICHEST EMPLOYEES OF BP.

But I am sure most of you capitalists who worship money wont like
that idea.

Originally posted by CAELENIUM

Originally posted by EliyahuHaNave
You don't actually think they cleaned up the oil here in Alaska do you? It still stains the beaches and rocks. Whole fisheries went under because of them. When you can still go down to the beach in places and dig down, only to find crude? This is epic, and not in a good way, sorry to say it, we're screwed. Sure, they mopped up the top ten percent in AK, but the impact on the economy is still vibrant today. I was there, and am still. No one at any time has come up with a means to take it back out of the environment, though I will say this in hopes that someone, somewhere is listening. There was a certain product, I believe it is still used by ambulance crews to encapsulate human blood. It goes on in powder form, and then foams up once it reacts with oil, blood, forming what looks like a huge chunk of Styrofoam. It worked here, don't know why they aren't using it there? Dispersants contain distillates of petroleum as far as I know, and are just as damaging to the environment as the oil in the water, making it more fluid, losing its surface tension, causing it to migrate farther into the food chain then it would have.. Dry grass, and hay work when pulled in a purse seine, though then you have to burn it, though if hay is empty cellulose, it seems that it could be solubilized.
Again people, what you are seeing is only approximately the top 5% and here, they only reclaimed the top 10% of that. Divers in Alaska found that the crude was present in a good 15-30 foot swath below the surface, and that is for a surface spill. They also found that it was most highly concentrated in the ocean floor, mixed with sediment, and it's still there to the best of my knowledge. Again, we lost whole fisheries! We lost communities! We've lost lives due to exposure! Here's a question, how do we keep the birds which migrated north for the summer, from going back down there and dieing? Exxon has never paid out, and never will, everyone lost interest because the oil sank. But if you pull up a fish here, nine times out of ten it will exhale brown droplets from its gills. The people that eat them suffer from all kinds of problems, food chain people!

It goes with out saying that the tragidy that hit Alaska is now hitting the Gulf of Mexico. However, the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico is actually hundreds of times larger. As you correctly point out 80% of the slick is under the water surface and most of the slick will lay on the sea bed polluting for ages to come.

[edit on 11/5/2010 by CAELENIUM]

Very good information, thank you for posting.
I just wanted to make one correction on your statements. You mention that the leak is 5000 feet below the surface...it's actually 5000 meters, approximately a mile....much deeper.

Originally posted by discl0sur3
I just wanted to make one correction on your statements. You mention that the leak is 5000 feet below the surface...it's actually 5000 meters, approximately a mile....much deeper.

Acoording to BP it is 5000 feet (not metres) www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com...