The Reason for Secretive Satanic Organizations

Originally posted by ReelView
This is incredibly naive. Now the goal is to rewrite the general meaning of a demon from malevolent to benevolent? A demonic spirit is in a particularly adverse karmic condition or they wouldn't be hanging around. Depending on the persons condition they may, for a time, benefit from such an encounter but to view it as a positive spiritual practice is misguided. There are angels and gods of higher material regions for which association is of some limited value but what you want is an association with beings who come from the purely spiritual regions, those acquainted with them or, at the least, much higher material regions. No the world isn't wrong about demons and people shouldn't be fooled into imagining they have good and benevolent intentions. The odds are very much against that being the case. Beware, the mind is a terrible liar.

Suffice it to say: this is disinformation. If the mind is a terrible liar, by the way, aren't you in just as much limbo as I concerning demonic intentions. The only difference is, I deal with demons. They have never lied to me yet.

So you says demons require a favor in return-

is that why you started this thread? just curious

reply to post by satanictemple


we have a basic understanding of good and evil. that is the most basic understanding of man. wouldn't you classify demons as "evil"?

If so, why would you willingly attempt to communicate with them?

Are you at all worried that your "Control" is just an illusion?

Please note, I am not bashing your choices here, just trying to learn a bit.

Actually, "demon" is just a derivation of the Greek "daemon", which originally carried no negative connotations. It was medieval Christian propaganda that turned all pagan ideas into "evil spirits" and "fallen angels".

Originally posted by ISHAMAGI
Satanism itself is anti-christian all other rituals and evocations come from pagan and occult and secret societies that existed before the Bible was even dreamed of.

Well, not exactly. Even the ancient evocations have many conatations and prayers asking the God for protection....

Before commencing operations both the master and his disciple; must abstain with great and thorough continence during the space of nine days from sensual pleasures and from vain and foolish conversation; as plainly appeareth in the Second Book, Chapter 4. Six of these nine days having expired, he must recite frequently the prayer and confession as will be told him; and on the seventh day, the master being alone, let him enter into a secret place, let him take off his clothes, and bathe himself from head to foot in consecrated and exorcised water, saying devoutly and humbly the prayer, 'O Lord Adonai,' etc., as it is written in the Second Book, Chapter 2.

Source

THE PRAYER.

ARACHIO, ASAC, ASACRA, BEDRIMULAL, FILAT, ARABONAS, IERABILEM, IODODOC, ACHAZEL, ZOPHIEL, PLAUTEL, BARACATA, EDONIEL, ELOY, EMAGRO, ABRAXATE, DREBARACH, ZAMUEL, CADAT, ERA, ELY EXA, AMISTRA, MACHED, DANIEL, DAMA, ELAMOS, BRACHEL, BEEL, SEGEN, GEMON, DEMAS.2

O Lord God, who art seated upon the Heavens, and who regardest the abysses beneath, grant unto me thy grace I beseech thee, so that what I conceive in my mind I may accomplish in my work, through thee, O God, the sovereign ruler of all, who livest and reignest unto the ages of the ages. Amen.

Source
The Art of Conjuring Spirits
THE KEY OF SOLOMON THE KING

Guess that why to me satanists are Christian in nature. Sometimes the role of God and Satan in the Bible gets me wondering if maybe a switch was made.

Yes, a switch was made, a fake God was introduced, and all power was directed toward the Dark Side of the God Force, the Great Dragon of Revelations. But, sadly, Christians do not see this, and are blind to it. And another thing, being a Satanist is akin to being a Christian, in that you are bound to a set of rules, have a book that is your guide, and send your worship to a creature made up by Christianity.

All that magic was being practiced for thousands of years before a creature named Satan was commonly thought of. That's why I don't get satanists the title is all sensational. It seems like its created to get attention not to hide.

Magick is still practiced today, and you would be surprised at how many do practice it, and what they use it for. And yes, Satanists do go in for sensational things....

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by satanictemple

 

we have a basic understanding of good and evil. that is the most basic understanding of man. wouldn't you classify demons as "evil"?

If so, why would you willingly attempt to communicate with them?

Are you at all worried that your "Control" is just an illusion?

Please note, I am not bashing your choices here, just trying to learn a bit.

Good and evil have been switched in the minds of humans. What is good is actually evil, and what is evil is actually good. I would classify demons as "evil" according to popular understandings of good and evil, but not fundamentally.

Originally posted by satanictemple

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by satanictemple

 

we have a basic understanding of good and evil. that is the most basic understanding of man. wouldn't you classify demons as "evil"?

If so, why would you willingly attempt to communicate with them?

Are you at all worried that your "Control" is just an illusion?

Please note, I am not bashing your choices here, just trying to learn a bit.

Good and evil have been switched in the minds of humans. What is good is actually evil, and what is evil is actually good. I would classify demons as "evil" according to popular understandings of good and evil, but not fundamentally.

I will vehemently disagree with that. The beer I had last night was GOOD. It could never be misconstrued as evil.

But really, that doesn't make any sense. People helping other people is good, and there is no other way to describe it.

Are you concerned that you might not understand control?

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by satanictemple

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by satanictemple

 

we have a basic understanding of good and evil. that is the most basic understanding of man. wouldn't you classify demons as "evil"?

If so, why would you willingly attempt to communicate with them?

Are you at all worried that your "Control" is just an illusion?

Please note, I am not bashing your choices here, just trying to learn a bit.

Good and evil have been switched in the minds of humans. What is good is actually evil, and what is evil is actually good. I would classify demons as "evil" according to popular understandings of good and evil, but not fundamentally.

I will vehemently disagree with that. The beer I had last night was GOOD. It could never be misconstrued as evil.

But really, that doesn't make any sense. People helping other people is good, and there is no other way to describe it.

Are you concerned that you might not understand control?

I understand the vehemence of your disagreement, as most people have the same reaction. However, when one really thinks of altruism, it is hard to deny that ALL altruistic actions are inherently selfish. Richard Dawkins is good on this. Any action that is altruistic and not simultaneously selfish is suicidal at worst, masochistic at best.

Beer is always good

Being someone who has been very close to the working of Satanism and the Church of Satan (the only real and registered Church of Satan), I can only say that people who go off creating their own Satanic religions are nothing but mocked by the CoS.

The real Church of Satan is a registered religion that is protected by the laws of America's religious freedom, and also pays taxes. They also have a documented history, reading materials, lawyers and all sorts of reasons to "actually believe they exist".

The CoS has done much to warn the public of the many many "invented and unofficial" cults/clans/grottos/groups/churches that have spawned illegally or illegitimately over the years. These groups are nothing but little pockets of people trying to do what the CoS has already done, but more often then not do it without knowing a damn thing about anything, and do so at the expense of "weak minded people".

The CoS has publicly denounced each and every one of these little "fake groups" and have also warned people that said groups are often dangerous or just "stupid".

The OP says his materials are kept secret because they are dangerous to the "new initiate"...that is total poppycock and about as "adult" as playing with legos in a box of sand all day, and then calling it a castle.

The OP's materials are not secret....they do not exist.

And if they do exist, make no mistake that they were produced on a laptop or personal computer and printed out of some guy's house. They are not dangerous,, since true Stanism teaches there is NO TRUE DANGER to the mind of a TRUE SATANIST.

This guy is a direct slap in the face of true Satanism and his OP comes off as a child who has never even spent a moment in the circles that he claims affiliation with.

Notice if you will...his reference to his Satanic Groups. Notice he mentions that "he himself invented those groups". I can only assume these secret works of Satanism are also self-invented works of fiction that he has created.

You are not a Satanist...you are not a master of darkness or anything as laughable as that.

You are peddling an amateur's personal hobby as something that is "Satanism".

Sorry friend...If the badly written posts you have shared here are any sign of the "secret works of your self created/false religion", then I have to tell you that 100% of all real Satanists would mock you before you had the time to express half of what you wrote here.

You do not represent the religion known as "Satanism". You have only stolen its name and then attempted to sound informed on it.

Wrong...Satanism is not about lying to the faces of everyone you meet in hopes to sound important on an online forum.

Satanism has NO secret works nor do they worship demons or anything remotely as silly as the things you shared here.

Satanism is a self-proclaimed group of geniuses (true or not), who do not fall for propaganda, religious lies or invented fears.

You are pushing an agenda to come off as some guru of Satanism...I ask you-

Where is your church?

Where are your members?

Where is anything that backs up your words?

Nowhere...you are simply attempting (badly) to create your own cult (not a bad thing mind you), but when you do so in a way that attempts to swindle or fools others- then you become a true enemy to the Church of Satan, and in becoming that- you ultimately become someone who would be forever shunned from its inner workings.

You are no Satanist.

And your little invented story of your invented groups with your invented materials are all just works of your overactive imagination.

You are the equivalence of a man who has never read the bible running off to reinvent Christianity in your tool-shed.

The Church of Satan openly mocks people who do what you are doing here.

You have no affiliation with the works of Satanism or any of the official groups registered as such.

You are just one of the countless "want-to-be-Satanic-priests" that the real Church of Satan publicly ridicules as nothing but a "sham/scam" or worse.

Good luck trying to sound like you have some kind of knowledge on this subject, when it is apparent to anyone within Satanism that you are just a badly-put-together farce promoting your own inventions.

Dangerous to new initiates?!!!

Don't make me puke from your lack of identifiable credibility.

Good luck stealing from the CoS...you will find it hard to compete with this sort of "fiction".

If they wanted to be seen with you and your group, trust me, they would be.

And then you would be real in the eyes of Satanism.

Sadly, you are just another grotto-maker. And all grotto-makers are seen as nonaffiliated madmen and possible dangers to all people who interact with them.

Demonic possession? Please...are you 12 years old?











[edit on 29-4-2010 by Mr Mask]

reply to post by Mr Mask


A suggestion for you: lather your next post in a little more condescension. There's a difference between arrogance and confidence. Theistic Satanists consider confidence to be a positive personal characteristic, whereas arrogance is seen to be a pitfall. The arrogance with which you write is astounding, and if anything in this thread has been grade-school thus far, it's been your school-yard type name-calling.

Concerning your points:

(1) The Church of Satan is not a theistic Satanist organization. Therefore, I care little about what the organization or the members think of me and other theistic Satanists.

(2) I see no reason that the Church of Satan should be considered the only "real" or "true" Satanic organization. Sure, it's registered, and it's one of the oldest modern Satanic organizations, but it too had a beginning. All organizations do. Your critique of the newness / uniqueness of some theistic Satanic groups simply does not make any logical sense to me.

I will refrain from responding to your more inane rants now and in the future.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by satanictemple]

Originally posted by satanictemple
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

A suggestion for you: lather your next post in a little more condescension.

Is that even possible? I thought my level of disgust was perfectly portrayed.

There's a difference between arrogance and confidence.

More meaningless mumbo jumbo circle-talk that I'd expect from any "up-start unofficial new guy trying to make a name for himself in Satanism".

Try staying relevant.

Theistic Satanists consider confidence to be a positive personal characteristic, whereas arrogance is seen to be a pitfall.

Let me correct you again young man...

The Official Church of Satan considerers confidence to be a positive personal characteristic...not your invented theistic club. If you are preaching it, you stole it from the real Church of Satan.

Much like half the buzz words and catch phrases you have also stolen in your little public cry for followers.

Who knows what crap your little made-up group practices or believes? Everything you have shared thus far shows you do not even have a defined doctrine, source of material or a body of work or any form of structure whatsoever.

The arrogance with which you write is astounding, and if anything in this thread has been grade-school thus far, it's been your school-yard type name-calling.

Grade school? Really? You are pretending to have access to demonic possession and secret knowledge, when we both know you are making things up to sound "somehow enlightened" or informed.

You give Satan a bad name...

You do not know how to summon demons and join at the hip with them. And any material you have that you use within your little "invented grotto" is nothing more then your personal fantasy and self-created fictional works.

You teach nothing. You invent everything.

You are selling a badly produced product of your own design, and you have as much access to the supernatural "Devil and his demons" as anyone has at jumping out a window and flying.

You call me arrogant for pointing out a hollow thing that can't even walk across a forum without being outed as a mockery.

Please...I am far from a glossy eyed moron who is about to hail you as the guy who can bring me to demons for power.

The real Church of Satan has published much to say about little groups like you.

Impostors pretend to be what the real CoS actually is.

Concerning your points:

Notice how you actually dodged all my points and made two nonsensical statements instead of actually addressing my concerns with your little invented group.

(1) The Church of Satan is not a theistic Satanist organization. Therefore, I care little about what the organization or the members think of me and other theistic Satanists.

Oh course you don't care what they say...but you still steal their dogma, doctrine and terminology overly.

Hmmm...the real Church of Satan never steals from you. I wonder why you borrow from them?

Perhaps because they have a foundation and a body of work?

(2) I see no reason that the Church of Satan should be considered the only "real" or "true" Satanic organization. Sure, it's registered, and it's one of the oldest modern Satanic organizations, but it too had a beginning. All organizations do. Your critique of the newness / uniqueness of some theistic Satanic groups simply does not make any logical sense to me.

AHH! WE ARE AT THE PLACE WHERE THINGS MAKE SENSE!

So... though your OP speaks for Satanists, as if you are part of their numbers, you now admit that your are seeking a "beginning" to a "new Satanism".

But wait...you are speaking for Theist Satanists...why must YOU invent a new religion for such a group? Wouldn't this group already exist since the concept of the devil is very old?

So...you are actually not speaking from a standpoint for Satanists.

You are just inventing stuff and pushing it.

There are no secrets hidden by "Satanists" to be shared here by you.

There is ONLY newly invented concepts that YOU personally invented.

And out of these things you are making up out of your own fantasies...you have invented new ways or "magical spells" to join your body with Demons...I see.

This is a farce. You are making things up and looking foolish in the process.

Am I being arrogant? No...I am being real, a thing ALL Satanists demand of themselves. You want to try and float on top of this made-up story of yours go ahead.

But If you want to promote your self-created cult on ATS-

Then I warn you (out of kindness)...its a sure road to anger the overlords and masters of this den.

I will refrain from responding to your more inane rants now and in the future.

As long as you personally keep making up stories and falsely promoting them as actual standing religions or doctrines, I will be adding to your threads.

After all...the worse thing that could happen if I allowed this to go unchallenged, is some poor member mistaking your inventions for actual ancient knowledge instead of seeing it for what it really is-

Unpublished rhetoric invented by a guy who makes cults that nobody acknowledges but himself.

Namely real Satanists.







[edit on 29-4-2010 by Mr Mask]

reply to post by Mr Mask


(1) Do you consider there to be only one true Church of Satan?

(2) How can you presume to talk about summoning demons when the Church of Satan is Deistic at best, but most probably atheistic?

Originally posted by satanictemple
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

I am so happy you have decided to go against your your own words on matters of not "responding to me".

(1) Do you consider there to be only one true Church of Satan?

Operating officially? Yes sir.

Make no mistake, there is no limit to the number of rag-tag juveniles wearing black lip stick and inventing "demon incantations" in their mother's basement.

Satan (the real one, or the fiction you are bubbling on about- pick either) is not interested in some guy's personal collection of "made up rituals based on western media".

You do not have a doctrine, a structured church or even a damn book of prayers. You have ADMITTED to inventing your own Satanic cults based on your own invented concepts (though you failed to comment yet on why you steal from the Church of Satan but declare yourself apart from them).

So, in effect...Yes, there is only ONE registered religion of Satanism in the world today. If you want to invent the second one, do so (until then stop talking for Satanists).

Don't come to ATS saying you know why Satanist organizations do anything...because you are not talking of Satanists. You are talking of whatever "cult" you created or are attempting to create.

And when you speak for Satanists it makes real Satanists look stupid.

And real Satanists are far from dumb.

(2) How can you presume to talk about summoning demons when the Church of Satan is Deistic at best, but most probably atheistic?

How can you come forward talking for Satanists of any kind when you do not belong to any official group or organization registered or recorded?

My point here...in case you missed it.

You are not a Satanist or a speaking force for such groups. You are just some guy inventing "stories" telling people that you know secret ways to summon demons.

You do NOT know how to summon demons, or how to benefit from ANY SORT of demonic possession, be it voluntary or forced.

In a blunt and forward way I say to you-

You are full of it. You are lying about having powers that you do not have. You are sharing things you have made up in your own mind.

The internet is a funny thing. It allows people to invent anything and then proclaim it to be real.

You and your little "self created" dogma is far from anything Satanic.

For by law of Satan, all things must be powerful.

And you with a handful of devil worshipers "lying to each other" is hardly anything powerful.

Like I said...do not speak for Satanists....someone may confuse you as really being one, and then a great insult would have been issued to Satanists around the world.

Demonic possession...please...comic book fantasies.














[edit on 29-4-2010 by Mr Mask]

reply to post by Mr Mask


I posted that I would not respond to inane comments of yours, most of which are. I have to weed through your "long-winded" posts to get to your actual points.

(1) Just because something is "registered" does not make it the only "real" or "true" thing of that category.

(2) I never claimed to be speaking for all those of any Satanic group.

(3) Since you're a LaVeyan Satanist, your point of view in relation to summoning demons, or theistic Satanism in general, does not carry much weight.

Originally posted by satanictemple
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

I posted that I would not respond to inane comments of yours, most of which are. I have to weed through your "long-winded" posts to get to your actual points.

Riiiiight. Sure, sure...makes sense.

And here I was thinking you went back on your convictions.

(1) Just because something is "registered" does not make it the only "real" or "true" thing of that category.

That may be true...but on the otherside of that coin-

Whenever you find yourself "inventing" demon-summoning spells, and then rushing off to tell people about it on a public forum on the internet- while insisting you know why Satanists keep secrets- chances are "none of that is real either".

(2) I never claimed to be speaking for all those of any Satanic group.

Yes you did...the title says "Satanic organizations", and speaks of "why they keep secrets".

Your little "fiser-price-my-first-devil-club" that you invented is not connected to "Satanists" of any kind.

It is the equivlance of me saying-

Why do bankers keep secrets?! And then I proceed to explain why because I invented a bank in my cellar and I am the only person who knows of this bank...so then I come to ATS to tell people all about it.

Of course you DO understand what I am saying...but you will continue to act as if my point is hollow.

(3) Since you're a LaVeyan Satanist, your point of view in relation to summoning demons, or theistic Satanism in general, does not carry much weight.

Well well well...looks like you ONCE AGAIN have made a grave error. I am not Lavayian Satanist.

So...by your words above, perhaps my words do carry weight after all?

Look kid, heres the deal.

You have a few years to grow up before people start calling BS on your play-time. If you want to try and sell "invented" stories of the devil to people, go ahead.

Just know a few things-

1) Creating your own cult and inventing your own magic is not going to make anyone believe you know secrets on anything.

2) You are not connected to anything Satanic, nor do you have access to any spells that make one possessed by devils. You made your material up out of thin air, and do not even have a "small group" behind your hogwash.

3) You do not have a church, a following, members or reading materials to back up anythiing you say about "Satanists". Your only understanding of the "occult" comes from stuff you wrote with your own hand. Nothing more.

Please...you are selling a child's fantasy as if adults are going to bite and chew.

It is amazing what one man is not embarrassed to be.

It is doubly amazing how far someone will go to pretend to be what they are not.

You sir are only here fishing for a few folks to find you "fantastic".

Sorry, I stopped playing "cowboys and demons" when I was ten years old.

Good luck being fake.

A real Satanist rather die then be a mockery of his own self.

just out of curiosity (not jumping into the line of fire, please), and keep in mind i know very little about satanism..., are there not, as there are in christianity, different denominations, or beliefs systems, or variations in satanism?

christians have baptists, catholics, lutherans, methodists, presbyterians, ect...

is there no other recognized variations of satanism?

S

reply to post by Mr Mask


(1) I have not "invented" the methods of demon summoning that we use. I have much more respect for ancient knowledge than that. There are, however, Satanic meditative methods I have tweaked, which I'm pretty sure most theistic Satanists would call a common practice.

(2) Those who operate other theistic Satanic organizations are free to chime in. The reasons I gave in the OP for keeping some methods secret are, in fact, the reasons most "secretive" initiate-type organizations keep some information secret.

(3) You have used the words "CoS" and "Anton LaVey" so much, you can forgive me if I mistook you for a LaVeyan Satanist.

reply to post by contrafear


Yeah, that's pretty much been my point in dialog with Mr. Mask.

Originally posted by contrafear
just out of curiosity (not jumping into the line of fire, please), and keep in mind i know very little about satanism..., are there not, as there are in christianity, different denominations, or beliefs systems, or variations in satanism?

Yes there are dozens of them and many are over 100 years old.

Sadly, this guy has invented his own and now speaks for Satanists as if his little "self created system" is somehow legitimate.

It is not.

He is not registered, aligned or even aware of the groups that teach Satanism (theistic or non).

He DOES on the other hand steal phases and buzz words from the world's only registered church of Satan.

Meaning...accept for what he steals, all he shares is fantasy that he has recently invented.

And since he has created his own religion (if you call it that), then his title of this thread is misleading. He is attempting to speak for Satanists, yet he isn't a member or working part of any of the standing organizations of Satanism.

It would be like me saying-

Us Democrats are all into orgies with devils and then we summon demons to make us have powers.

And once someone says- WAIT! Democrats do not do that! This guy quickly turns around and then says-

"well, not democrats that YOU KNOW! But the democrats I personally invented in my basement!"

Do you get my point?

christians have baptists, catholics, lutherans, methodists, presbyterians, ect...

All researchable and registered. Do a search on this guy and all you get is his blog where he is openly admitting to attempting to create a cult of his own.

It is not Satanism...its a product that he invented and is now peddling here to a new audience.

is there no other recognized variations of satanism?

Like I said...there are many. This guy is not part of any of them.

In fact, all real organizations of Satanism go through great lengths to separate themselves from loonies and con-men who create their own little cults and then attach Satan's name to them.

I would have no problem with this guy if he wasn't acting like he knew what Satanism was about. Because his personal works seem to be nothing more but stolen phrases from the real Church of Satan and a bunch of made up crap.

Really, its juvenile to invent lies about having secret information about demons (that you do not possess).

It is even sillier to say "the reason you do not know of this stuff is because people like me keep it secret".

Wrong...there is no secret...the guy has a blog site that screams for patrons and followers, all the while spewing his own made-up religion.

This thread is not a nod towards Satanism...if it was, there would be Satanic information being discussed.

The only thing the guy is sharing here, is an advertisement for his own silly inventions.

I hope that makes sense.

If you are looking for a REAL Satanist to explain REAL Satanic principles or practices, it is safe to assume you do not need to seek "the guy inventing his own in his basement and on his blog".

You wouldn't be able to scrape up 50 people who hail this guy as legit.

You wouldn't find him endorsed by anyone but himself.

Like I said...I know many Satanists of all kinds (literally thousands), and one thing they all have in common-

They ALL are sick of false Satanists acting as if they have powers to share.

Such people are self-serving, unstable, dishonest and unworthy of trust.

He is not seeking Satan...he is seeking a new audience for his "badly written" material that he has invented out of his own mind.

You want to join the NEW GURU...be my guest.

Just know that Satanism spits on weakness and stupidity.

And no form of Satanism teaches a single thing this guy is saying. It is all of his own invention and he should be honest in that fact and stop saying he is speaking for Satanists (plural). He is only talking about himself- since he is the ONLY one in his little invented group.

You want to learn about real Satanism? Well, you won't learn anything speaking with some guy makes his Satanism up on the spot.




[edit on 30-4-2010 by Mr Mask]

Originally posted by satanictemple
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

(1) I have not "invented" the methods of demon summoning that we use. I have much more respect for ancient knowledge than that. There are, however, Satanic meditative methods I have tweaked, which I'm pretty sure most theistic Satanists would call a common practice.

The only Satanic meditation practices that are published today are of the Church of Satan, Crowley and the sort.

There are ZERO (count them) published ancient works detailing the summoning of demons.

Another lie from the guy who is not even in the circle of what he preaches.

(2) Those who operate other theistic Satanic organizations are free to chime in. The reasons I gave in the OP for keeping some methods secret are, in fact, the reasons most "secretive" initiate-type organizations keep some information secret.

Let us not lose grasp on why you said these secrets are kept.

Because new initates may get hurt dabbling with such powerful secrets.

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!

Secrets, in any organization, are kept for a few reasons (none of them being to protect new members from demons).

(3) You have used the words "CoS" and "Anton LaVey" so much, you can forgive me if I mistook you for a LaVeyan Satanist.

I'm sorry, you have stolen so much from Doctor Lavey that I had to protest your use of his work/words/phrases.

Lord knows the poor dead guy can't return to tell you to "stop stealing his work" himself.

Again...good luck starting a cult. I doubt you will get anywhere with it.

If you ever need advice on how to do it successfully, give me a U2U.

PS- stop trying to use ATS to advertise your "newly created group" that you recently created on your own...it is so damn amateur to use someone else's website to try and collect traffic to your own. Shameful really.