BREAKING: Proof of survivors in Smolensk!

You are missing the point. When I see people suggesting that is a clean-up team it means the clean-up was premeditated. If that is the case the area was cordoned off beforehand. There is no realistic chance anyone who shouldn't be in the area was there running around with a camera. I don't care what anyone says - if you are planning the murder of 90 people you don't leave that kind of thing to chance. No way. 0% chance of that happening.

Which is why none of this makes any sense to me.

reply to post by D377MC


You are absolutely right (plus that this whole make-believe conspiracy is lame to begin with).

Can someone upload this vid to the ATS Media Server?

I, like many others, dont have access to Youtube while at work, and really really really want to check this out. Help a brotha out.

Fry

"Don't kill us!"
"BANG!"

Well, that seems to pretty much sum it up really, doesn't it.

They would not cordon off the area before the crash. They would do it exactly the way they did; be first on the scene, find any survivors and kill them and then leave. Easy.

It's just luck that somebody there was able to get out of the area with some early footage and then managed to get it uploaded.
It's unlucky for that guy that he then got stabbed on the street and then stabbed to death in hospital the next day.

Cordoning off the area and then causing a plane to crash into the same area would obviously be too much of a give-away.

What is obvious from the footage and it's sound is that people were shot dead at the scene.



Edited to fix a typo.

[edit on 29/4/2010 by Recouper]

Originally posted by Recouper
"Don't kill us!"
"BANG!"

Well, that seems to pretty much sum it up really, doesn't it.

And you know this from where?
Because you did research yourself to back up and confirm these rumors?
OR:
Because you chose to blindly believe something someone wrote on the internet?

It's unlucky for that guy that he then got stabbed on the street and then stabbed to death in hospital the next day.

[Same questions as above goes here]

What is obvious from the footage and it's sound is that people were shot dead at the scene.

[Same...again]


Come on people, we are here to deny ignorance (such as spreading rumors, believing in gossip, taking claims for facts, etc.) not to spread it...



[edit on 29-4-2010 by Raud]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Raud]

reply to post by Recouper


Sorry, you are asking me to believe that Russian special forces are amateurs...that is pushing it somewhat....

If I were planning to murder the dignitaries of another country, you would not 'luckily' be there to shoot footage of it. No way.

Do you have any idea of the implications of the world knowing Russia would do something like that?

They wouldn't of cordoned off the area? Wishful thinking...they would be extremely stupid not to.

As for the 'someone' being dead - that is an unconfirmed internet rumor for now: if it is not, kindly provide proof.

Cordoning off the area and then causing a plane to crash into the same area would obviously be too much of a give-away.

Close to a military base? No problem, they would probably arrest you just for hanging around on a normal day.

If you look at this objectively it doesn't make sense.


[edit on 29-4-2010 by D377MC]

Who filmed this? A bystander? So, if a bystander arrived on the scene to film, doesn't it make more logical sense that the others filmed walking around were also bystanders? I believe so.

Since it's on youtube, it must be the truth.

reply to post by Raud


Raud, it is pretty obvious that those were gunshots, fired through the barrel of a gun. In fact, I am almost absolutely certain of it, or as certain as one could possibly be. I give a pretty good explanation as to why I'm certain that those were gunshots, fired through the barrel of a gun, on the second page of this thread.

--airspoon

I'm not disputing the gunshots, I'm disputing the bystanders. All of a sudden the area adjacent to a military base where something incredibly delicate is about to go down is a picnic area swarming with bystanders? Please....I wouldn't make that mistake, and I definitely don't believe whoever was in charge did either - you wouldn't exactly get a slap on the wrist for a mistake like that you know....

reply to post by airspoon


Yeah, I saw that post.

I also think it sounds like gun shots. Still, the sound quality is too low to be any valid confirmation.
Plus, it might as well be ammo beloning to the bodyguards that went off.

However, the most important part that no one seems to care for is that sounds of gun fire does not equal assassination.
Why do people take this for granted?
I'll tell you why; ignorance (making up fairy tales to fuel anti-Russian emotions).

If the shots came from firearms, discharged not from fire but from mechanism, why can't they be warning shots to deter looters and bystanders that are drawn to the site like a moth towards a flame (not caring or knowing about the dangers)?

On another hand; an airliner contains sophisticated machinery and chemicals. These can also explode due to heat and given the right circumstances, sound like gunfire... It might be a streach, but it's possible.

There are numerous people on scene here. If Russian death-squads where in action, none of them would have left the place alive.

This whole joke of a conspiracy has been below average to start with, and it has been sinking ever since.

The only purpose it serves is gathering more anti-Russian views around the world through propaganda, disinfo and lies.
You seem like a smart dude; you should stay above this.



[edit on 29-4-2010 by Raud]

Raul, watch the vid again, @ 1:05 you can SEE a bullet hitting the ground.

It´s fine to take this with a grain of salt, but please don´t be blind (everybody).


[edit on 29-4-2010 by euleberlin]

I don't know what to make of it. It's poor audio and video quality. I've been around guns most of my life. I've fired semi- and automatic hand guns and rifles. I can't say for sure whether those rounds were discharged from a weapon or if they were random, strewn munitions going off. But, I'm nearly positive that it is ammunition being discharged one way or another.

But, the people filming is what gets me. Why are they there? I would guess that they came to help ... not just to gawk at the wreckage. So ... why aren't they helping? Why not check the wreckage for survivors?

Maybe because they hear gun shots? Maybe because they were frightened to approach any closer than they already were? That's my best guess.

I must have missed a post in the thread ... did someone say something about the cameraman being involved in an "accident" after he filmed this? Can anyone substantiate this claim?

[edit on 29-4-2010 by tyranny22]

reply to post by tyranny22


Yes the cameraman is said to have been stabbed and then taken to the hospital and then he was stabbed three times in his hospital bed and died.

As to why the cameraman did not focus on survivors and try to help...if guns were being fired he was probably just trying to escape with the footage to get it out to people on the internet.

The cameraman, who should not have been there in the first place, has been 'said' to have been killed for over a week now, yet no confirmation. How plausible is that?

Too many things that really do not add up. At all.

This is all I could find:

Link to Article

Baku – APA. The video made several minutes after the crash of Polish president’s plane near Smolensk, Russia is true, Military Prosecutor’s Office of Poland said, APA reports quoting CNN Turk.

The video shows three moving silhouettes, arms, person jumping from the plane, laughter and the pilot’s voice calling for help are heard. Poland’s Military Prosecutor’s Office said the documents related to the flight were being investigated, 60 gave testimonies, but it was impossible to specify the exact time of the crash.

The author of the video is reportedly Andrei Mendierej. He was stabbed shortly after the video was released on the internet. Andrei Mendierej was unplugged from the artificial respirator by an unidentified person.

I have not allowed the sensationalism of all this hype get to me and I have been viewing these clips over and over and over again. I think people are reading too much into this. Im not saying that something fishy is not going on here....but what Im reading here on ATS is just nonsense. You are either attention grabbing with spurious titles and headlines, or just plane gullible and stupid.
Yes, its a little bit suspect. But the evidence that everyone is using here on ATS is just utter rubbish.
1) Gun Shots – I also know what a gun sounds like. However its impossible to determine if there is a gun shot on this video. Fire equals a rapid escape of gas from certain objects. There could be burning wood, aircraft parts all popping and cracking in the heat. My own wood burner at times sounds bloody loud when I burn wood. You are making very troubling assumptions here based on nothing. ATS people you need to be a little more discerning...and less attention seeking. You are making wild assumptions.....this all reminds me of when some people though the world was flat....wild assumptions , no evidence, no knowledge.
2) Survivors in this video....WHERE? There are a few people walking around....as was the camera man and a few people with him. But how do you know there are survivors? Again, nothing, no evidence. Just a crap OP title that looks like its from a teenager with ADHD. Its like you are writing for a cheap chip shop tabloid news paper.
Yes we can all see people in the back ground – Prove they are survivors. They could just be other people like the camera man which happen to be in the area. Your Title to this thread is rubbish, you can’t prove anything mate. Thats just utter crap and you should be ashamed of making such statements.
3) POST FROM : GBP/JPY “i see military boys in the background walking...a group with an assignment...and from the watchers actions, those are shots and the onlookers are leaving because of that fact” – You’re quite stupid / gullible. How on earth from that video can you make out a military uniform...WHERE? You can’t. All I can see is a form of someone walking in the background. They could be wearing anything from a jump suit to a wooly jumper. STOP MAKING THINGS UP!!
4) Polish man who shot the film has been killed? – Right. So all I can see again is a load of made up crap pasted all over the web. And you are all SOOO convinced its the truth. There is not one main stream bit of media posting that info anywhere. ....and the main stream media I know is probably less believable than most media....but...the web is full of even more crap than main stream media.
And this statement from every flipin website out there: " Author of the video seen by everyone by now has been stabbed near Kijow on 4.15 and transported in critical condition to the hospital in Kijow. On 4.16 three unidentified individuals unplugged him from life support system and stabbed him 3 more times. Andrij was pronounced dead that afternoon. Russian government claims it was a coincidence. "
Has no source.....no identifiable track. Ergo....was this made up by some crack pot, or is it fact. The same quote is posted across a load of sites and again...there is no evidence anywhere that this statement is just a fabrication. For a start does Andrij not have a surname? Where is he from? Does he have a face book page? Are his family in outrage over his death...what was a Polish man doing at a Russian Hospital?
Plus I have looked at every video for “People jumping from a plan” ....Again...Rubbish. Are we meant to believe that a vague smudge that could be anything plant, animal or mineral is a person.
Just stop all this sensational, garbage and nonsense. Come up with Proper Facts, Evidence and start again.

Originally posted by Jdawg9909
reply to post by tyranny22

 

Yes the cameraman is said to have been stabbed and then taken to the hospital and then he was stabbed three times in his hospital bed and died.

As to why the cameraman did not focus on survivors and try to help...if guns were being fired he was probably just trying to escape with the footage to get it out to people on the internet.

Umm I thought this was proven to be a hoax, the cameraman is alive and well.

But what is going on here, nobody can say with 100% certainty but damn it does smell really fishy.

Would anyone be accepting the Russian explinations if this happened to Air force one?

No I didn't think so.

Well you would think that if the cameraman was still alive he would make a statement. The problem is the "official" report said that all died on inpact. Like I said previously if you see one moving arm (which if easily seen) then that is more than enough to say that survivors were in the wreckage. That one waving arm is enough to say something is afoot.

Now factor in the audio. You hear laughing and then gunshots.

The mere fact that laughter is heard means to me something bad is happening/about to happen. Who laughs at the scene of a plane crash? What is so funny? All of the people who say nothing to see here, what is the person laughing at?

This is the only other news article that mentions Mendierej:

Link to Article

It's in Slovenian, but I've translated it here:

Conspiracy theories about the fall of the Polish aircraft (photo, video) Warsaw - The Polish web portals have reported that Andrei was Mendierej, the author photo on the Polish plane crash, which killed Polish president Lech Kaczynski, was killed.

According to Polish media reported some of the Mandierej in Kiev was stabbed with a knife, and then to be transported to the hospital. Here the unknown perpetrators of the disconnection of the devices to sustain life artificially. Shortly thereafter, some news media denied the murder, saying that it is the "Internet gossip."

The news of the murder of cameraman has lit a number of conspiracy theories about the fall of the Polish aircraft. There were questions of what happened to the pilots, since the cockpits almost intact, their bodies and long residue was found.

The website YouTube is, however, after being removed first, appeared with a new clip of the Polish aircraft accident site. In the video, which is very poor resolution can also be seen in a white person who rises high into the air arm. This was further fueled the various theories.

One Polish MEP, said that the blame for the accident airplane Russia, but others believe that the plane crashed Chechen rebels. Polish aircraft accident will certainly have long employed people, the number of conspiracy theories over the years and will increase further.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by tyranny22]

reply to post by euleberlin


I look at the vid...and I see...nothing.
Or, it is something but close to impossible to say what. Just a blur...

And there is no gunshot heard at this point in the vid either so that doesn't add up.