BREAKING: Proof of survivors in Smolensk!

who knows, this is something that its impossible to know ... it really is

if anyone did something, they learned thought 911 ( it didnt provide any proof and a lot of holes in the history ... )

so, if this is a conspiracy, we probably wont find out anything besides speculation

I just cant believe people were dumb enough to do 911 the way it happened, a lot of holes, so, it may not be a conspiracy at all (in the 911 case), just because you need to think who did it is completely dumb

[edit on 28-4-2010 by Faiol]

so what is being insinuated is that the supposed survivors of the crash were murdered?? forgive me i havent kept up much with the whole story. i know there were gunshots heard during the filming. maybe this is a huge cover up of some sort? wish there were better shots of the "survivors"

Sheesh...

Is there any set in stone word of the camera man's health? (dead/alive)

Wish HE could emphasise on what HE saw at the scene if he is in fact alive and well....but I doubt we'll be lucky to get as much.

Also, has there been any official Russian response to the crash video? (shown video)


...I want to believe...



[edit on 28-4-2010 by L1Z4RD]

Many people seem to think that the apparent gunshots heard in the video could have been caused by ammunition going off in the fire from the wreckage. First of all, most ammo would be stored in metal magazines (clips) and so not directly exposed to the fire, lessening any chance of accidently going off due to the fire. Also, the sound of a round going off in a fire is very different from the sound of an actual gunshot, leaving a barrel. The gas compression escaping the small barrel, after the bullet, is what causes that famous loud sound. This is the premise for a silencer or sound suppressor. A silencer simply releases the compressed gasses in a slower, more controlled manner. If ammunition was going off due to fire, outside of the barrel of an actual gun, the gasses would not be escaping a small exit, such as a barrel and therefore not make that same famous sound.

To test this out at home, grab two empty corked wine bottles. Pop the cork on the first bottle and notice the sound. Then take the second bottle and simply break off the neck. Notice the difference in sound. The pop of a gun firing a round is the same premise of the pop of a corked leaving a bottle. However, the pressure leaving the barrel of a gun is much more intense than the pressure leaving a corked bottle so the pop of a gun is far louder than that of a bottle.

Also, you can't throw ammunition into a fire and expect the bullet or projectile to travel at the velocity that a normal bullet would travel, as there would be no gasses pushing the projectile in a particular trajectory, through a gun-barrel.

I'm a US Army paratrooper veteran and very familiar with fire-arms, as I not only worked with them through-out my army career but I also grew up around them. I actually took schooling in the army, to handle explosives and munitions and this topic was heavily covered. I have also actually experienced ammunition being expended due to fire. I can say with 85% certainty (possibly more) that those supposed gunshots were not ammunition going off due to fire exposure. Just my 2 cents.

--airspoon

Edit to add: After further analysis of the alleged gunshots, I'm 75% certain that they were in fact gunshots and 85% certain that they were NOT rounds going off due to fire exposure.

Edited for spelling and changed the percentage of accuracy from 75 to 85, after more listening to the alleged gunshots.

Edited for grammar.

[edit on 28-4-2010 by airspoon]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by airspoon]

[edit on 29-4-2010 by airspoon]

Don't forget the most crucial point of all:

The other people on the plane.

There is no telling what those on the plane knew, or perhaps were willing to expose, with all of the Wikileaks publicity you could expect more whistleblowers to follow suit. However this is an unfounded claim, I'm merely speculating on the basis that I think the best way to assassinate someone is to kill them next to someone more "important."

So if you think that this event was an assassination --^
If you dont --v

Was there any official investigation into how the plane failed/crashed/malfunctioned? I know last I heard Poland was pushing for one.

A little skeptical whether these are actually survivors, but it seems as the people walking the direction of the where the gunshots were fired would have arrived where the gunshot were filmed at around the same time. The video shows the "survivors" walking toward the right. The shots in this video were filmed at the right of the scene. Given that the shots were filmed after, it seems as if these people walking in that direction, would arrived there at the time of the shots.

Several people here seem be to very confused. No one is saying that the people walking around in the background are survivors. The accusation is that their Military, Merc's or Secret Police (take your pick). It's the movement withing the wreckage that are supposed to be the survivors. As for those who have said (and are still saying) wouldn't the people around the wreckage be freaking out or running or yelling at the executioners. To answer that question all one has to do is look at our own society and how people in it act when they see police brutality. Or better yet, use last years NYC Subway shooting as an example.

Dozens of people stood by and watched three police officers execute an unarmed, handcuffed man. No one ran, no one attacked the police, everyone just went about their business. You see it all the time in video of police beatings. People film, people watch, some might even work up the nerve to yell or throw something. Most just walk away and the ones who don't run like scared rabbits when the police come after them. In reality, when your around violence and excessive government control long enough, you become desensitized and learn to walk away when told. Others are so afraid they won't even speak up while their being smacked around like little children who made daddy mad. It's mind your own business taken to the extreme. We've only really been dealing with as a society since the sixties and even then, only seeing these sorts of tactics in large scale in more recent years. People in Russia have been dealing with it much longer then that.

Survivors? They look like citizens who are concerned and curious about the crash. Not survivors of the crash. But good try?

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
Survivors? They look like citizens who are concerned and curious about the crash. Not survivors of the crash. But good try?

Can you provide that with proof? if i were a citizen why would i be running?
and also in the video indeed it sounds like gunshots, fires on planes make different sounds.

The other thing is i would to mention if i were a concerned citizen i would be yelling for help no matter what languages you speak.


And also if there are Survivors, i bet they are safely hidden on a military base, a one not for the general public.

I heard maybe one, or two gunshots.

But they were definately shots fired from a firearm. No doubt about that.

The cameraman got there, so how can any viewer assume that no other people could have got to the site before them?

In this kind of accident I highly DOUBT that any person would be up and walking away from it. And if they did, where are they now? And why did the people arriving not mention this since?

There is certainly a possibility that this was planned, and that survivors were killed by those who brought down the plane. But as of yet I have not seen difinitive evidence to say that.

The only thing that we can go on is the commentary. If these men believe that people (survivors) are being shot, there has to be a very good reason for them thinking that. They wouldn't have known who was on that plane at the time, or why it had crashed. Why on Earth would they even contemplate that people were being shot?

If the translation does indeed mention shooting and people asking not to be shot (as is suggested) it needs thorough investigation to understand who is saying what and why.

On a personal and less analytical level, I did have a gut feeling that this was not an accident. Heads of state are carefully guarded, even in such economically troubled nations, and plane crashes do not happen every day. The probability of government officials (of any government) being killed in a plane crash has to be lower than ridiculously small.

If it was an assasination, I sincerely hope that this video eventually proves it.

Originally posted by Myendica
reply to post by Quickfix

 

why would us kill them if he was allowing us to put the missiles there? i think you have some info backwards. but video is crazy... im not sure wats up

I didn't know the president allowed the placement of the missile grid before the assassination.

I thought it was after the assassination, the grid was being set up.

What is it you mean?

Edited for grammer and spelling.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Quickfix]

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
Survivors? They look like citizens who are concerned and curious about the crash. Not survivors of the crash. But good try?

Can you provide that with proof? if i were a citizen why would i be running?
and also in the video indeed it sounds like gunshots, fires on planes make different sounds.

The other thing is i would to mention if i were a concerned citizen i would be yelling for help no matter what languages you speak.


And also if there are Survivors, i bet they are safely hidden on a military base, a one not for the general public.

they were running to look for survivors, it is a plane wreck after all. They didn't call for help because..well, it was in the middle of the woods. Everyone came out to see what happened. And I don't believe there any survivors.

reply to post by KyleBlackthorne


I agree with everything you just said, but why beat around the bush: The people with cameras just witnessed men with guns come and shoot what appeared to be (maybe) survivors. If you saw men with guns shoot the survivors of an airline crash, I'd get the hell out of there too were I armed with just a camera. My mind wouldn't think oh it's the police doing what they do (some might?) I would immediately run based on the fact that whoever it was had weapons, and was killing innocents.

reply to post by GorehoundLarry


I said do you know them? can you provide some evidence to back the claim.

IF those people were from the houses or military base they would be have been on the news telling there story on what had happened.

And also you should keep watching the video for the Survivors u didn't see it very well.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

reply to post by Quickfix


Poland's previous administration (the one killed in the crash) were going to allow the US to put missiles for the defense shield in their country. That is why Russia is the prime suspect in this tragedy.

I don't think that those running, were from the aircraft but rather they could have been sent there to "finish off" any survivors. However, the camera captured what appeared to be a survivor moving around in the wreckage. The scenario as I believe it, is that those people running to the scene or possibly others, were searching for any survivors to quickly finish off as to make sure the job was done thoroughly. Anyone moving or looking alive would get a quick bullet in the head.

If the plane was shot down or made to crash in another way, then you have to factor in the possibility of survivors so it would be completely plausible that the assassins would station a team not far from the projected crash site to do just that. For someone like the government with vast resources, it would only be expected.

Also, the cameraman's unfortunate accident was probably a warning to other possible witnesses from coming forward about what they saw and heard on that day. Just my 2 cents, again.
--airspoon

I don't know about anyone else but im sure i heard in engish get away from there get away from the or get out of here bang bang

You wouldn't think it was survivors mearly people who saw the crash trying to theive off the dead.

Maybe but if these people were survivors and were killed there is all hell to pay but i very much doubt it

Originally posted by euleberlin


Translation by Armando (in the youtube comments)

Uspokoj sie - calm down
Patrz mu w oczy = look in his eyes
[2 postacie widziane wczesniej] = two figures(persons) seen previously
Pojawia sie czerwona postac = there shows up the red-dressed person
"Idzie" albo "Gdzie" = "is coming" or "where"
Cos przyciaga uwage kamerzysty = something draws the attention of the camera-man
Postac podnosi reke i macha = the person lifts up his/her hand and waves to the camera man
On Uhodit = "he is running away!"
Dawaj Tuda Paskuda = come here you bustard/faggot/Obama
I ubijaj Tuda ~= [literal translation]: kill here ( or finish off [these])
Nie zabijajcie nas = DON'T KILL US
Zyje - is alive
Strielaj = shoot
Przeladowanie broni = reloading the gun
Strzal = a shot
Wszyscy cofnac sie ku*wa= everyone pull the fu*k back
Odejdz, idz juz = go away, go already
Gdzie uchodzisz Kola - where you going kola
Nie chuja sebja = (ja pier***) = # this
Obejrzyjcie jeszcze raz = watch it again in slow mo

checked with Google, most is right:
Calm down
See him in the eye
[2 forms seen earlier]
A red figure
"Goes" or "Where"
Something attracts the attention of cameraman
Character raises his arm and waves
He Uhodit =
Give Tuda bungling =
I tamp Tuda ~ =
Do not kill us =
Lives -
Strielaj =
Reload =
Shot =
All shift back toward the * wa =
Go, go already =
Where to pass off as Kola -
Do not # sebja = (ja pier ***) =
Look again

What exactly is the above supposed to mean?
Is it some sort of translation?
The lower of the two sections make the least senese to me, please explain it.

I think someone tried to make Russian into Polish.

Dawaj Tuda Paskuda = come here you bustard/faggot/Obama

Obama?

Graspin' for straws, just like all the other threads...

is it just me
or is everybody just forgetting
about the translation and what it says.
Somebody mentions Obama by name.
Why would Obama's name be used
within minutes of this crash???
the way I understand it:

Who ever was doing the shooting was calling
his target Obama or
maybe thought he was an Obama puppet

Or did i totally miss something????


[edit on 29-4-2010 by boondock-saint]