All Roads Lead to Rome

alas, my companion thread ALL ROADS LEAD TO THE MISSING PUZZLE PIECE, has been stuffed into skunkworks for being off topic (i had put it in the alien and ufo forum section). usually if a subject is off topic, they put it in the correct topic. by putting into skunkworks, instead of say, the grey area or ancient history, the mod has basically detemined it is equivalent to an article in the national enquirer. none of the artifacts are doctored photos, they are real artifacts from egypt and sumer, the texts quoted and words used, were from the original languages. i don't mess around.

so i think it's safe to say that for now, your theory that ALL ROADS LEAD TO ROME, will remain safely blind to the entire ET question and how it has played into the subject for thousands of years. go you.

Proto
I‘m new here and not sure yet how to work things so please overlook how this is presented

For a moment and hopefully this isn’t too off topic, I would like to show why myself and probably many others are still here and listening with an open mind.

‘It takes a lot of courage to show your dreams to someone else’
Erma Bombeck

I’m sure even with extensive time and research and such passion, one also has to overcome, be it personal, social, or whatever it may be, to speak out to others of what you know to be of such great importance to the others.

You show great courage in many ways, thank you for taking what you know to be real and evident and enlightening us who desire to keep an open mind and who know the present time and near future is/has been in our face and for so long.

Also thank you for expressing this…
“I have made it very hard for them to profit off of me, I am no longer oil dependent, payroll tax dependent, walmart dependent, etc., etc.,”
This is someone who isn't just speaking to hear himself speak, this is someone who lives what he speaks to others about.

And this…
“I very much respect other people's religious beliefs. Their spiritual beliefs, I try to answer honestly why I don't always share them, and sometimes people take that as a lack of respect, which I humbly regret.”
These words helped me to keep an open mind as to what you are sharing.

Your work and the way you present it is incredible, brilliant, thank you.

You possess courage and patience and obvious love, thanks for sharing your possessions.

Courage
–noun
1.
the quality of mind or spirit that enables a person to face difficulty, danger, pain, etc., without fear; bravery.
It says without fear, something I noticed you speak on. Fear debilitates a mind, keeps it closed.
Happy May Day.




[edit on 1-5-2010 by sweetliberty]

reply to post by sweetliberty


Thank you sweetliberty, and welcome to ATS! I hope you enjoy your time here and consider it to be as well spent as I do.

I am very fortunate, as I feel we all are, in my humble opinion to have such a wonderful platform to share ideas and learn, as ATS provides.

I think it behooves us all, to put ourselves out there in honest revealing ways, because it gives us all a chance when we do that, to be appreciated for who and what we really are.

To me that's the epitome of denying ignorance, by not treating others as so ignorant that you have to put on a mask, or a show to simply hopefully get them to like you.

Of course that's not always easy in this politically correct day and age, where people aren't always that comfortable revealing their true thoughts, and feelings.

I do feel though always, that if you can't say what you mean, you can't possibly mean what you say.

So I live and die by saying what I mean, because I do mean what I say.

I might not always be right, but I will always be me.

In a lot of ways, Rome counts on us all being actors to one extent or another, to play the games it tasks us to play to get by, to earn money, to have things, to create an image that we have been taught is an image to respect, and worthy of respect.

The truth is though a flashy car, a big home, a golden watch, and a big diamond ring, and sharp clothes doesn't make a person, what makes a person is on the inside.

That's the great thing about the Internet, it strips us all back down, to just some flashing type on a screen, and while some still strive to put on a show, it really is a great place to just relax and be who you really are.

It's great of you to read, share, and comment.

Thanks!



[edit on 2/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by HothSnake


I missed this post from awhile back.

I have been watching how certain rich and powerful groups have been tearing this country up for the last 35 years, since I was a young man in high school. There really isn't anything new on this thread for me. It is just nice to see some people grabbing some of the clues, while frustrating how they all go astray.

If you want to know where a huge part of our problems come from, look up JP Morgan.

www.smashtheman.com...

It really isn't some secret society passing down the baton, but ambitious, intelligent, ruthless people following the example of those who succeeded before them.

I've read every page of this thread so far. Knowing that Proto doesn't want to see this thread derailed into matters that can't be proven beyond this worldly realm,I have little more to say.

But I will say this,it is in the Bible that Daniel declared the antichrist would arise from the Roman Empire. One should also consider the writings of Helen Blavatsky and the influence of her writings on the U.N.

If you aren't seeking spiritual answers,you won't find them. If you don't know that Satan is the god of this world,then that is a matter of what you choose to believe. I won't "preach".

The more I am on this site,the more I am convinced of the fact that people seem to have their minds made up on matters of faith,and that faith in God and trusting in His word is not even in the Top Ten. That is the case of the world today.

So,while all roads "lead to Rome",in my opinion,that is synonymous with Lucifer,known as Satan,after he was cast down from heaven. It is just the tool he needed to establish his kingdom.

It's really no mystery at all,depending on how you look at it. There is a series of videos,known as "The Total Onslaught",by Walter Veith that I would recommend for anyone wanting a thorough education on the One World system and the influence of Rome,the U.N.,and much,much more.

I will leave it at that.

Thank you,Proto,for not putting me on your "ignore" list!

My prayers are with you all,that through His grace you will abound in wisdom and understanding,and endurance for what is to come. (Amen.)

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I think it is safe to say, that we see in Constantine already in his 40th year a person, whose primary religious affiliation was to Apollo.

Quite right, except for that famous (and questionable) deathbed conversion. If true, perhaps it was a case of 'covering all bets', but we'll never know.

What we also see, is as usual a Rome where rivals were vying for preeminence and predominance over all of Rome, and having to out maneuver rivals intent on seizing the greatest glory and power for themselves.

The rivalry was constant (pun intended). Routine murders of anyone remotely suspected of any dissention or aspersions to power were the norm. Family members, other ceasars/augusti, wealthy people are continually at risk throughout much of the early history of the empire. Proof of intent was not a requisite for killing anyone, not even those in the senate. Only the fact of their wealth was enough to prompt death and confiscation.

To 'don the purple' was to invite 1000 continuous plots for your demise as well and the extreme paranoia of line of ceasars led to the torture and death of thousands in pretty much all of the empire's history.

Did Constantine recognize in the Christian cult, a poor underclass or oppressed people, that much like Hebrews in Diaspora were stateless people, but spread throughout the state, as a separate people, but bound to one another, that he saw as a potential power base, for himself, within his rival’s portions of the realm, he could in essence use as a 5th column of support to undermine their rule, while using the loyalty of his legions, to meet these other princes on the field of battle, was he exploiting the Christians, in some fashion to cause chaos for his rivals, in essence behind the lines within their kingdoms, through his patronage and championing of them?

Excellent question.

Constantine was a pragmatic. Opportunities which presented themselves at key moments in his campaign to become the sole power in the empire were grasped with expediency. The union of Licinius and Constantine to release the Christians from their oppression was shortlived and the latter soon defeated the former on the field of battle. Think of it like Osama bin Laden and the US government... once a brave cohort in Afghanistan to defeat the Russians and then hated as the planner of 9/11.

As far as the Christians and Hebrews were concerned, their true strength lay in their constant willingness to become martyrs to monotheism and their uncompromising hatred of polytheism. This was the real war which lay like an undercurrent for literally a thousand years previously. First, it was the defeat of Jerusalem under Alexander the Great and then the later Roman invasion which replaced the Persians. The Jews (well, most anyways) never gave an inch toward the polytheistic gods of either the Greeks or the Romans, preferring death and a glorious 'hereafter' to saving their skins and losing their place in the promised Kingdom of God on earth.

Martyrdom, as seen in Masada, had a profound influence on the citizens of Rome and the soldiers within the legions.

Constantine saw the Christians gaining popularity within the empire even as they were persecuted by Diocletian. On top of that, the various sects within the Christian faith itself were also killing each other on an amazing scale. Each sect considered all others as heretical but all railed and fought the pantheon of polytheism. The Edict of Milan was supposed to bring peace between poly- and monotheism, but monotheism couldn't abide the thought... ever. THEY were right and all others were dead wrong and they were willing to die to prove it. Martyrdom was something longed for. There's strength in that, right or wrong.

I dare say, doing such would have been a shrewd political move, for a politician looking to gain a power base in every corner of the realm.

Constantine looked inward at the empire and mostly ignored the growing influence of the barbarian tribes north and west of the empire. In his determination to control everything within the Roman empire, he sowed the seeds for its destruction. In the end, it was this blinkered vision for control which proved to be the ultimate deathknell of the Roman Empire and the evisceration of its legions.

Which then leads to the question, where there machinations, to persecute the Christians so, that when a champion finally appeared, they would turn to him, and submit to him, and follow that direction their champion gave to them, in order to help hand him the empire, by working actively to undermine the power base and prestige of his rivals?

Not really. During the worst persecutions of Nero or Diocletian, there already was a well-established clergy complete with bishops (etc). This formed another level of government within the empire and that became the 'champion' you mentioned. It was the clergy who gave Constantine direction even though he was a polytheist himself. This is the most important fact of the time... the battle between God and the Gods, so to speak. Towards the end of Constantine's time, monotheism gained the upper hand over the polytheism, which had been the strength of the empire up until that moment in time. The notion of religious tolerance was established early on in the empires's Pax Romana. This gave credence to all religions and all were represented in Rome itself as well as in Constantinopal.

Was Constantine truly concerned over their suffering, or did he just see an opportunity for greater power and leverage in being the one who helped to ease their suffering?

Constantine, in his youth, was disgusted by the imprisonments of clergy and the waste of life which Diocletian propogated during the persecutions but he was also impressed by the bravery of the Christians as well as their growing popularity within the empire. If I was to put it as simply as possible, I'd say that he saw it as opportunity for power rather than anything else.

All any Christian had to do to survive Diocletian's persecution was to light some incense or provide some food at the altars of polytheistic sects. They did NOT have to renounce their faith in the One True god. This, for the most part, they happily refused to do, looking forward to a happier place in the promised ressurection. To be a martyr was 'da bomb' back in those days.

Amazing read, Proto Kudos to you sir!

I have some points I would like to add and see what you think!

1931 the UK discarded the gold standard followed by the U.S. in 1933! Maybe a coincidence, I don't know! The Officers of the the Bank of England have immunity in and outside the U.K. I believe this created hyper inflation, the rich get richer and the shackles of economic slavery gets tighter!

In 1823 we know the Rothschild's were entrusted to the bulk of the Vatican wealth! Here is where I get confused. Christianity is based on peace, hence they give the responsibility of governing their wealth to a group that finances governments! In time of war they would finance both sides! Also, the Rothschild's can be traced to Jewish heritage! Seems to me there would be a conflict of interest!

A key customer in the past for the Rothschild's was queen Victoria, why not use the Bank of England! I speculate, all these governments and monarchs use the Rothschild's so they can stay in power for which ever reason!

Frederic Morton said " the Rothchilds wealth consists of the Bankruptcy of Nations."

Basically I believe the Rothschilds set up the Federal Reserve took over the Bank of England or created it (not sure), and the vatican uses the Rothchilds economic terrorism. We become slaves to their vice!
Anyways, enjoyed your post PROTO, confirms my feelings even more about organized religion and the shadow government!

reply to post by On the Edge

So,while all roads "lead to Rome",in my opinion,that is synonymous with Lucifer,known as Satan,after he was cast down from heaven. It is just the tool he needed to establish his kingdom.

Let me put it to you this way my friend, once again I respect people’s ‘choice’ to be a person of ‘faith’ in any religion. I know that’s an important part of the human psyche born out of an inherent need to understand the unknowns of the universe, which are infinite, in the eyes and minds and hearts of many.

In large part that respect is born out of the respect I have for something called ‘freewill’, that natural and wonderful ability of the human mind and heart to choose.

I would no sooner take away your natural inclination to make a choice to worship and find faith in a religion, than I would my own to decide I want chili on my cheese burger.

Otherwise I would be a dictator, and a despot, and a tyrant.

Yet, based along your own seeming lines of thinking, in which it is purported man was created in ‘God’s’ own image, wouldn’t that tend to suggest that understanding ‘God’ is really then a matter of understanding yourself.

People in power; don’t end up in power by sheer accident. Typically they do so because they are more learned, more contemplative, and understand human nature, and predilections and how to appeal to, and manipulate them, better than most other people.

So if man really was made by ‘God’ in his own image, wouldn’t it stand to reason, that inside of each person is an ability to learn to understand the vast nature and scope of the universe and one’s own place in it, and themselves all by themselves, and then to evolve through freewill of choices towards something that is in essence similar.

Now if ‘God’ were appearing on a frequent basis and speaking for itself/himself/herself in the ways that we expect of anyone who truly is speaking for themselves, and doing that as a Master, or a King, or Queen, or a Teacher, or a Guide or a Counselor, or just a Friend, or even an Enemy, people who really are on a quest to understand the Universe and themselves might really in fact see some great value to the extent it would be wise to them to choose to make ‘God’ a Master, or a King, or a Queen, or a Teacher, or a Guide, or a Counselor, or just a Friend or even an Enemy.

But most people’s version of ‘God’ and what they choose to believe ‘God’ wants comes from books, written by men, who were in fact Despots, and Tyrants and Dictators, Emperors and Kings who not only wrote them but rewrote them time and time again to provide you with these ‘Stories’ and ‘Myths’ and ‘Legends’ and despite or even for all the love you have of those peculiar and suspect interpretations of ‘God’ and the ‘Universe’ put forth by Despots, Tyrants and Dictators and Emperors and Kings primarily to create a governing system that simply served them, wouldn’t it perhaps be wiser to consider that most people source of understanding of ‘God’ really didn’t come from ‘God’ by Despots, Tyrants and Dictators, and Emperors and Kings. To instead look to yourself and in yourself, and towards one another for these answers, instead of eternal submission, in slave like, and unquestioning fashion to those notions of ‘God’, does ‘God’ want mindless slaves, or is ‘God’ a friend.

I and many other people trying to define our place in the Universe and who we are, and the nature of our present world and state, aren’t finding those satisfactory answers in books written thousands of years ago by Despots, Dictators, Tyrants, and Emperors and Kings.

If we were, we would be at Bible Study Class, in Church or some Seminary, determined to find answers in riddles and psalms written by Despots, Dictators, Tyrants and Emperors and Kings and to make those answers fit that very narrow world view and definition of God and being Human as they put it forward to us.

We aren’t looking for answers there because in fact we are tired of and railing against, and in some case fighting against Despots, Dictators, Tyrants, and Emperors and Kings.

So yes, while some people have been known to go in front of a judge and say “The Devil made me do it” to provide a simple base explanation for some horrible crime, the Judge and Jury still looks beyond that simple notion and explanation for much more detailed motives as to what made the accused actually do what they did.

That’s what is going on here.

So yes other members have the ability to exercise their own freewill to petition myself, and other posters to the thread with their entreaties and notions, of very simple, base answers that fit into their own world view provided to them through some fear based mechanism or flight of imagination of fancy, but I too have the inherent freewill as do others, to in fact ignore them having once heard what they have to say, and seeing no satisfactory answer in it.

They can exercise that freewill to petition and extol and make entreaty after entreaty, but when it becomes uncivil, and when it becomes counter productive, and when it causes chaos, and simply tries to block the path towards the answers that most of us are still searching for in various ways, that is a good time to realize, someone who would be a Despot, or a Tyrant, or a Dictator, or a King or Emperor who sees freewill as a threat to their rule and ambitions and egos.

Part of what makes it so hard to ‘learn’ important things in life is the ‘noise’ of so many people, intent on making what is little but ‘noise’ as they run around in circles, lamenting things and events and people, with no inclination to ever get out of that maze, but just seeking attention for their ‘plights’ and ‘dramas’ inside of it.

People on ATS are typically searching for answers, to learn more and be more which is what denying ignorance is all about, and humanity will always be moving forward in reverse, in essence going backward, wanting its solutions to come from a past that is long gone. There is in fact no going back in life, to a previous lover, job, home, or age, and having those things be the same as they were when you first discovered them through your own evolution and forward movement.

The past as it pertains to this thread is meant to solely provide a real explanation and fixed point of where we really are today, and provide people with an understanding that what myth and legend and tyrants, despots, dictators and emperors and kings say worked so well before, didn’t really work well then either, and that we need to keep searching for a new and better way to evolve, and not simply an old and failed previous ‘solution’ to revolve.

That might be hard for some to understand caught in those circular traps and mazes and in love with the noise and drama and spectacle of them that allows them to define themselves and quantify themselves as an entity in the universe.

The good news is, it isn’t hard for some people to understand that we are suffering from that, as mentioned above and they are looking for the answers and ways and a solutions that lead to a thing not called regression, or revolution, but evolution.

The thread was never meant to be a religious discourse, but help people to see how Rome has used religion and banking, and law and brute force to keep conquering and governing the world.

If that religion hasn’t provided a solution in over 2,000 years and just took things from bad to worse?

Well, some would say that’s time to rethink its utilitarian value and wisdom and approach and practices.

Thanks my friend.



[edit on 2/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by SOONER


Hey Sooner... Some very good questions, and I'll let Proto answer them for you, but I will offer my musings on this one:

1931 the UK discarded the gold standard followed by the U.S. in 1933! Maybe a coincidence, I don't know! The Officers of the the Bank of England have immunity in and outside the U.K. I believe this created hyper inflation, the rich get richer and the shackles of economic slavery gets tighter!

Not only did most of the major world powers discard the gold standard within the same timeframe that you cited above, but they also went bankrupt.. The U.S. declared bankruptcy in 1933, which was one of the first things that FDR did when he took office, then he preceded to abrogate the gold standard (as you mentioned,) confiscated the gold of the American people with an Executive Order, and then gave it to the Federal Reserve Banks, from there it was probably shipped overseas. Ironically, before FDR did all of this, he gave a big speech where he blamed the banks for the Great Depression and even made it sound like he was going to do something to stop them. But that's a politician for you.

What was going on (and every major world power did essentially the same thing around the same time in the early 30's) was that these countries, which included the U.S. were doing what they had been contracted to do at the Geneva Conventions. They were all reorganizing for bankruptcy as they agreed to do under Geneva Conventions.

In 1928 the world powers started meetings with the international bankers in Geneva, Switzerland in order to plan for their bankruptcies. These conventions, known as The Geneva Conventions, ran for five years ending in 1932. The U.S. was declared bankrupt by FDR in 1933. The U.S., Great Britain, Italy, France, Spain, and Portugal all declared bankruptcy in the 1930’s, immediately following these conventions. Immediately following his election in 1933, FDR declared bankruptcy, a banking holiday, abrogated the gold standard, then issued an Executive Order demanding that the American people turn over all of their gold to the banksters.

Once the banksters had the gold of America, every American was now indebted to them (the government immediately borrowed credit from the international bankers with you and your property as the collateral.) With no way to lawfully discharge their debts (lawfully, one can only pay his debts with REAL money (gold or silver) and not a money substitute, such as a Federal Reserve IOU), the American citizen was forced into debt slavery (usury) to the corporate international bankers. This is what happened in 1933 with the confiscation of American gold and the declared bankruptcy of our Federal Government, which is why we have a national debt (interest owed to the bankers) to the tune of 8.1 trillion dollars. This is why America is the largest debtor nation in the world, and our society is completely based on debt and credit.

So yes.. You are correct... It's no coincidence.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by HothSnake]

reply to post by poet1b


JP Morgan was a tool for the Crown Bank of England. Everything he did, he did on the orders and with the consent of his masters back in England, Germany, and Switzerland. He was a made man, and he owed it all to the ones that made him.

reply to post by SOONER


Great post Sooner and a very important piece to the puzzle in how Rome runs the Shadow Government.

A lot of people will say, but England broke with the Catholic Church during King Henry the VIII’s time, despite those funny looking Roman numerals at the end of his name there, the people of England themselves imagined that they had broken away from the Roman system, even though they remained a part of the Holy Roman Empire right on up through 1805, when the Holy Roman Empire dissolved on paper.

So people then said to themselves, well we are definitely not part of Rome, we aren’t Catholics, and we aren’t a member state of the Holy Roman Empire, therefore Rome couldn’t possibly control us.

Rome was in fact simply evolving and incorporating as it always does in how it governs and controls to confuse the people who might rebel against it, that it is neither governing or in control, and changed it’s primary mode of Control to the International Banking system, whose point man is the Papal Baron Rothschild.

Rome simply started controling its client states like England and America and all the others through an International Banking Network that was funded with the Vatican’s immense wealth.

So as the Holy Roman Empire disintegrated on paper, the Roman Banking Empire rose to replace it.

They then started conspiring through Banking to reacquire or maintain the client states it had previously controlled or governed through Religion and Bullas and Concordances or Treaties and Contracts, to create new Contracts based on financial leverage and control of nations through banking.

The national debt here in America works out to 180,000 per person, ever man woman and child’s equal portion of the nation’s debt. So if you think you aren’t in debt because you personally carry no debt think again. Bankrupt nations are subject to the terms of the Bankruptcy as put forth by the International Bankruptcy Court that favors the creditor and not the debtor.

So Americans and others really need to think how free they are.

Want some more strong proof regarding Troy being Rome’s roots in every way?

What nation is teetering on financial collapse because of the machinations of the Bankers and the Roman International Banking Cartel right now? Greece, the nation that destroyed Troy.

You know what they say about pay back, and the way the Banking Enterprise is set up, is so that we can never pay them back and will always be subject to the leverage of our Creditors.
Here is why you can’t pay them back, why we can’t pay them back, and that’s because while your individual portion of the national debt is 180,000 dollars split evenly amongst every man, woman and child, the actual currency pool of hard cash, is only 500 per every man woman and child.

That’s right the actual physical currency in circulation in the United States if distributed evenly would work out to 500 per person, so try paying your 180,000 dollar debt off with that.

Welcome to the world of fractional reserve banking where there is no like amount of currency to pay off the debits!

The Roman Cross is in fact a ledger, a paper with a line drawn across the top, and a line drawn down the middle with Debits on one side, Credits on the other.

That’s what the Roman Banking System is, issuing pieces of paper, to augment letters of credit, to basically simply trigger permission for the issuance of checks, that are just transferred into more credits and debits, to release goods and services we create and perform.

We are economic free range slaves, one and all, around the globe since almost every nation on Earth including China and Russia are part of this system of Debits and Credits controlled by Rome that actually doesn’t produce enough hard cash, to ever allow itself to be paid back!

When you don’t get caught up in whether Obama has a Birth Certificate, or who paid for Sarah’s Clothes, or who Tiger is screwing this week, or who the Iranian President is offending or who the Israeli Prime Minister is offending, then you can start seeing these things for what they are, once you disconnect from the modern equivalent of Bread and Circuses and the Dog and Pony show.

Great post, thanks for sharing.



[edit on 2/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by HothSnake


Didn't bother to read the link I provided for you?

Everything JP Morgan did, he did for himself. How can you not get that?

Here is a clue for you.

The collapse of the world economy in 1929 was very, very bad for the super rich. They lost most of their money. What resulted from the Great Depression was the development of strong middle class. In 1979, the U.S. reached its most equal status in the history of our country.

Then people bought into the lies of Reagan, started believing in the free market, and once again destruction was wreaked up our economy, and then once again under GW.

As far as gold is concerned, it is just another commodity.

Wealth comes from the development of technology, and solid organization, which is what the Roman Republic had, and what the Catholic church destroyed.

reply to post by poet1b


I would like to make a comment on your notion that the "Great Depression was bad for the super rich".

This is something that is promoted in most college economics classes, but it is not based on anything of real value.

True wealth cannot be "lost" or "destroyed". True wealth being the ownership of actual commodities.

What happened during the Great Depression was more a result of the de-valuation of the dollar because the United States government was over-leveraged.
You see the US government was on a "quasi-gold standard" back in the day.

That means that all of the contracts that the US government had with other countries or any other contract holders had to be paid in gold, if said contract holders called in their paper money for gold.
When word of this got out to other countries, then THAT was what started the bank runs.

The falling stock market was a result of the bank runs, which were a result of the declining dollar.
The reason for the deflation in the dollar that supposedly caused the Great Depression was to get the value of the dollar on par with that of our Gold Reserves.

This is a link to the gold confiscation order that was issued in 1933 by Roosevelt.

This is a link that tells why the US President was able to make this unprecedented power grab.

All of these "signing orders" that "are made into law" are only permissible under a state of emergency, which we have been under since the reconstruction acts that forced the confederate states to ratify the 14th amendment, which made us all citizens to the incorporated foreign city-state know as the District of Columbia.

Now on to this notion of wealth.

Commodities can never be lost. So, when the middle class was "created" in the 40's and 50's and the "super rich" supposedly lost wealth, what was created and lost were actually credits and debits.

The same type of credit and debit system that was created by the Roman Empire.

The Papal Treasure, incidentally, is GOLD, Silver, Platinum, etc....

These are all hard commodities, and commodities represent true wealth.

True wealth can only be concentrated or dispersed.

It can NEVER be lost.

I hope that this answers your question.

[edit on 5/2/2010 by Josephus23]

The U.S. Constitution was based on the writings of Jonathan Locke in his "Two Treatises of Government", and he was among the inner circle of intellectuals along with Newton and Bacon in the golden period of the Age of Reason.

Locke actually fled England during the reign of the Catholic King James II, and returned to England with the wife of William of Orange, after the Glorious Revolution, when Protestants once again took over the throne of England.

The Age of Reason is when Europe turned away from the Catholic Church and a religious overview of the world, and turned instead to science. This was certainly not in the best interest of the Catholic Church and religion in general, and was and has been in fact very good for humanity, leading to greatly improved lifestyles, and far less violent societies.

The establishment of the U.S. constitution was a great accomplishment. In fact it was one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of mankind, and the success of the U.S, as a nation if proof of that. Those who claim different live in a fantasy world.

Our current problems stem from those who aim to undermine the federal government, and work to prevent the federal government from doing its job of working for the people in looking after the welfare of the people.

Instead, those against the federal government want us to worship the free market, which is just another foolish ideological concept aimed at shearing the sheople of their wealth.

What a surprise that the most religious backward areas of our country are the most ardent supporters of those who want to undermine our federal government, and turn power over to the oil companies and the banking elites, which is just what GW and his henchmen worked to accomplish.

Where did GW come from? Dick Cheney was CEO of what company before becoming VP?

reply to post by poet1b


This is a somewhat contradictory notion and it is a bit tangential from the OP, so I will try to bring this back to Rome.

The US Federal Government is a corporation itself. (look at the number 15 in the link)

The federal government was never intended to look after the welfare of the people.

See this link on Barron v. Baltimore.

The US Constitution was written with the expressed reason to limit the power of the Federal Government.

How does this tie into Rome?

Because when any entity incorporates, it becomes subject to one of two principles...

1) Private International Law.
2) Public International Law.

Two principles that, at their core foundation, are steeped in traditional Roman Law.

See this Latin phrase Inter Se.

Notice the language. Notice the concept.
Research who came up with all of the legal concepts that form the basis of ALL LAW.

The answer is Rome.

[edit on 5/2/2010 by Josephus23]

reply to post by Josephus23


Most of the wealth of the super rich in a fractional reserve monetary system, disappears when the economy deflates as it did in the Great Depression. Their wealth is based on perceived value as opposed to real value. Most money is nothing but numbers in a ledger, or these days in a computer.

You understanding of the Great Depression is completely backwards.

The dollar did not devalue, just the opposite, the dollar became far more valuable, as its purchasing power increased substantially. This is what happens in deflation. The money supply deflates, resulting in a situation where no one has any money to buy anything. Demand dries up, and prices drop to the floor. The dollar then has far more purchasing power.

Deflation is what the super rich fear more that anything.

Nobody can call in payment in gold, and you probably can't even write a contract requiring payment in gold. Do you understand what legal tender means? The courts will not recognize anyone refusing a payment in legal tender. Their claims will be nullified. I don't know where you heard this, but you have been sold a bill of goods.

Commodities can be lost, or more importantly, they can become worthless by being damaged or becoming obsolete.

What happened in the creation of the middle class is that the laws were established that prevented the fraudulent activities that the overly ambitious engage in to strip others of the fruits of their own labor, primarily by deception.

Commodities do not create wealth, labor and ideas create wealth.

You have been hornswallowed by all of these claims about contracts.

You need to stop listening to who ever it is feeding you all this nonsense.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by On the Edge

 

So,while all roads "lead to Rome",in my opinion,that is synonymous with Lucifer,known as Satan,after he was cast down from heaven. It is just the tool he needed to establish his kingdom.

Let me put it to you this way my friend, once again I respect people’s ‘choice’ to be a person of ‘faith’ in any religion. I know that’s an important part of the human psyche born out of an inherent need to understand the unknowns of the universe, which are infinite, in the eyes and minds and hearts of many.

In large part that respect is born out of the respect I have for something called ‘freewill’, that natural and wonderful ability of the human mind and heart to choose.

I would no sooner take away your natural inclination to make a choice to worship and find faith in a religion, than I would my own to decide I want chili on my cheese burger.

Otherwise I would be a dictator, and a despot, and a tyrant.

Yet, based along your own seeming lines of thinking, in which it is purported man was created in ‘God’s’ own image, wouldn’t that tend to suggest that understanding ‘God’ is really then a matter of understanding yourself.

People in power; don’t end up in power by sheer accident. Typically they do so because they are more learned, more contemplative, and understand human nature, and predilections and how to appeal to, and manipulate them, better than most other people.

So if man really was made by ‘God’ in his own image, wouldn’t it stand to reason, that inside of each person is an ability to learn to understand the vast nature and scope of the universe and one’s own place in it, and themselves all by themselves, and then to evolve through freewill of choices towards something that is in essence similar.

Now if ‘God’ were appearing on a frequent basis and speaking for itself/himself/herself in the ways that we expect of anyone who truly is speaking for themselves, and doing that as a Master, or a King, or Queen, or a Teacher, or a Guide or a Counselor, or just a Friend, or even an Enemy, people who really are on a quest to understand the Universe and themselves might really in fact see some great value to the extent it would be wise to them to choose to make ‘God’ a Master, or a King, or a Queen, or a Teacher, or a Guide, or a Counselor, or just a Friend or even an Enemy.

But most people’s version of ‘God’ and what they choose to believe ‘God’ wants comes from books, written by men, who were in fact Despots, and Tyrants and Dictators, Emperors and Kings who not only wrote them but rewrote them time and time again to provide you with these ‘Stories’ and ‘Myths’ and ‘Legends’ and despite or even for all the love you have of those peculiar and suspect interpretations of ‘God’ and the ‘Universe’ put forth by Despots, Tyrants and Dictators and Emperors and Kings primarily to create a governing system that simply served them, wouldn’t it perhaps be wiser to consider that most people source of understanding of ‘God’ really didn’t come from ‘God’ by Despots, Tyrants and Dictators, and Emperors and Kings. To instead look to yourself and in yourself, and towards one another for these answers, instead of eternal submission, in slave like, and unquestioning fashion to those notions of ‘God’, does ‘God’ want mindless slaves, or is ‘God’ a friend.

I and many other people trying to define our place in the Universe and who we are, and the nature of our present world and state, aren’t finding those satisfactory answers in books written thousands of years ago by Despots, Dictators, Tyrants, and Emperors and Kings.

If we were, we would be at Bible Study Class, in Church or some Seminary, determined to find answers in riddles and psalms written by Despots, Dictators, Tyrants and Emperors and Kings and to make those answers fit that very narrow world view and definition of God and being Human as they put it forward to us.

We aren’t looking for answers there because in fact we are tired of and railing against, and in some case fighting against Despots, Dictators, Tyrants, and Emperors and Kings.

So yes, while some people have been known to go in front of a judge and say “The Devil made me do it” to provide a simple base explanation for some horrible crime, the Judge and Jury still looks beyond that simple notion and explanation for much more detailed motives as to what made the accused actually do what they did.

That’s what is going on here.

So yes other members have the ability to exercise their own freewill to petition myself, and other posters to the thread with their entreaties and notions, of very simple, base answers that fit into their own world view provided to them through some fear based mechanism or flight of imagination of fancy, but I too have the inherent freewill as do others, to in fact ignore them having once heard what they have to say, and seeing no satisfactory answer in it.

They can exercise that freewill to petition and extol and make entreaty after entreaty, but when it becomes uncivil, and when it becomes counter productive, and when it causes chaos, and simply tries to block the path towards the answers that most of us are still searching for in various ways, that is a good time to realize, someone who would be a Despot, or a Tyrant, or a Dictator, or a King or Emperor who sees freewill as a threat to their rule and ambitions and egos.

Part of what makes it so hard to ‘learn’ important things in life is the ‘noise’ of so many people, intent on making what is little but ‘noise’ as they run around in circles, lamenting things and events and people, with no inclination to ever get out of that maze, but just seeking attention for their ‘plights’ and ‘dramas’ inside of it.

People on ATS are typically searching for answers, to learn more and be more which is what denying ignorance is all about, and humanity will always be moving forward in reverse, in essence going backward, wanting its solutions to come from a past that is long gone. There is in fact no going back in life, to a previous lover, job, home, or age, and having those things be the same as they were when you first discovered them through your own evolution and forward movement.

The past as it pertains to this thread is meant to solely provide a real explanation and fixed point of where we really are today, and provide people with an understanding that what myth and legend and tyrants, despots, dictators and emperors and kings say worked so well before, didn’t really work well then either, and that we need to keep searching for a new and better way to evolve, and not simply an old and failed previous ‘solution’ to revolve.

That might be hard for some to understand caught in those circular traps and mazes and in love with the noise and drama and spectacle of them that allows them to define themselves and quantify themselves as an entity in the universe.

The good news is, it isn’t hard for some people to understand that we are suffering from that, as mentioned above and they are looking for the answers and ways and a solutions that lead to a thing not called regression, or revolution, but evolution.

The thread was never meant to be a religious discourse, but help people to see how Rome has used religion and banking, and law and brute force to keep conquering and governing the world.

If that religion hasn’t provided a solution in over 2,000 years and just took things from bad to worse?

Well, some would say that’s time to rethink its utilitarian value and wisdom and approach and practices.

Thanks my friend.



[edit on 2/5/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Well,Proto,I would have to say,"Religion" isn't the answer! Religion has been corrupted just as much as any of the worldly systems that are in place. From Catholic doctrine that goes against everything the Bible teaches,to government "owned" churches preaching politically-correct doctrines to reel in those who want their ears tickled,that ignore the truth of God's word and it's warnings against those who don't live by faith,who continue to deny God's laws.

As I mentioned before,Bible-believing Christians are still the number one enemy of Rome. Not occultists,not any other faith,just those who love Jesus Christ and profess faith that goes against their teachings! Why is that? Most real Christians are those,like the Amish spoken of earlier,who turn the other cheek. They aren't off waging war "in the name of God". They don't strive for worldly prominence. They are really no threat at all!

However,as the Bible says,Satan was full of anger against God and has made it his goal to destroy and persecute those who love Him. (Apollo/Apollyon in my book also means "Destroyer",by the way.)

People have been led away from faith in God in search of finding their own "godhood",and answers outside of the gospel of Christ and their need for redemption. I know this goes against logic,as the world teaches. That is just where we are in life. So many choices and distractions,so many doubts,...so little faith.

If I were putting my hope in this world,I would be very afraid. As it stands,I am neither confused nor afraid. There will be pain,there will be sorrow,but I also believe that God's justice will prevail. According to the Bible,that involves complete destruction of the world as we know it.

I guess it boils down to what one's belief in God is. Mine is of an all-powerful Creator who can and does do all He says He will do. From creating the universe,right down to the resurrection of His Son,nothing is impossible for Him.

I suppose you think I am naive,or just old-fashioned in my beliefs. So be it.I'm used to not going along with popular thinking! Today,it takes a rebel to stand on faith in God's word,and I will continu

reply to post by poet1b


Here is a link that describes very accurately that the dollar was devalued during the Great Depression.

However, I would like to get this back on the subject of the OP.

This is extremely tangential to this thread and I do not wish to deviate any longer.

Also... Please stop with the personal attacks.

if you wish to make a statement then please provide a link.

The one link that you have provided was read by me and refuted by me, in reference to your point.

I do not want to put anyone else on ignore, but these personal attacks are beginning again.

I debate facts based on evidence, not words on the screen that are based on....

How do you say....

Nonsense.

[edit on 5/2/2010 by Josephus23]

(Keyboard froze up there for a minute!)

I guess I made my point! I have made my own threads trying to expose the anti-christ system and religions according to what I believe,and I respect the rights of others to believe how they see fit. I am not judging anyone. I can only do what my heart tells me.

And,as it is a beautiful day here on the coast,I am off to the beach to play frisbee and bask in what freedom we still have,and to delight in the wonders of God's creation!

I wish you well,Proto. It's been nice talking to you,and am curious to check out some of your threads I have missed,and will look forward to what you have to say in the future.

Hope you have a great day!

reply to post by Josephus23


Once again you have been hoodwinked. You claim that the federal government was not intended to look after the welfare of the people, but the U.S. constitution clearly states that that primary role of the federal government is to look after the welfare of the people.

Your proof is a court case where the authority of the State was upheld over the authority of the federal government. It has absolutely nothing to do with the federal governments role in looking after the welfare of the people.

In fact, the current status of incorporation is founded in state law. The first corporations were the Dutch Indies corporations, and they had nothing to do with the Roman Catholic church.

Laws existed long before Rome ever existed, and we certainly do not live by the twelve laws of Rome. This claim is ludicrous.

Here are the laws of Rome, do you really think we still live by these laws?

www.unrv.com...