All Roads Lead to Rome

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Italian Mafia is the Sicilian Mafia. Mafia became a way of life at least since the 1700's because of animosity between the over controlling Vatican and the Sicilians who would not welcome outside control. Omerta means "manhood" in a way. It has the same meaning as the known story with the little spartan boy and the little fox he had stolen and he preferred that the animal rip his belly apart than to be revealed he took and hid the little animal that he planed to keep as a pet. Sicily is an offshoot of ancient Spartan colonies. Vatican does not like the Mafia but it's not going over to war with them either, at least is not doing it anymore. In the 50's the ItalianAmerican Mafia agreed to make a commission with the Sicilian Mafia. Not to be confused with the American Mafia of the 30's which had their own first commission in the US.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by spacebot]

reply to post by undo

so there's one of three possibilities with the gilgamesh story:

First I'd have to get a few things straight. Was the Gilgamesh story recorded before the Bible? Is it a story that quite possibly could have been used in another story? Or were both the Bible and the Epic story both found to have been recorded at about the same time?

If the Epic story was recorded much earlier than the Bible than there is another possibility. That the Epic story was recording what occurred after the last ice age ended. The big melt. It is a possibility.

If the Epic story is to be taken as a factual event that occurred in the ancient past than this is where my thinking would lead me.

1. he was the king of sumer and not noah at all. 2. he was the king of sumer and that was one of his many titles 3. both the king and noah were saved for totally different reasons. the king was saved by enki and noah was saved by enlil.

I do not believe we can interchange the characters in these stories my friend. By implying that there is a connection between the two is way too out there for me. You see we cannot try to make the stories make sense for us by interchanging the people between the two.

This implies trickery of some sort anyway. Why would one tell us that it is the inerrant word and another tell us something different?

Edited to add that they both couldn't have been saved because the Bible tells us specifically that nothing survived except Noah and his family. So therein is the problem. You cannot use one to justify the other because if something other than what is in the Bible happened than there is a reason we have been taught to disregard everything else. So you see your post points at a bigger conspiracy than Proto's.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by jackflap]

reply to post by spacebot


The Police don't 'like' the Mafia either, but it doesn't stop many officers of the Law from taking kickbacks from them.

The Judicial System doesn't 'like' the Mafia either but it doesn't stop them from taking kickbacks from them.

The CIA doesn't 'like' the Mafia either, but it doesn't stop them from hiring them occassionally as contract killers.

Most Merchants don't 'like' the Mafia, but it doesn't stop them from paying protection money to them.

The Unions don't 'like' the Mafia but it doesn't stop them from putting Mafia members on their payrolls as 'ghost' employees.

Corporations and Contractors and Developers don't 'like' the Mafia either but it doesn't stop them from paying them off to get contracts and vital union workers, and services from vendors that the Mafia controls.

Looks can be deceiving on the surface, and putting on the official face that you don't 'like' someone that stands in stark contrast to your own well cultivated image, doesn't mean that ...strike up the band..."when we get behind closed doors...and the lights go down..."

I think you get the drift!



[edit on 27/4/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by jackflap


try reading the whole story. the bird is set free from the ark, to see if there's any plant life/dry land. enlil (who is the biblical jehovah (as is enki)) shows up after they get off the boat, and he's angry (which is the only reason i think it's about the same flood in sumer, told from the perspective of a common slave (noah) in the bible and from the mainstream perspective of the king's (gilgamesh) scribes (up was his grandfather i believe it says) in the epic of gilgamesh. it makes sense because the slaves kept it as an oral tradition until babylon. whereas the mainstream scribes were already writing it down by the time of akkad.

and here's the clincher: you don't realize any of this stuff unless you seriously study it, meaning that if rome faked it all, they sure didn't make it easy for people to figure it out!

[edit on 27-4-2010 by undo]

It has been estimated that prior to the Inquisition, at least forty per cent of the combined population of Calabria and Sicily was Jewish. In fact, in dozens of small towns and villages throughout Calabria and Sicily, interesting remnants of Jewish life remain to this day. Historians have discovered indications of a thriving Jewish presence in the "quartiere" in major cities and the "via giudecca" in smaller towns and communities.

With the advent of the Inquisition in Italy, when the long arm of Torquemada, reached into Sicily and Calabria, many of these Jewish families were forced to flee, convert (marranos) or practice in secret (crypto-Jews). Yet, despite persecution, many families retained a remnant of their Jewish past.

Today, as thousands of Italian Americans, as well as others of Italian ancestry or connection, from all around the world, embark upon genealogical research to learn about their heritage, knowledge of Italian-Jewish heritage can be essential in this process. An overwhelming number of Italians who have emigrated are from the South of Italy and among them an even greater number from Calabria and Sicily.

www.jewishroots.it...


Which raises the issue of the so-called 'Russian' mafia, which again is comprised almost entirely of jews

reply to post by jackflap

Edited to add that they both couldn't have been saved because the Bible tells us specifically that nothing survived except Noah and his family

AND this is precisely why you need to really study the info to separate what it really said, from what it says now in english.

in the original words, the word ALL does not appear. he didn't bring ALL the animals. ALL life was not wiped out. the word ALL only appears in the english translation. in addition, in genesis 6 (the nephilim chapter), it says there were nephilim hybrids in earth before and AFTER the flood. the nephilim were the preflood and post flood royals. so that means somebody had to have saved a king, somewhere. and i do believe the epic of gilgamesh indicates who that was (and it would also explain why enlil was angry, if enki saved a royal lineage from the area when enlil was not enamored with the royal hybrids).



[edit on 27-4-2010 by undo]

Well so much for being unbiased.
It's like you can buy whatever the Vatican says about the Mafia but you won't buy what Vatican says about Christ. Strange..
I said that Mafia didn't use to be the Mafia we know. They had to in order to survive and the Pope didn't make it any easier for them. I thought I was clear, I ques I wasn't. Vatican was always behaving like Sicily shouldn't exist for some reason. Hell Vatican did this for many many other people too. For instance they didn't help Romania getting out of the communist fold as they helped Poland. Poland is Catholic, Romania is not. Vatican is 90% politics and 10% faith. They kept doing things since the first schism of the Churches since 4th century BC. It's a story that goes way way back.
I believe some will think I may sound like an apologist for the Mafia, but honestly, I care only about historical accuracy and not everything is black and white.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by spacebot]

' In its entirety the Nag Hammadi library comprises 51 works, most of which are written in the Sahidic dialect of Coptic and which are apparently translated from the original Greek texts.

Their importance is that, as a collection of biblical texts with a specifically Gnostic character, they now form the bulk of our knowledge of Gnosticism. Indeed many of them can claim an authority which is on a par with that of the Synoptic Gospels themselves.

Unlike the latter, however, these were written not for a Roman congregation but an Eygptian audeince, and were therefore not subjected to the usual high level of Roman censorship and amendment

Further, there are those who have stated that these Gospels may well be the result of first-hand accounts and eyewitness versions of event relayed by Jews, perhaps even those who were personal acquaintances of Jesus himsel, who were fleeing the Holy Land and who could afford to be honest in their recounting of events in a way in which the Synoptic Gospels could not

In particular the relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene is reported quite differently, especially in the Gospel of Mary and also in the Gospel of Philip. And a passage in one of the codices, the 'Second Treatis of the Great Seth', echoes the theme first mentioned by Basilides, that of the substitution on the cross of Jesus for another '

Excerpt from 'The Arcadian Cipher'
Peter Blake and Paul S. Blezard
(c) 2000
ISBN: 0 283 07288 1


.



[edit on 27-4-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by spacebot


Not sure if you're referring to the quote within my post, but if so, it's linked to a jewish genealogy site and has no connection with the Vatican

Actually no, unless your comment was on page 16 which by now I totally forgot what it contains.
The issue is broadening very much and now i see Gnosticism is in the game too!
Those subjects are not all easy to deal with since it requires much study.

For the record, why the Gnostic scripts from Nag Hammadi library haven't made it in the canonical texts as part of the accepted Gospels.

because as it is rightly stated in the relevant wiki about Gnosticism:

Gnosticism (Greek: γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) refers to diverse, syncretistic religious movements in antiquity consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that the cosmos was created by an imperfect god, the demiurge with some of the supreme God's pneuma; this being is frequently identified with the Abrahamic God, (as opposed to the Gospel according to the Hebrews) and is contrasted with a superior entity, referred to by several terms including Pleroma and Godhead.[1] Depictions of the demiurge—the term originates with Plato's Timaeus[2]—vary from being as an embodiment of evil, to being merely imperfect and as benevolent as its inadequacy permits. Gnosticism was a dualistic religion, influenced by and influencing Hellenic philosophy, Judaism (see Notzrim), and Christianity;[3] however, by contrast, later strands of the movement, such as the Valentinians, held a monistic world-view.[4] This, along with the varying treatments of the demiurge, may be seen as indicative of the variety of positions held within the category.

The gnōsis referred to in the term is a form of mystic, revealed, esoteric knowledge through which the spiritual elements of humanity are reminded of their true origins within the superior Godhead, being thus permitted to escape materiality.[5] Consequently, within the sects of gnosticism only the pneumatics or psychics obtain gnōsis; the hylic or Somatics, though human, being incapable of perceiving the higher reality, are unlikely to attain the gnōsis deemed by gnostic movements as necessary for salvation.[6][7] Jesus of Nazareth is identified by some Gnostic sects as an embodiment of the supreme being who became incarnate to bring gnōsis to the earth.[8] In others (e.g. the Notzrim and Mandaeans) he is considered a mšiha kdaba or "false messiah" who perverted the teachings entrusted to him by John the Baptist.[9] Still other traditions identify Mani and Seth, third son of Adam and Eve, as salvific figures.[10]

Nag Hamadi texts:

The Nag Hammadi library [1] is a collection of early Christian Gnostic texts discovered near the Upper Egyptian town of Nag Hammadi in 1945. That year, twelve leather-bound papyrus codices buried in a sealed jar were found by a local peasant named Mohammed Ali Samman.[2][3] The writings in these codices comprised fifty-two mostly Gnostic treatises, but they also include three works belonging to the Corpus Hermeticum and a partial translation/alteration of Plato's Republic. In his "Introduction" to The Nag Hammadi Library in English, James Robinson suggests that these codices may have belonged to a nearby Pachomian monastery, and were buried after Bishop Athanasius condemned the uncritical use of non-canonical books in his Festal Letter of 367 AD.

The contents of the codices were written in Coptic language, though the works were probably all translations from Greek[4]. The best-known of these works is probably the Gospel of Thomas, of which the Nag Hammadi codices contain the only complete text. After the discovery it was recognized that fragments of these sayings attributed to Jesus appeared in manuscripts discovered at Oxyrhynchus in 1898, and matching quotations were recognized in other early Christian sources. Subsequently, a 1st or 2nd century date of composition circa 80 AD for the lost Greek originals of the Gospel of Thomas has been proposed, though this is disputed by many if not the majority of biblical matter researchers. The once buried manuscripts themselves date from the 3rd and 4th centuries.

The Nag Hammadi codices are housed in the Coptic Museum in Cairo, Egypt. To read about their significance to modern scholarship into early Christianity, see the Gnosticism article.

They did contain the most complete version of the Gospel of Thomas (that has been found until now) for once but Gospels used to exist probably in other copies of the same transcription. it seems Nag Hammadi is a copy influenced by Gnostics.
The synod that agreed upon legitimacy of the Gospels of the Apostles was not consisted by 1 men but from a plethora of different bishops and archbishops that each had studied different or most of the philosophical movements to date. It wasn't very hard for all this knowledge to be found anyway since everything happened in a relatively small geographical area in and around Minor Asia, central Greece, Palestine and Syria with parts of the Anatolia. I think that the state of Texas in the US is about the same size of all these territories combined.

Consequently, within the sects of gnosticism only the pneumatics or psychics obtain gnōsis; the hylic or Somatics, though human, being incapable of perceiving the higher reality, are unlikely to attain the gnōsis deemed by gnostic movements as necessary for salvation

The Christian Church before the Schisms was one and undivided and holding the same doctrine pretty much. After the Schism (3 consequtive ones) both Churches were divided in the Catholic western and the Orthodox Eastern. The reason was that Rome believed it was the holier one in a kind of sense that it should have the most gravity in making decisions about the Christian faith, the clergy and the pleroma of Church. (the divine clergy, saints, etc normal clergy and followers). Notice: head of the Church is Christ.
About Gnosticism and Christian faith: The Eastern Orthodox Church always retained Monasticism as the most revered level of practice and as an undivided part of the Christian religious practice followed by the Monastic clergy under oath. The practice has it that after the holy oath all male Monks accept Virgin Mary as the equivalent of their divine spiritual companion (the most sacred form of marriage) for the rest of their hermetic life. All great Biblical prophets were considered of being some kind of monastics anyway. So in this order at least Orthodox Eastern church (as should also catholic West if Rome had placed and equal weight in it) holds Monasticism in place of what Gnosticism would supposedly do for the Gnostics in terms of a method for gaining divine enlightenment nd further understanding the true meaning of Gospels, Gods creation in general and the true purpose of Christian faith.

I'm bailing out! This kind of subject is heavy for this time of day for me :p
and it started getting very very deep!



[edit on 27-4-2010 by spacebot]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by spacebot]

[edit on 27-4-2010 by spacebot]

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

my son put it to me this way:

the original sin was the moment we became judges of what is right and wrong, because, as you can tell, differences of opinion of what is right and what is wrong, are what causes war. and your example is just more of the same. another opinion of what is right and what is wrong, placing the responsibility on that sector of society who you claim is masked in their false religion created by a false group in an inherently evil organization that rules the world.

"There isn't a being in the Universe that doesn't know the difference between right and wrong" Kevin Spacey, KPAX - best line in the movie, maybe best line in any movie!

Right action is intuitive, comes from presence, awareness consciousness. Right action is never wrong. Only the frail ego assigns right and wrong value.

What is right for you, is right for you, regardless of my ego's opinion.

Of course, most people have little or no access to awareness most of the time, so may pretend something is right when they intuitively know it is wrong, but the incessant noise of the egoic mind drowns out the knowing.

However, we've all had moments, and when we're reminded of these moments, it's hard to keep lying to ourselves.

I experience this happening more and more now, to more and more people. I believe a 'quickening' is occurring. Masks are lowering across humanity right now. It's very exciting.

reply to post by RogerT


this whole "mask" thing sounds like a politically correct way of saying "losing their religion." am i correct? because there are alot of believers who aren't religious, they don't attend churches, don't partake in ritual other than praying and reading, and rarely sport regalia meant to set them apart as religious. why would i want you to view me as religious, when i want you to view me first as a human being (which is a feat in itself because of how stereotyped people are these days).

Awesome thread , S& F , . Ive always believed that Rome never fell !!
It all makes sense , when you look for and research the answers , well done bro !! What momentum these people have , and had , over thousands of years , blown away with the accuracy , Survive well and Prosper ..

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto,

Here it is extremely early on Tuesday morning and I have just finished reading. I had not had a sufficient block of time to read slowly and absorb and so I waited. I am glad I waited and I was not disappointed. I had my own suspicions on a number of the issues that you tied into this. You likely remember as we've discussed them as separate issues. You however were on to then and alluded to the historical evidence that they were not singularities. It was difficult for me to understand all that you proposed until just now seeing the time-line laid out beginning to end.

It would seem every modern treachery and conspiracy can in some way be tied to what you have written here. The Romans gave us original sin and why not? They understood sin like no others. Roman promoted Judeo-Christian principles have made this a much more dangerous world for Judeo-Christians. These same principals have created an almost impenetrable armor for the "Romans".

20And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?

21They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

22When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left him, and went their way.

- Matthew 22:20-22 (KJV)

Who but a Caesar could have written that? Scripting their own applause. Who but a Caesar needed to instill the "empirically" correct answer to every man's questioning of authority? Considering that the Caesars then as now consider themselves God, feigning care for mankind and earth, they have for more than two thousand years gotten us coming and going.

That's an inspiring piece of work you've produced. I will recommend it to my friends.

Thank you ProtoplasmicTraveler.

reply to post by Hemisphere


interesting that you would get that out of the text of yeshua.
hubby said he always viewed that as an indication of your inalienable rights. caesar can't demand from you what isn't his in the first place. it's clearly demarcating the line between man and god. caesar thought he was god. yeshua is saying, in very few words, that isn't so.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by undo]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Hmmm... I see.

Why the Vatican though? Why the Holy See? Would it not have been Caesar's wish to have Rome itself as the center of power? I know you could argue that the 'Vaticano' resides within Rome... but still, that part doesn't sit well with me. What is the purpose of redistributing and reorganizing the power structure and the new name? Would it not have been more imposing to have Rome as the center of the Roman Catholic faith?

Further.

By implying that those who are part of these secret societies are aware of these secrets and are tied to them, you have to involve names like George W. Bush Jr. I mean surely... surely this man was not 'in the know' in regards to the Ultimate goal of Caesar, Emperor, Divus Julius, Jesus Christ, etc. And if he was not 'in the know', why not, why not in such a supposedly powerful position?

I also have to ask and I'm sorry if its already been brought up because I haven't gone through every single post in this thread yet. But would the name John F. Kennedy and the events surrounding his death have any association with this grand conspiracy which you claim exists?

I think you can see what my main problem with all of this is. I know you said 'secrets/knowledge' are/is power, but it is totally inconceivable that it has been kept under wraps for so long. Is there any other chain of reasoning which can address this problem other than simply deducing that those in power must hold this secret if they want to retain their power?

By a wide margin the absolute best thread I have ever read on ATS.
Wow, I mean... just wow. S&F for sure. Long read, but well written, and captivating. I will have to re-read, and mull over it several times.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by RogerT

 

this whole "mask" thing sounds like a politically correct way of saying "losing their religion." am i correct? because there are alot of believers who aren't religious, they don't attend churches, don't partake in ritual other than praying and reading, and rarely sport regalia meant to set them apart as religious. why would i want you to view me as religious, when i want you to view me first as a human being (which is a feat in itself because of how stereotyped people are these days).

Certainly not my use of the word.

I was using PT's word in my own context/perception of it.

My understanding is we all have a concept or belief of who we are. My experience is this belief or concept is only a tiny piece of the puzzle at best, or just plain incorrect.

We have adopted roles, either by choice or because they have been assigned to us and we aren't aware enough to 'reject' the role or even see it for what it is.

PT talks about the 'story', in my own language I call it the 'game', but my sense is we refer to a similar thing.

Other writers talk about 'the veil', which is a nice description as it implies some level of transparency - ie. if we are aware we can see through it and the 'veil drops away' to reveal that which is 'more real'.

IME, people carry many masks, one of which could be termed their 'religion', but I wasn't referring to that exclusively.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I honestly would not say that there is a greater than human intelligence involved, so much as I would say, perhaps we suffer from only seeing ourselves as humans, and that our intelligence is intrinsically linked to what it means to be human and is defined by being human.

I think we all possess inherent universal knowledge, as parts of the universe that we are each a part of. Because we are presently in temporal human corporal form, we think of our intelligence as being human in origin, since most of our world view and experiences are defined through that human vantage point.

Yeah, 'greater than human' was the bit I struggled with most in my post - even re-writing it several times - so thanks for bringing more clarity.

I often find it difficult to converse across these distinctions - individual vs universal. Are we all alone or are we all one?

Personally, I'm going through a 'duality phase' right now. Yin Yang, Yes No, observer observed, masculine feminine etc.

I'm curious to know if the curve I'm currently on leads to trinity or unity at the next bus stop, or something completely different

reply to post by serbsta


could you also inquire of him the origin of the following:

The Baal Cycle
en.wikipedia.org...
for all the obvious reasons

The Mahabharata
www.sacred-texts.com...
because mt. meru is also known as mt. sumeru (mt. sumer) and it's just the right timeline for sumer, which had at least two very important "holy mountains", at eridu and nibru.

the closer we get to finally connecting all these dotted lines together, the more people such as proto think they should be covered back up as useless fairy tales created by an empire 3000+ years after the fact.

how can anybody be that in denial. all the artifacts, the texts, the thing is immense. it boggles the mind.