Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling

reply to post by harrytuttle

It's not racism, it's the law. If you can't prove you are an American Citizen at any point, then you will be detained. Don't like it? Tough. Their doing it in Arizona, and we are doing it here in Wisconsin.

The law? Really? What law? The Supreme Law of the Land? Consider the 4th Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Hmmmmm.

Consider the 5th Amendment:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

And of course, there is the matter of the Arizona State Constitution; Article II, Section 2

2. Political power; purpose of government Section 2. All political power is inherent in the people, and governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and are established to protect and maintain individual rights.

Article II, Section 4:

4. Due process of law Section 4. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

Article II, Section 7:

7. Oaths and affirmations Section 7. The mode of administering an oath, or affirmation, shall be such as shall be most consistent with and binding upon the conscience of the person to whom such oath, or affirmation, may be administered.

Section 8:

8. Right to privacy Section 8. No person shall be disturbed in his private affairs, or his home invaded, without authority of law.

Section 10:

10. Self-incrimination; double jeopardy Section 10. No person shall be compelled in any criminal case to give evidence against himself, or be twice put in jeopardy for the same offense.

Section 29:

29. Hereditary emoluments, privileges or powers; perpetuities or entailments Section 29. No hereditary emoluments, privileges, or powers shall be granted or conferred, and no law shall be enacted permitting any perpetuity or entailment in this state.

Section 33:

33. Reservation of rights Section 33. The enumeration in this Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny others retained by the people.

And finally, here is what that state constitution has to say about illegal immigration. Section 35:

35. Actions by illegal aliens prohibited A person who is present in this state in violation of federal immigration law related to improper entry by an alien shall not be awarded punitive damages in any action in any court in this state.

That, my friend, is the law. A badge, sidearms, squad car and tazer are not the law.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Minorities are not the only ones who get profiled.

Im as white as they come and I have been arrested or pulled over by white cops, black cops, asain cops, mexican cops, avatar cops, and I have been mistreated EQUALLY by ALL OF THEM.

Ive had my head slammed into the trunks of police cars, tackled, thrown to my knees, forced down by their billy clubs. Why? Because I am a white guy with a shaved head and tattoos.

No one finds this slightly suspicious?

Maybe it is just the crazed conspiracy theorist in me, but something seems a little fishy with this whole story. I mean, this is coming on the heels of two big stories from this state. Think about it... The immigration bill and the bill requiring a birth certificate for all presidential candidates... Not only is this story getting people riled up about the immigration issue, but it puts a different spin on the whole, "you must show your birth certificate" issue.

I'm not pointing a finger at any one person that is connected with the story. I'm just pointing out that it seems to me this was orchestrated in some way to prove a double point.

Well, I guess you can kiss your rights goodbye if you live in Arizona.

Seriously, if anyone lives in AZ and is reading this, it is your duty as an American Citizen to vote the criminals that passed this bill out of office. Please, before it spreads to the rest of the country.

Seriously, what were they thinking? How are they legally allowed to pass state legislation which clearly violates the fourth amendment of the constitution?

Why in the hell do some people actually support this?

Originally posted by glitch88
No one finds this slightly suspicious?

Maybe it is just the crazed conspiracy theorist in me, but something seems a little fishy with this whole story. I mean, this is coming on the heels of two big stories from this state. Think about it... The immigration bill and the bill requiring a birth certificate for all presidential candidates... Not only is this story getting people riled up about the immigration issue, but it puts a different spin on the whole, "you must show your birth certificate" issue.

I'm not pointing a finger at any one person that is connected with the story. I'm just pointing out that it seems to me this was orchestrated in some way to prove a double point.

Star for you. My first instinct as I read through this thread was that this whole scenario sounds made-up. Now I am not saying he wasn't arrested, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't somehow 'arranged' to shed negative light on this bill. Like others have said, it hasn't even been signed yet, so there is little reason for the police to enforce it. I am thinking there is something more to this story than we were allowed to know. Something that was omitted, or just plain ignored. Perhaps this person was a victim of identity theft and the police wanted to be sure it was him. Just a hunch.

Chrono

reply to post by ventian


That's fine...you can profile...I can profile...a marketing company can profile.

But no LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER should be profiling. They should be looking for people breaking laws...not trying to "profile" to try to guess who might break the law or might have alread broken the law.

That is the difference...and that is what is wrong with this situation.

This is what birthers want the United States to look like. Breathe it in folks, that's the smell of Fascism.

Do you think they will stop there? I don't think so.

Personally I have entered a major airport in Australia 3 times in the last eight weeks, each time I have been required to enter the departure lounge that contains cafes ect.
On two of the three occassions I have been requested to submit to a RANDOM? wand scan for explosives ect, this is after emptying my personal attatchments and placing them in the conveyor bucket.
On one occassion a person wearing a full lenght Burrka was allowed to enter the departure lounge without being subject to the wand probe.
Iam a white Anglo whose face and body was uncovered so tell me what logic from hell allowed this to happen?
They want illegals and extremists it legitimises their stripping away of civil rights.
They are not their targets , we are.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by ventian

 

That's fine...you can profile...I can profile...a marketing company can profile.

But no LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER should be profiling. They should be looking for people breaking laws...not trying to "profile" to try to guess who might break the law or might have alread broken the law.

That is the difference...and that is what is wrong with this situation.

I agree with that completely. As I stated we need to come down on the people who are hiring illegals. A task force to sweep around profiling is something that I am not against as long as they are hunting the rich enablers instead of the poor workers. As I said earlier white people are much easier to profile. I also support profiling at airports. Neo Nazis and muslims alike. I actually don't think officers should be hiding on the side of the road either but instead should be trying to deter crimes riding around. Good to see me and you found some common ground. Now if our damn politicians would pull their collective heads out their a**es and listen to us instead of profiling us as insane for being on ATS we could get some sh*t done.

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


err , i may be wrong - but since when have drivers licences and SS# cards been proof of citizenship ?

the issue is verey highly charged - and bias / distortion rife - so i have no realiostic way of knowing whether the links provided are accurate or propaganda :

illegal imigrats get divers licences

source 2

admittedly that states that it only works in certain states - and some have taken measures to counter it

illegal imingrants get voter registration cards

again other sites state that some states have closed this loophole

illegal imigrants fake social security cards

unless the SSN is being ACTIVLY used by its real owner - how can a roadside check verify it ? [ barring comical discreprancies in age etc ]

like i say - i cannot fact check the situtation - which is different in each state - and like azirsonas new law - constantly changing

but it appears that illegal immigrants have been able to get a range of ID paspers in the past - and unless they have to reapply under newer legislation - still have seeminly valid ID documents

Just as I was starting to feel less ashamed of myself (I was born white after all), an article like this pops up. Do we even know of what race/ethnicity/skin shade the Agent was who made the arrest? Would you still consider it racism if it were a Latino cop? I doubt it. It has to be the big bad White cop abusing his power and racially profiling the good, honest Black man.

Then when a member mentions a scenario where the roles are reversed it is no longer racism but procedure. How can racism ever end when the tension is continually re-enforced any time the opportunity arises?

[edit on 23/4/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Ok, I'll admit I didn't see this coming and I defended this bill. It sucks that racial profiling does go on, but what can we do? What do we do when the biggest criminals in a state belong to a specific ethnicity or skin color? How do we protect the legal citizens from these people? What's the best way to drive them out without actively kicking them out or jailing them? You scare them out and I think that's exactly what is happening right now. Look at the facts, in one year (365 days), the illegal alien population went down 18 percent in AZ!! The reason is because they're scared. And doesn't racial profiling happen in airports anyway? huh. I pray this doesn't go any further and allow the government of AZ to get further into legal citizens lives, however. But I ask again: How are we supposed to protect the legal citizens from these people without this happening?

Beware!

If some folks have their way we'll all be carrying around our friggin' long-form birth certificate as proof of identification and citizenship.

Short-form isn't good enough.

- Lee

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


A little background on me... I hold a Commercial License and I hauled loads all over the US-but mainly in the 11 Western States for more than ten years.
When you enter a scale and you flagged to come into the shack...you better have your CDL, Medical Card (long form too), Log Book, Bill of Laden and permit books. If you are missing something-usually you get a ticket- if you really screw up- they can detain you and fine you into the stone age. I suspect that there is more to this than the article says. Every time I have encountered the border agents- it is always sir this and that and they ask everyone if they are US citizens and they can look in your truck if they want. The only issues I have had is crossing back into the US from Canada-but that is another story.

Racial Profiling... no- I think that he must have said the wrong thing and that is the reason he got tossed.

reply to post by digifanatic

Ok, I'll admit I didn't see this coming and I defended this bill. It sucks that racial profiling does go on, but what can we do?

In handling clear problems such as this, we must first understand what we can't do. As a government we can not violate the rights of other people. It is, quite simply, illegal. I understand that there are immigrants here illegally, but that circumstance does not change the fact that they are people.

The primary thing that needs to be done is to stop them from entering illegally to begin with. If caught entering the borders of the U.S. illegally, then there is just cause in detaining these people and deporting them. Once they're here, the law, and I mean the Supreme Law of the Land, prohibits any derogation or abrogation of rights.

The next thing that can be done is to limit the amount of money given away by state and federal governments to all people. This would not in anyway be an abrogation or derogation of rights, as the people have no right to demand special privileges. Privileges can be granted by government, but look where that has brought us. Remove any welfare incentive, and less will be inclined to stay here illegally.

The next thing that can be done is to repeal the drug laws. How will that help, you wonder? There are violent thugs and criminals in Mexico profiting greatly from the U.S. federal and state legislation regarding drugs. The profits are the head of the dragon. Cut the head of dragon off, and I have no doubt that dragon will squirm and fight back as best it can, but in the end, the dragon will die. Once that dragon is dead, many Mexican nationals will have far less reason to leave their own country.

There is much more we can do legally to stem the tide of illegal immigration, but those are just a few proposals I offer in handling this problem. Think anybody will listen to me? Nahhhhhhhh!

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by Yummy Freelunch

 

Well then I retract my statement.
I didnt see that in the article.

I have several forms of I.D. I carry around with me
MyState ID.
SSC
Sheriffs Card
Health Card
Work ID card
Alcohol Awareness Card Card
All with picture I.D.s.
B.C at Home.

A Card Card eh? Does it help??

8]

WTF would anyone need all that for. Might aswell just get chipped.

Originally posted by zerbot565
quite funnie that the president dont have to prove anything about his background but the people have to , lol and lol again

Lmao, thats a good point.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by AzoriaCorp

 

However, I did not mean that in a racist way.

It was racist and you are showing your ignorance plainly.

I can't wait for the first hispanic cop to detain a white guy...then we will see you SCREAMING how unjust that is.

So it's a bad thing, right, to racially profile an American citizen who has dark skin because it's a form of active racism....

yet you cant wait for it to happen to a white guy.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
Just as I was starting to feel less ashamed of myself (I was born white after all)

I fink I jumped over the moon here..

8]

never mind, no delete option, carry on...



[edit on 23/4/2010 by badw0lf]

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


Seems to me that this type of innocent cross fire will lead the push for everyone to get chipped...