Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

No I know what a Knight of Columba is and I know they are not Knight templars Btw St Columba was a very important man because he passed on the esoteric teachings

I was trying to explain that if someone tells you they are a knights templar you should ask them which saint is their knighthood under.

I was asked to join because the grand prior was impressed with my knowledge of esoteric things, that is what it is really all about.

I was told about the process. First three of the existing knights have to swear you in. Then you go under the instruction of one of these for I think 4 or 5 years. During that time you are not a knight templar. After that period they will decide if you are fit to join or not. Once this happens than there are stages of progress like the masons.

These people do not advertise on the internet. I think the usual way is to work your way up the ranks of one of the connected orders

BTW the reason why there are 32-33 stages is because there are 32-33 nerves in your spinal column.

reply to post by LUXUS

Well, whatever body this is that asked you to join is not connected nor in the hierarchy of Freemasonry.

reply to post by LUXUS


if the order you refer to had anything at all to do with masonry, you would have to be a mason first and foremost. Otherwise, there would be no connection. And in that case, they do outrank masons. And priests, an Nuns, and bankers, and anyone else they claim superiority over. They may be of the linage of the original Templars. But without proof, they are no closer than any other group. (IMHO)

All the older secret society's were based on Knighthood including the Knights templars. It is not necessary to me a mason first though high ranking masons may be contacted and offered membership. If the masonry you belong to is a political, economic, business based boys club you wont be asked to join at any point no matter how high your rank.

Wow, props on the story...reading this really made me thing, being a freemason myself...only a 1st degree (gotta start somewhere ), once I become a master mason or higher, i'd love to go to Italy and see how it's REALLY done over there. Seems like the answers to alot of our conspiracies lay somewhere in Italy.

The story of LBJ, as I heard it. In Texas they voted again before each degree. The story I heard, had LBJ dropping out after his EA because he knew he would be black balled due to some political stuff during the time. I have no idea if there is any truth to this story. Just relaying what I was told by a brother who loves to share these types of stories.
reply to post by network dude




[edit on 16-5-2010 by 357steps]

reply to post by LUXUS

If you were asked to join the Masonic Knights Templar you MUST be a Master Mason first. There are other Templar organizations, but they are not connected to Freemasonry no matter what some priest says.

Originally posted by LUXUS
All the older secret society's were based on Knighthood including the Knights templars.

Knights Templar were not older than Freemasonry. Knights Templar were founded in 1118 A.D. The oldest Masonic document, the Regius Msss., describes a Masonic gathering in 930 A.D.

It is not necessary to me a mason first

Yes, it is. One must be a Royal Arch Mason in good standing in order to become a Knight Templar.

That would have been pretty interesting to go to. I've just started studying the Knights Templar/Masons...it's really interesting stuff

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


What the Crusaders did in Jerusalem was clearly not a Christian mission, but a means to take control of Jerusalem for political and socio-ecnomic reasons.

reply to post by dieseldave

It really is. I'm doing a ton of research on them right now and I enjoy it immensely. I have some theories about what they did, but I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row, even though most of it coincidental and nothing solid proof.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen

One could argue that.

I cant believe I missed this thread for so long.

It seems Vinny has had a pretty bad expirience after starting this thread, as soon afterwards he stopped visiting ats alltogether (with that nickname at least). If we consider the way the resident masons reacted, bullying him and trying to bash the credibility of his claims, the only logical conclusion (for me at least) seems to be that Vinny was telling the truth.

If he was left alone and politely asked not to reveal anything more than he already has, we non-masons would not have had this wonderful indication that Freemasonry (presumably european fm specificaly) has a lot of dark secrets it would rather not reveal publicly.

Suffice it to say, the sheer secrecy alone implies this, but here and there, more and more information seems to prop up to warn us of the seriousness of the whole thing.

Fellow Brothers,

OP sat in a Red Lodge. This is "French Freemasonry" and it has a presence here in the USA (and elsewhere) as A&PRM&M Masonry which is decidedly different than AF&AM. I was i, p and r'd in a red lodge. Many blue lodges feel that it is "clandestine" because it is under jurisdiction of the ISS and not individual state grand lodges. Most masons will sit with me in a lodge because I am honest about my affiliation. I have visited many blue lodges and have enjoyed all the fine men that I have met in the process. IMO, blue lodge is much better--no power struggles & such--just L, E, & B.L.

The lodge that the OP visited was a meeting of "philosophical masons" Order of Knights Templar which is different than the American/"York" Rite group of similar name. Why they would be speaking to elite US delegates, I have no clue.

Originally posted by SimultaneousFinal
Fellow Brothers,

OP sat in a Red Lodge. This is "French Freemasonry" and it has a presence here in the USA (and elsewhere) as A&PRM&M Masonry which is decidedly different than AF&AM. I was i, p and r'd in a red lodge. Many blue lodges feel that it is "clandestine" because it is under jurisdiction of the ISS and not individual state grand lodges. Most masons will sit with me in a lodge because I am honest about my affiliation. I have visited many blue lodges and have enjoyed all the fine men that I have met in the process. IMO, blue lodge is much better--no power struggles & such--just L, E, & B.L.

The lodge that the OP visited was a meeting of "philosophical masons" Order of Knights Templar which is different than the American/"York" Rite group of similar name. Why they would be speaking to elite US delegates, I have no clue.

No, I don't believe that the OP sat in either a Red Lodge or a Blue Lodge nor do I believe that you have sat in a Blue Lodge. If you had, you would know the motto of Mainstream Freemasonry isn't the same as Continental Freemasonry. Not only that, the Brethren of the Blue Lodge would not have sat in Lodge with you knowing that you were I, P, and R in a Jurisdiction they don't recognize as "Regular". Any one of my "Regular" Brothers here would attest to that.

If the OP was in fact a Freemason he would in fact be welcome in a so-called "Clandestine" Lodge but he would NOT be welcome to sit in a meeting open on any other degree than EA. Also the work would be translated by another Mason who holds that degree or higher.

to the new readers of this thread:
I personally spoke with Vinney about two months before he wrote this thread. He was interested in joining masonry and I pointed him in the appropriate direction. I had/have no problem with the fact that the timeline was correct for him to at least be and entered apprentice or a 1st degree mason. If he traveled to any other state or country and found a fellow Freemason and expressed his interest and his affiliation, he would be welcomed and befriended very quickly. No, he would not be able to sit in any lodge opened in any degree other than the 1st. Which is anything other than an initiation. So I believe his story for the most part, I think he was overwhelmed with conflicting information and somewhat confused (rightfully so) about the big picture. So please keep an open mind when reading this and if Vinney ever ventures back to read this, I hope he U2U's me.

reply to post by network dude


It seems to be an awfully short time to find a Lodge, arrange to meet TWO brothers willing to sign his petition after brief meeting, submit the petition, meet with an investigation committee, report findings of the investigation in Lodge and ballot, arrange the degree, inform the candidate and perform the degree. I guess that it's possible but I am skeptical.

reply to post by no1smootha


My point was that all of his story is possible. Maybe not exactly the way it was told, but he could in fact be an EA and if true, it would be a shame that he was treated the way he was. I think most of us here get jaded due to the high number of BS'ers. If I hadn't talked to him personally, I might have been waving the brown flag as well.

You just have to try to put yourself into the OP's position for a minute to understand my point. I would be completely turned off from masonry if I came in with the same experiences. This goes for quite a few other forums as well. I think overall there is too much negativity here sometimes. Hell, it's all fantasy to most, we shouldn't take it so damn seriously. (IMHO)

Maybe it's just me.

Originally posted by no1smootha
It seems to be an awfully short time to find a Lodge, arrange to meet TWO brothers willing to sign his petition after brief meeting, submit the petition, meet with an investigation committee, report findings of the investigation in Lodge and ballot, arrange the degree, inform the candidate and perform the degree. I guess that it's possible but I am skeptical.

I agree. The timeline his trip played in the process makes this nearly impossible. Also, he never opened or responded to the U2U sent by Emsed1 to help him in the process of joining in Illinois.

By Vinny's own addmission he was not a Mason just prior to the trip.

Originally posted by no1smootha

Originally posted by SimultaneousFinal
Fellow Brothers,

OP sat in a Red Lodge. This is "French Freemasonry" and it has a presence here in the USA (and elsewhere) as A&PRM&M Masonry which is decidedly different than AF&AM. I was i, p and r'd in a red lodge. Many blue lodges feel that it is "clandestine" because it is under jurisdiction of the ISS and not individual state grand lodges. Most masons will sit with me in a lodge because I am honest about my affiliation. I have visited many blue lodges and have enjoyed all the fine men that I have met in the process. IMO, blue lodge is much better--no power struggles & such--just L, E, & B.L.

The lodge that the OP visited was a meeting of "philosophical masons" Order of Knights Templar which is different than the American/"York" Rite group of similar name. Why they would be speaking to elite US delegates, I have no clue.

No, I don't believe that the OP sat in either a Red Lodge or a Blue Lodge nor do I believe that you have sat in a Blue Lodge. If you had, you would know the motto of Mainstream Freemasonry isn't the same as Continental Freemasonry. Not only that, the Brethren of the Blue Lodge would not have sat in Lodge with you knowing that you were I, P, and R in a Jurisdiction they don't recognize as "Regular". Any one of my "Regular" Brothers here would attest to that.

If the OP was in fact a Freemason he would in fact be welcome in a so-called "Clandestine" Lodge but he would NOT be welcome to sit in a meeting open on any other degree than EA. Also the work would be translated by another Mason who holds that degree or higher.

edit on 22-8-2011 by no1smootha because: (no reason given)

I'm not here to argue with anyone. I have sat in many a blue lodge after being inspected. I have never once lied about my affiliations. It is simple enough to find me out if I did because Lodge names & numbers are obviously different.

Let's not rekindle old animosities betwixt the groups here. I have no mercenary purposes.

Yes, I know that L, E, F is the blue lodge motto. I am accustomed to saying it the other way and I'm sure we can agree on the spirit, if not the letter.

I agree with you that we're not talking about an open Lodge meeting. Certainly an EA would not sit in an open Encampment of Knights Templar.

By the way, you (who I consider a brother) are the very first blue lodge Mason to give me grief and you even called me a liar. I have, indeed, sat in more blue lodges than red. I have never met "sectarian" Masons in the USA until today.

L,E,BL and/or F

One more thing, you guys.

There is little to no difference in opening/closing respective Lodges of red or blue Masons. There is little to no difference in signs, grips, etc.

Our jewels are a bit fancier and heavier (and thus more costly) and our WM wears a top hat. Not much for discrepencies but...

The people are the difference. And quite a difference.

Blue Lodges are for "normal" people who raise families and work jobs of all kinds. The brothers of Blue Lodges seem concerned, overall, with relief and fellowship.

Red Lodges (in the USA) are definitely not for "normal" people. From my experiences in USA Red Lodges, there are two types of people who are attracted to it:

1. very wealthy and power-hungry men and

2. extreme seekers of esoteric knowledge--better known as "weirdos".

I was I, P, and R'd in Tel Aviv, Israel and my Lodge was just "normal" people like myself (in other words, working people).

It is not so here in the USA. It is as if USA Red Lodges are imitating "mystery schools" but poorly. Too much fighting, power struggles, people buying charters, etc. Too much money and rage.

There is an (FORMER) American Red Lodge Mason by the name B. Schnoebelen who is a deceiver and should not be trusted. He, along with an Italian deceiver (Zegami) have brought much shame to A&PRM&M Masonry. Schnoebelen exemplifies the types of "weirdos" I mentioned earlier. He is a piece of work and a blemish.

Also, to the brother who earlier doubted my word, please remember that if there were any brothers in those Blue Lodges wherein I have sat who refused to sit with me, then I would not have been there.

Please excuse any spelling errors. Using Android touch screen and auto spell check is eating me alive.