Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

reply to post by VinnyboyXI


Welcome back Vinnyboy

I know there's a lot of thread to get through here, and no doubt you have your own stuff to do after your trip. I do hope though that you'll have time to clear up a couple points about your opening posts.

I'm going to just re-pose a few of the questions that have come up during the course of the thread which might be helpful in establishing and confirming some information. I'll try and stay away from anything that I think is asking you to disclose stuff that you have promised not to disclose. And personally, I'm less concerned with "proof" that what you say is true -- I don't see any need for you to post images of your boarding passes or whatever if you can just tell us what days you flew where.

I'm also going to include a couple things that I personally don't care about but that have come up and might help you satisfy some others' doubts about the story.

1) What was the nature of the meeting you attended at the lodge in Italy? Was it a ceremony or was it of a more social nature?

2) Was it connected to the World Congress of Initiatic Societies (also called the International Conference about the Mission of
the Initiatic Societies)? If there was a connection, what was the connection?

3) What Lodge was this event at?

4) There are a couple of publicly known connections (or claimed connections) to the original Knights Templar: first, there are the degrees of the York Rite Freemasons called "Knights Templar" and second, there are the groups that cosponsored the conference I've linked to above (The International Order of Gnostic Templars based in Sedona, Arizona and the Scottish Knight Templars based in Noss Head, Scotland). When you say that you were at a meeting of Knights Templar, did that refer to one of these groups?

5) How many people were in attendance at this meeting, and how many groups or lodges were represented?

Those questions can at least get us started in understanding this situation, in my opinion. Questions that have come up in the course of the thread that might quiet the doubters include:

1) Saurus posted two questions designed to tell whether you have been initiated into a Lodge in North America. Here is that post. He wants to know what you were asked to do immediately before you left the lodge during your initiation, and where you were seated at the festive board.

2) If you could just clarify your position in Freemasonry, that would be helpful to many of us I think. It doesn't in my opinion necessarily impact the believability of any information you have, but it will help clarify the circumstances.

3) If you could give the dates and cities of your travels it would help quiet those who are wondering how you got around Europe despite the volcano issues.

I'm looking forward to hearing from you again. I'm particularly interested in any additional information you can give us about what stories you learned were true about Freemasonry at the event you attended, about whether you heard the International Congress and the plans for a one-world spirituality discussed, and any additional information you might hear about the conference about 2012

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by harryhaller

We have already had someone confirm that vinny could not have gained access to the meeting he claims to without having been initiated first. That suggests strongly that the lodge he was at is NOT clandestine. I wonder if it was P2?

P2 *was* clandestine. It no longer functions as an organization. It in itself was originally chartered by the Grand Orient of Italy, which is also clandestine.

Please explain why several masons on this thread have made out that "Lucifer" is just ... misunderstood, not such a bad being, a Babylonian king and just generally a nice guy?

I think you've missed Rock's point. The Latin word "Lucifer" was inserted into the text of Isaiah by St. Jerome to describe Tigleth-pilaser, a Babylonian king. He was not a "nice guy", but it was a joke. Jerome used the word as a jab against his own theological opponent, St. Lucifer of Cagliari.

Outside of the Old Testament and modern Christian interpretation, the word "Lucifer" also traditionally was used by the Romans to refer to both the Greek god Apollo and to the planet Venus. Milton's epic poem "Paradise Lost" also popularized it as a name for the devil in Christianity. Therefore, context is everything. When someone uses the word "Lucifer", you seem to assume he is using it in a Miltonian context. There is no reason to make such an assumption.

Hmmmmm could it be that you can only believe in lucifer if you believe that he did/is/will OVERTHROW said God?

Again, you are using "Lucifer" in the Miltonian sense, and are just assuming that everyone else is as well. In Theosophy, "Lucifer" is used as a synonym for personal enlightenment, and as the principle of spiritual awakening. It has nothing to do with Christianity or the Christians' belief in a devil.

Originally posted by Rosha
reply to post by VinnyboyXI

 

IMO you are being used as a tool to futher the propoganda surrounding these groups...however;
Just saying...If you were a member, and these were Nights Templar and if these groups were in truth a force for Good and God in this world..then by writing what you just have you have exposed yourself as an unreliable person, an attention seeker, immature, unworthy of trust and disrespectful of the need for security sanctuary and privacy.

If what you are saying is true...then you have just given it all up for a 30 second high and any hope or possibility for future divulgences and inclusion within their ranks has gone. An attention high...was it really worth it?

The answer to this would depend on who your allegiance is to...humanity as a whole or a group of influential knights turned bankers.

Sometimes people tell you the flat out truth - knowing it is so unbelievable you will never repeat it and if you do people will call you crazy. He may have just been tested. Maybe not.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

P2 *was* clandestine. It no longer functions as an organization. It in itself was originally chartered by the Grand Orient of Italy, which is also clandestine.

This actually answers a question I asked several pages back when I saw that the World Congress of Initiatic Societies was hosted by the Grand Orient of Italy.

I think maybe I'll start a thread to ask some questions about the structure of "official" Freemasonry and "clandestine" Freemasonry just to clear up some of my own confusion without hijacking Vinnyboy's thread. I'll link it in here once I've posted and I'd really appreciate if some of the Masons around here would take a look. It would be especially great if any members of clandestine lodges could help me out too

edit to add:

I posted my questions thread here: Questions about official and clandestine Freemasonry

[edit on 4/26/2010 by americandingbat]

What are the connections between these two groups today?

I was at a York Archeological meeting where they were discussing Knights Templars presence in a nearby village (Temple) Copmanthorpe and an old fella turned up with all the regalia -he was a modern day Knights Templar (unfortunately this was a few years back) and my mobile phone had the worst camera going, so interested to know what connections they still have. He was quite an old bloke (I thought he may have been an original).

reply to post by nal War

If you haven't seen this site: York Rite

reply to post by disinformation

Actually, there is no possible way that he is a Master Mason, due to the minimum time line that he doesn't meet.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by nal War

 

If you haven't seen this site: York Rite

reply to post by disinformation

 

Actually, there is no possible way that he is a Master Mason, due to the minimum time line that he doesn't meet.

One day degrees? I seen this in Michigan where u got all three within a span of 6-8 hours.

reply to post by johnathanalexanderpike

Depending on the Constitution and By-Laws of the Grand Lodge but I have heard of making one in a day. Those are extremely rare. If that was the case I would think Vinny would have posted that.

Originally posted by KSigMason

Depending on the Constitution and By-Laws of the Grand Lodge but I have heard of making one in a day. Those are extremely rare. If that was the case I would think Vinny would have posted that.

Even if he was a Master Mason, he would not have been entitled to sit in a Consistory of the Scottish Rite or Commandery of Knights Templar. Not even as an interpreter.

reply to post by KSigMason


yeah it does, but the text itself frequently discusses satan as something akin to a prosecuting attorney, who accused the defendant before the heavenly tribunal. example was the book of job.

Satan was an Agent of God before he thought he could be Gods equal. He was a god just like the Watchers were gods. To Bad the Masonry serves the purpose reestablishing his son, Osiris,Apollos, Nimrod, Alexander the great, etc. back to his Seat of Power here in what Manly P Hall called the New Atlantis. The Blue Brothers only serve as the outer portico or a facade if you will to mask the true nature of the religion they support. Most have no Idea but are good honest men working hard to be good men. The whole of masonry under the 33rd serve as a pool of prospective intellegence that they can be drawn from to fill the 33rd and do the real work of the luciferian religion it really is. LOL I know I will be attacked on this but hey someone has to call a spade a spade. Most of you will be so indoctrinated you wont be able to leave your warm comfy place in the all accepting lodge. You serve the creation Not the Creator. Doing so you will be judged with the gods represented by your idols, the watchers and will suffer the same fate.

Originally posted by Barkster
someone has to call a spade a spade. Most of you will be so indoctrinated you wont be able to leave your warm comfy place in the all accepting lodge. You serve the creation Not the Creator. Doing so you will be judged with the gods represented by your idols, the watchers and will suffer the same fate.

But what if we were never taught to worship Satan and Lucifer, and Baal? What if we are just a bunch of low level masons who will never be shown the "outer portico" and spend our lives doing the bidding of the elite "High level masons" while they secretly plot world domination? Do we go to hell then under your plan?

reply to post by network dude


what I stated
Theres no excuse for ignorance when its obvious that your lodges are full of Idols. I don't want to argue over an idol with folks. In the Bible an Idol is anything that represents a watcher or nephilim god. The All seeing Eye is the Eye of Atum. If thats not an Idol I don't know what is and if it represents God as so many say why do so many say it belongs to the great Arcitect and not name him.
Because as Albert Pike said if in so many words about the idol baffemet being worshipped by the templars that its not the wood image they pay homage too its what it represents. Be not decieved for Pike himself said the blue brothers are basically lied too and not told the truth. Now I will tell you that not even 32 degrees really understand all the reality behind all of the FM symbols. They like to think they do. and I dont intend to argue with any 32's in here. because most havent even read the literature and truth of the great men of freemasonry.
I know I'm long winded srry. hell is only place where you go to serve satan for the thousand years he is in the pit than when he is realeased one last time on the masses he will be bound a thrown into the lake of fire where he will be destroyed and so will all that facilitated him. The I dea of eternal torment is false the bible says the judged will suffer under the otrment of fire and sulfer and the smoke that rises out of this firey lake will rise up forever. Not the torment. It will be the second and final death of the soul.
I mean comon, how can anyone that sees all the things references to gods and the mystery schools not look into what they are involved in?
btw this is not my plan but the God of ancients, YHVH

[edit on 28-4-2010 by Barkster]

[edit on 28-4-2010 by Barkster]

reply to post by network dude

Romans 1:20 (King James Version)

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

www.biblegateway.com...:20&version=KJV

You should actually read the bible you swore upon.

reply to post by Masonic Light

Very correct. At least with my York Rite bodies, only do Festivals a few times a year.

reply to post by Barkster

Mixing religions/mythologies now? Alexander the Great was Satan's son?

The 33rd degree only has authority in the Scottish Rite, it doesn't have authority over the Blue Lodge or other appendant bodies such as the York Rite. Again, Lucifer is not Satan, he was a disgraced Babylonian king. The only place that Lucifer is ever stated is in Morals & Dogma; its nowhere in the rituals.

Freemasonry doesn't tell what religion you worship or anything as such. Everyone worships according to their beliefs. The only body of Freemasonry that requires a member to be a specific belief is within the Commandery (York Rite).

reply to post by Barkster

What idols are within the Lodge? Actually, the All Seeing Eye is an emblem of the Deity; all religions have used the eye to represent their god. Often during the Renaissance, paintings had the All Seeing Eye in it within a triangle to represent the Christian Trinity.

You must realize, as history shows, that the Templars were falsely charged so the French King could get rid of the gigantic debt he was in. Benedict, the Pope before Clement V, suddenly died (after being poisoned by an agent of Phillip the "Fair") and a stooge of Phillip was put into office (Clement V).

Not surprisingly, most Inquisitors promised relief if the victim would just accept the accusations. The promise was often a lie and would usually end in death. Plus there were no Templar documents ever found that supported the accusations of Phillip. Plus no "confession" could be taken seriously as there were employed horrific interrogation methods to obtain them. Even the toughest man couldn't hold out for very long. When DeMolay was brought in front of the public he denounced the Inquisition and was subsequently burned at the stake, but neither the French king nor the Pope lived a year longer.

So how is it that the members of Freemasonry don't know and you do? Doesn't that seem a little arrogant to you? I feel sorry for anyone who supports Satan, I'm just glad Freemasonry promotes goodness and the worship of our own God; whatever our faith may be.

reply to post by KSigMason


Well you got the standard 32 degree line of argument but its wrong. There are adversaries in the bible that are called satan but that doesnt mean that they are the Satan. Lucifer I will not argue as you are correct in some of what you say but you lack knowledge. BTW Ill say it again as Ihave posted before in here in another thread. I was raised in a family of Masons however My father knew better.
I was taught things that I would not repeat here as would tarnish My grandfathers rep if anyone discovered my origins. They were secrets that could have gotten him killed. Every secret society has the 33 equivelent or at least most do that I know of however thre are many secret lodges and frats. I see the masonry as the enemy of mankind so as any good soldier I have studied extensively and sat on my GF's lap, My Uncles lap and was taught more than most Masons can hope to aquire because I have a heart like that of your great grand Mason ENOCH.
Look up Alexander the great and his mother and the legends of his concepton. How do you think he conquered the world so easily?
Finally Every religion in the world does NOT have the all seeing eye. You are in an organization that has apntheon of gods but they are all incarnations of Satan, His son and the watchers and thier children. Truly the triangle you speak of is the triangle of Enoch.
You know as a good freemason you should study fervently all routes to enlightenment and one is christianity, with that said I would recommend the devine council.com and a new book out by tom horn called Appollyion rising 2012. I have studied for all my life every ave of enlightenment and the only true Creator/God is the God of Abraham Isacc and jacob, YHVH. I could go on forever but alas I know I'm wasting my time.
Some Masons I can provoke to truly quest and consider the god of ancients but most are too indoctrinated to budge.

[edit on 28-4-2010 by Barkster]

reply to post by Barkster


Based on your thought process then, If you have a crucifix in your house, your going to hell. If you have a picture of Jesus Christ in your house, guess what, yea same thing. The only thing remotely resembling an Idol in the lodge is the bible. An idol is something that is worshiped. The holy book is on the altar at the center of the lodge. Symbols are there to remind us of things. We don't worship the depiction of the sun, or the moon, and since the eastern star shares our lodge, we don't worship their star either. If you have the hidden knowledge of masonry tell it all right here, or don't ever bring it up again. there is nothing more irritating than a poster coming here and claiming to have secret knowledge and then saying he/she can't tell anyone.

edit to add: Nobody will be killed for revealing masonic secrets. You read too much Dan Brown.

[edit on 29-4-2010 by network dude]

Originally posted by 911stinks
reply to post by network dude

 

Romans 1:20 (King James Version)

20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

www.biblegateway.com...:20&version=KJV

You should actually read the bible you swore upon.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:1-3 (KJV)
From your link

or my personal favorite:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16 (NIV)
From your link as well

A true Christian is one who loves everyone and leaves the "who gets in to heaven" stuff up to God. that's his department.

network dude you also are taking words out of context. I am too forgive and love my brothers and sisters but those aligned against me are my enemies and while I should love them I am not to run in arms open and be taking advantage of.
The Cross is a symbol so ancient no one knows exactly how old. It stands for the devision of the zodiac serpent and points to times of destruction. Yeshua had to die on the cross because his sacrifice covers the sin of all they came before in these times of destruction and after. His sacrifice covers the whole plan originally laid out and is ultimate redemtion. In that the Christ turned an ancient calender symbol and used it as a symbol of redemtion. and again ignorance and grasping at any straw, Idols abohorant to the True God of this Creation are the foriegn idols. Idols like baffemet, baal, the ox, the owl symbol of Isis/lilith, that is featured at the bohemian grove. etc etc etc.
As too people not being killed by the brotherhood you are so sweetly naive. please dont take that as an insult. But I understand because all masons when taking part in the initiate ceremony and dont attack me if I dont always use specific terms of rites I am not a practicing Mason so # doesnt always pop in my head with out a refresh of the minutia, that is ancient and a part of it goes all the way back to the Bacchia where they used scarfs/pieces of cloth, as the bible translate but research shows they used as well, bracelets to bind a soul to to do its will and lose its power to believe anything accet what the Bacchia wants.
You Are Blindly Bound to the Alter from the beginning, Spiritually, in your walk as well.
So Now , if you want to have some fun with me, lets have a discussion on some topics of Masonry. Who is the original Master Mason, the beginner of masonry, Your great architect and why? lets see the bluees step up show thier knowlege and wisdom. I will have other questions as well after. I promise to be nice if you will and we can maybe learn from each other. In fact maybe a new thread would be fun. An open discussion between bat# crazy radical Christians and bat# crazy Masons, what do you say?

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Barkster]

Originally posted by Barkster

So Now , if you want to have some fun with me, lets have a discussion on some topics of Masonry. Who is the original Master Mason, the beginner of masonry, Your great architect and why? lets see the bluees step up show thier knowlege and wisdom. I will have other questions as well after. I promise to be nice if you will and we can maybe learn from each other. In fact maybe a new thread would be fun. An open discussion between batsh*t crazy radical Christians and batsh*t crazy Masons, what do you say?

[edit on 29-4-2010 by Barkster]

you start it, and I'll show up with bells on. I promise to be relatively nice.

You are going to tell us all about that secret knowledge we are all missing right?