Freemason Knights Templar meeting here in Italy 2 days ago, changed my life...

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
reply to post by Dock9

 

You infered that rules regarding addmission may have been modified or broken for Vinny. They obviously were not as he, by ahis own post, stated that he was only an 'initiate'. A one day class attendee would have received all three degrees in one sitting.

Yes, Vinny was very forthcoming, wasn't he ? Frank. Up-beat. Enthusiastic. The very opposite of 'anal retentive', wouldn't you say ?

Now try to look at it from a different perspective than the one you appear to be fixated upon

You continue to state that Vinny could not have been accepted as openly as he described. For in your world-view, an 'initiate' is a nobody

But, for whatever reason, it appears Vinny was accepted. And he was invited to attend

So it appears those who matter within Freemasonry do not place as great a store on Masonic hierarchy as do you. That's all. Happens all the time, all over the world. Doors are opened, invitations and more are extended

It happens. It happened. Shrug

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Fitzgibbon

 

It sounds from what you've written as if you're taking this Masons thing way too seriously

I mean, let's be honest here --- membership in Freemasonry is easier than winning a stray kitten

Maybe you were under the impression that Freemasons are an exclusive fraternity ?

Not in the slightest. But I do take a bit of umbrage when someone who hasn't topped even that low threshold makes wild claims about a group I'm associated with. The problem is Deny Ignorance demands challenging ignorance. Let it stand unopposed and it becomes a progressively larger millstone later on when someone cites that lack of opposition as tacit agreement.

Originally posted by Dock9
Vinny will either go straight to the top. Or out the door. Because he's different, you see. He's not a boring plodder like the other 99.9%. He's an independent thinker. So it's obvious that he'd be unpopular with the rank and file who're prepared to gossip and backstab like a bunch of schoolgirls and who take their Masonic Oaths to heart and actually believe they're part of something SO important that they fight to declare how they'll sell out their first born son, rather than 'betray a brother'

Vinny's yet to demonstrate that he's anything at all insomuch as his responses have been completely at odds with actual Masonry. This isn't about not being a plodder; he hasn't even demonstrated that he's even been in the door.

Saurus served-up what should be a gimme pages and pages back. Even a plodder would have an easy time of sending it back over the net.

Deathly silence on that front.

Originally posted by Dock9
And it's particularly hilarious that Vinny didn't betray anything that couldn't be found online ... unbeknown to all the experienced Degreed Masons who try to impress each other with their superior grasp of Masonic protocol

Actually Vinny has yet to demonstrate anything at all. That what information was found could be found online only weakens the case of those who argue for him.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Cuz I know for sure the alternate universe I was in yesterday, Templars were legends not legit real things admitted to.

But now I am in this weird world where its totally open knowledge. I kinda like this alternate world better than the previous one.

Anyone and their brother can start a clubhouse and call themselves Knights Templar. And they have. There are templar degrees in both the York Rite of Freemasonry, and the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. There are bodies calling themselves Templars that have absolutely nothing to do with Freemasonry as well.

The trick is, there's not incontrovertible proof that ANY of these groups in existence today, Masonic or not, has a direct, unbroken lineage from the historical Knights Templar of the crusades. A lot of people have tried to claim such a legacy, but the historians who've tried had always come up short.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
One thing that is weird to me, is that I have heard people claim the Templars don't exist and haven't for over half a millenia.

Templar now =/= Templar then.

Pretty straightforward concept.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon


But the link has shown it to be an irregular group aka not-Masonic. This distinction is usually lost on non-Masons because quite honestly who'd call themselves Masons who weren't Masons?

The link said they were getting Freemasons and other societies together for a meeting to discuss a "One World Religion".

You know, ALL the secret societies came *supposedly*.

That means Masons + Others.

This groups may seem irregular to you, because you (Like me) know little to nothing about them.

But they could be totally 100% legit.

There is many evidences pointing towards the legitimacy of this group.

And before this thread is over, we will have concrete proof that this really happened.

And that this groups is more important than you lead on.

OR it will be proven a hoax. (I am starting to really doubt that at this point).

If the OP is right and there is actually famous people we would all recognize there, than it is for sure more important than your lodge or whatever group.

Thats Concrete.

Tons of celebrities do not show up at nobody- nothing loser groups.

If the important people show up, that group suddenly becomes meaningful, powerful, influential, and important.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by muzzleflash
One thing that is weird to me, is that I have heard people claim the Templars don't exist and haven't for over half a millenia.

Templar now =/= Templar then.

Pretty straightforward concept.

Yeah it does.

Last I checked word = word.

You cannot say word =/= word.

That makes no sense.

So if i Look "Templar" up in the dictionary it will say "A Templar but not a real Templar". What the hell does that mean?

Of course the Templars of 500years ago were not the same guys today. They died a long time ago. The guys today were born in this last century.

So yeah technically they are different people.

The organization is the same in it's symbolism and secrecy though. They fly the same flag, wear the same badges and banners, and wear the same cross.

It is for all intents and purposes, very similar.

Granted there may be differences but it is 100% obvious they are directly derived from the original order of Knights Templars.

They didn't derive it from the Knights of Santiago now did they? Or was it the Teutonic Knights.

Anyways. Point is, by you saying "they dont equate" is simply not showing the entire story. Some of it does not equate, but yet much of it does equate.

It's 50-50. Not lopsided on one side.

reply to post by JoshNorton



And THIS appears to be the issue with the Masons here, doesn't it ?

Those same Masons who can only envisage life as one dogged step at a time. The linear thinkers

It's outrage I'm hearing

Anger

Jealousy

Posing and posturing as 'we know the rules'

When it's clear that the Masons here know next to nothing. They didn't know about the Masonic-Templar shindig in Italy. They didn't know it was possible for a 'mere initiate' to gain entry so casually. It shocks them and scares them and they are resentful. They believed all Masons have to goose-step down the same rigid path to nowhere. No deviations

So when Vinny breezed in to say he'd been there, it shook all those preconceived beliefs to their foundations

If there'd been more truth in this thread, what we would have heard is ' It Shoulda Been ME ! (most are familiar with the song)

So, in a face-saving exercise, and rather than aknowledge to themselves that Vinny had leap-frogged over everyone's heads without even trying, the Masonic fraternity vented their fury by accusing Vinny of being a fabricator and imposter

And what happened ? .... that's right. Turned out Vinny was neither. And just as annoyingly from the Masonic foot-soldier's point of view ... Vinny was in Italy ! Having a ball ! Rubbing shoulders with the likes of whom most Mason's would sell out TWO of their sons to get within 100 miles of

So then the accusations focused on 'ash and planes'. And again, Vinny was accused of being a liar ... falsely accused again, as it transpired

You guys are just devils for punishment, obviously.

We've tried to jolly you up with humour. But it seems a requirement of Freemasonry (at least in those lower levels) is a humour bypass

Guess there's nothing left, other than to keep working until you guys get over your anger and wounded pride and start laughing at yourselves, in a healthy way

[edit on 22-4-2010 by Dock9]

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

But the link has shown it to be an irregular group aka not-Masonic. This distinction is usually lost on non-Masons because quite honestly who'd call themselves Masons who weren't Masons?

The link said they were getting Freemasons and other societies together for a meeting to discuss a "One World Religion".

You know, ALL the secret societies came *supposedly*.

Like I said, "Foucault's Pendulum". Were it written today, I swear Eco'd include some Internet chat room thread just like this one. The plot similarity's scary.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
And before this thread is over, we will have concrete proof that this really happened.

I'm not debating that an event was held; only that the attendees may not be (and indeed probably are not) the grandees and as grandiose as is being made out.

congrats, but you will probably will die, since you came to the internet and made clear who you are ... so if I were you, at least tell the people what have you learn, or run for your life

if you are really true about it, they wont let you live, you are a liability just by the fact you come to a board and talk about it ....

if you really did that, you are pretty dumb to specify that much

I hope its a hoax for you sake ^^

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So if i Look "Templar" up in the dictionary it will say "A Templar but not a real Templar". What the hell does that mean?

Of course the Templars of 500years ago were not the same guys today. They died a long time ago. The guys today were born in this last century.

So yeah technically they are different people.

The organization is the same in it's symbolism and secrecy though. They fly the same flag, wear the same badges and banners, and wear the same cross.

It is for all intents and purposes, very similar.

Granted there may be differences but it is 100% obvious they are directly derived from the original order of Knights Templars.

So if I get a haircut, start wearing a suit, strap on a guitar and start calling my band "The Beatles", then it's 100% obvious that I'm directly derived from the original Beatles? And not just a wannabe?

reply to post by muzzleflash


Beautiful POST

You know, I'm beginning to strongly suspect that the ATS Masons only learned about the Freemason-Templar connection in the last few hours, right here, in this thread

despite their claims of everyone knows that

I supect that what we're seeing here is a Freemasonic crisis unfolding before our eyes !

Could this be the case ? Seems so. It's looking like a Freemasonic Loss of Confidence !

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Cuz I know for sure the alternate universe I was in yesterday, Templars were legends not legit real things admitted to.

But now I am in this weird world where its totally open knowledge. I kinda like this alternate world better than the previous one.

Anyone and their brother can start a clubhouse and call themselves Knights Templar. And they have. There are templar degrees in both the York Rite of Freemasonry, and the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. There are bodies calling themselves Templars that have absolutely nothing to do with Freemasonry as well.

The trick is, there's not incontrovertible proof that ANY of these groups in existence today, Masonic or not, has a direct, unbroken lineage from the historical Knights Templar of the crusades. A lot of people have tried to claim such a legacy, but the historians who've tried had always come up short.

That is a lot of BS man.

I don't particularly care what their lineage is. It is kind of beside the point isn't it?

Also, does it even matter if they are true direct descendants? No.

The only thing that matters is they are dressed up like Templars, talk like Templars, looks like a Templar.

MUST be a Templar.

I find the lineage argument to be totally unconnected to the reality of Templar groups existing today.

That is like saying Mormons are not Real Christians because they cannot trace their lineage back to Jesus.

It's utterly absurd and holds no real meaning at all.

1)The terms "legit Templar" means powerful, rich, influential.

2)The term "fake Templar" means dude in his basement dressed up and played "I wish I was a knight".

That is what I meant by the two terms legit vs fake. Do they have Money or not? If they got money, they are legit. Simple logic.

They look pretty legit to me. They got the money$, they got the goods, they fit the bill.

Now I have to find out, where are the crystal skulls from and who attended this meeting?

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Beautiful POST

You know, I'm beginning to strongly suspect that the ATS Masons only learned about the Freemason-Templar connection in the last few hours, right here, in this thread

despite their claims of everyone knows that

I supect that what we're seeing here is a Freemasonic crisis unfolding before our eyes !

Could this be the case ? Seems so. It's looking like a Freemasonic Loss of Confidence !

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Originally posted by JoshNorton

So if I get a haircut, start wearing a suit, strap on a guitar and start calling my band "The Beatles", then it's 100% obvious that I'm directly derived from the original Beatles? And not just a wannabe?

No...

But if Paul and Ringo come play with you.

YES YOU ARE NOW A BEATLE!

That is why I said. Who were the celebrities that were at this meeting?

If super important people showed up, it gives total legitimacy to it you see?

Just as Ringo and Paul would give you legitimacy for calling yourself a Beatle.

Trust me if you did a album with Paul and Ringo it doesnt matter how bad you suck people will say "he is so awesome" just because the circumstance of you being with two highly respected musicians. Who are Beatles.

It seems to me that the OP, who stated that he intends to continue being a Mason, should be taking his oaths of secrecy and brotherhood more seriously. A post like this would seem to say he hasn't much respect for those oaths.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

Originally posted by muzzleflash
One thing that is weird to me, is that I have heard people claim the Templars don't exist and haven't for over half a millenia.

Templar now =/= Templar then.

Pretty straightforward concept.

Yeah it does.

Uh......no, it isn't.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Last I checked word = word.

If were were debating etymology, you might have a point.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
You cannot say word =/= word.

If we were debating etymology, I might. Depends on the argument.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So if i Look "Templar" up in the dictionary it will say "A Templar but not a real Templar". What the hell does that mean?

Of course the Templars of 500years ago were not the same guys today. They died a long time ago. The guys today were born in this last century.

So yeah technically they are different people.

No feces, Watson! The organisation isn't the same one either. As others have repeatedly pointed out, there's no actual connection between the Templars of old and Templars today. Today's Templars are a relatively modern construct, 19th Century, not 14th.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The organization is the same in it's symbolism and secrecy though. They fly the same flag, wear the same badges and banners, and wear the same cross.

It is for all intents and purposes, very similar.

Similar =/= same. Aspiring =/= achieving

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Granted there may be differences but it is 100% obvious they are directly derived from the original order of Knights Templars.

Similar =/= same.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
That is a lot of BS man.

I don't particularly care what their lineage is. It is kind of beside the point isn't it?

Is it? If you've got 50 groups calling themselves Templars, and for some reason you want to be a Knight Templar, which one are you going to join? What criteria are you going to set to make your selection? Maybe for you it doesn't matter. Maybe flipping a coin is enough. Or maybe you'll want to choose the one that's been around the longest? The one the others are copying?

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Beautiful POST

You know, I'm beginning to strongly suspect that the ATS Masons only learned about the Freemason-Templar connection in the last few hours, right here, in this thread

despite their claims of everyone knows that

I supect that what we're seeing here is a Freemasonic crisis unfolding before our eyes !

Could this be the case ? Seems so. It's looking like a Freemasonic Loss of Confidence !

The Master Masons know quite well what the connections are between the Templar Knights and on to Rome.

It is the one thing that will bring them out in droves to obfuscate and deny.

It’s why they have showed up in mass, and kept on the thread. They will keep on it too, as long as required until it’s just them, talking to them, denying, and cajoling, baiting, and pigeonholing and switching topics all along the way.

Those of the Masonic Brotherhood, who know the connection, are tasked with making sure, no one outside of the organization talks about it or illustrate it.

The Crisis here is the very real possibility one of their own, would potentially reveal everything, and that is that Rome sits on top of the pyramid and that there one saving grace throughout the centuries, that they stand against papal hegemony is trickery and a lie.

They maintain the large online presence that they do for a reason, always watching, always lurking, always waiting to spring into action, to discredit and confuse a situation where the truth might become known.

When tenacious and intelligent people are present, who are not bamboozled by the usual tactics that does create a crisis, that could in fact expose the reality of the Roman Shadow Government still busily involved using divide and conquer tactics, and simple arithmetic to get all divisions to eliminate one another, to form a homogenous mass that spans the globe.

Few of them know the craft to that depth, and few ever will, but the Master Masons do know the link to the Templar Knights and some of them even to Rome, the lower ranks have been trained to close ranks with their Masters.

This thread is a problem for them, the intensity and persistence of the activity they have displayed should in itself be powerful circumstantial evidence, to convince natural skeptics, that there is something involved here, that they truly don’t want you to know!

Originally posted by muzzleflash
But if Paul and Ringo come play with you.

YES YOU ARE NOW A BEATLE!

That is why I said. Who were the celebrities that were at this meeting?

If super important people showed up, it gives total legitimacy to it you see?

Just as Ringo and Paul would give you legitimacy for calling yourself a Beatle.

Trust me if you did a album with Paul and Ringo it doesnt matter how bad you suck people will say "he is so awesome" just because the circumstance of you being with two highly respected musicians. Who are Beatles.

And if I can't get Paul and Ringo? But get some other "super important people" to join me? Can I call my new band the Beatles if there's NO DIRECT LINEAGE to the original group, but just because I've got some other famous lead singer with me?

On April 17 - 18, 2010 a very special World Congress of Secret Societies will take place in Osimo, Italy, that is sponsored by the IOGT and the OSMTH Templar Order of Italy. Delegates from Secret Societies from all over the globe will come together to discuss our common origins and the possibility of reuniting now in a World Alliance for Planetary Enlightenment. We originally began as part of the Underground Stream to both practice and guard the primal gnostic-alchemical path. That goal has been attained and now it is time to reunite for the even greater mission of spreading this important path and its teachings worldwide. If prophecy proves correct, it is now time for the patriarchal theology that stagnates human evolution by affirming that Spirit exists outside the human heart to finally step aside and allow all people to realize the fullness of their innate divinity. The last time a conference of this genre and caliber occurred was in Paris in 1785.

www.gnostictemplars.org...

This is from the World Congress of Secret Societies. Have we touched on this one yet? If we have I apologize and consider this a little refresher on the topic at hand.

This World Congress of Secret Societies met on April 17-18 in Osimo Italy. When I looked into the city of Ancona, where the opening post tells us that this individual was at, I get an image of the very same structure for Osimo Italy.

So I brought up a map and checked to see how far Osimo was from Ancona and I see that it is 20.9 k or 31 minutes away by car. So this is still a very valid claim that the opening post has going for it.