I give up any access to Healthcare if I can do whatever I want.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Dude, sorry to hear about your family farm. That must really suck to not be able to live there and live free. I hope it all works out and somehow you get another farm.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Yes that is correct. If I am not able to pay for whatever care I need then you can let me die. I would rather die as a free man than have the government riding my behind from cradle to grave.

In return, I want untaxed cigarettes, beer, etc. I want access to whatever salt, sugar filled foods that I want to buy. I want to be free to live as unhealthily as I want until the magic day my heart explodes from salt saturated heart giving out because my arteries are clogged with cholesterol. All my own choice, all my own consequences.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Chicken_Bone]

reply to post by Chicken_Bone


So when you run your car into a tree and you can feel the life running out of you as you are slowly dying and can't move without someone pulling you out of the vehicle, at this point you are still hoping people just drive by and honk?

"Hey, it's ChickenBone doing what he does best..."

Give me a break man, people need to let of some steam sometimes, and I am guessing this is your way, but let's get real.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


No I want some people to try to help me get out of the car. I would do the same for them, but if my injuries are life threatening and I cannot afford to pay to fix them then I die.

The way I see it this is a trade. My freedom for no government interference in my choices on what I consume or how much risk I put into my life.

reply to post by Chicken_Bone


This is what I think is ironic CBone.

You want people to help you get out of the car right? But currently, you are not for paying into a system that will help millions and millions of unfortunate people right? So......

Plus man, you can still do about 99% of whatever the hell you still want in life as long as you don't get caught. Just move out to South Dakota where I used to live, get away with murder out there. Land is cheap.

Why are you so focused on HCare? I think you are more a victim of bad press than anything, but you are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


I can still help unfortunate people who need healthcare without the government forcing me too. I can choose to donate money to help them pay the bill or to talk to some of my doctor friends to try to cut them a break, etc....

Beyond that there are tons of free clinics etc... I have no problem giving healthcare to people who are mentally or physically handicapped and cannot help themselves. However, if you are able bodied then get two jobs. One for living expenses and one for insurance, if you want first class treatment. Healthcare is a product.

Oh yeah and my support for the government being too big... add another 4.5 million state and local government workers. That puts us as 7.5 million, not counting military staff.

reply to post by Chicken_Bone


Well in an advanced civilization I am hoping health care is a right, and certainly not a privilege of the rich and well-to-do.

The more I hear you speak the more I am thinking the insurance companies have won you over with their us vs. them rhetoric that was repeated quite a bit on Fox News etc.. ( no offense if you hate FOX as much as I)

There has been a lot of money put into place to make it sound like this was the worst idea in history etc.. It's really not.. how has your life changed since the bill was passed? The real answer is it hasn't, and IMO if you feel that way you are dwelling on things a bit too much.

And I don't think one should have to work 18 hours a day for the privilege of getting to go to the Dr.'s office for preventative care. Once you are on the other side of the coin you will change your mind. Hopefully that doesn't happen to you for quite a while and you lead a successful life. It could happen to you as well though.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Healthcare is not a right. It is a service. The problem we have is that healthcare is ridiculously priced. This is a byproduct of HMO's and government run healthcare programs like Medicare. If people had to pay more out of their own pockets you wouldnt be able to charge what hospitals charge for service, beause no one in their right miind would pay that.

My mom went to the hospital recently for a stomach ache. The bill was $4000. We were there for 8 hours where mostly she laid there with little to no assistance from anyone but myself. That is $500/hr to lay in a room for a freaking bladder infection.

I guess I have a god given right to have my hip replaced when I am 80 years old and I cannot afford it. That is ridiculous.

You know in Europe they are working on making vacations a right. What is next food as a right, tv as a right, cars as a right? We might as well go full communism and just get on with it, if that is the case.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Chicken_Bone]

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Chicken_Bone]

I saw one in the paper where a 99 year olds doctor had told the old guys kids that there 99 year old father needed to cut the amount of salt he uses.

Why bother to try to set a limit on a guy that is 99 years old.
Let him enjoy the rest of his life.
If he wants salt on his food let him have salt on his food.



If i survive to 99 years old i am going to have a whisky and a good cigar.

reply to post by Chicken_Bone


Well I know quite a bit about insurance as I do carry licenses, but IMO the reason it is overpriced is because competition is not allowed currently out of state. This basically gives these companies a monopoly. Check and see what insurance your local hospital takes.. it won't be more than 2 or 3. It is ridiculous I know.. I didn't make the rules though.

So, if I had to change the legislation I would, but you can't always get what you want. Maybe it will come one day.. once we evolve a bit more maybe more people will see this. But your average American is quite stupid and would rather drive a Ford F-150 while eating Cheetos than eat healthy and receive preventative care for the good of their greater health. Again, no offense if you fit that bill, but a pretty good percentage does here in the great state of Florida at least.

ER visits will always be more expensive because, well.. it is EMERGENCY. And as for the care your mother received, I am sorry, but that doesn't have anything to do with anything but Dr.'s that generally don't care as long as you are not gushing blood all over their floors.

reply to post by GreenBicMan

So, if I had to change the legislation I would, but you can't always get what you want. Maybe it will come one day.. once we evolve a bit more maybe more people will see this. But your average American is quite stupid and would rather drive a Ford F-150 while eating Cheetos than eat healthy and receive preventative care for the good of their greater health.

That is just the point. That average american should be able to drive that f-150 and stuff his fat ass with all the cheetos he can afford. It is his life. If he wants to die on that 5000th bag of cheetos it should be his real right to be FREE!

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

So you don't want to pay any taxes...right?



So let's hear your solution on how to fund the needs of society.

right here: Hong Kong

also:

Hong Kong taxes are among the lowest in the world, and the tax regime is simple. Companies pay corporate profits tax of 16.5% and only income sourced in Hong Kong is taxable.

There is no capital gains tax in Hong Kong, withholding tax on dividends and interest or collection of social security benefits.

The salaries tax rate is at a maximum rate of 15%, imposed only on all salary income of individuals derived in or from Hong Kong. The salaries tax is paid on a yearly basis and can be paid in two installments, usually between December and March.

There is no sales tax or VAT in Hong Kong.

right here: Hong Kong Life

They seem to have a fairly nice infrastructure if you ask me!

No one is saying they want to pay any taxes. That would be anarchy (nothing wrong with that. It's how our country started). I'd like to enjoy a mostly free society with MINIMAL taxation. And that taxation ONLY goes to self defense and infrastructure (with some possible TINY things). All government employees should be unpaid. It is a right to serve your country, not a privilege.

reply to post by Chicken_Bone


Not exactly. Because then I have to pay for Cheeto's fat ass when he seeks health care because his blood pressure is about to burst and he spent his last dime on the 28 gallons of gas in his truck.

As I said, once we evolve a bit more down the line somewhere hopefully some of this will change.

Have a nice night C-Dogg'

reply to post by GreenBicMan


See what you have just defined is the very problem wth government involvement in healthcare. Now it becomes a societal problem for fat ass to eat his 5 bags of cheetos a day. Which should be his right.

Before that it was a problem for him, because he would cap out on his insurance after having a couple of bypasses. But no, now we can't cap out on lard ass, because he has a right to unlimited bypasses and now cheetos become evil, even though the rest of us have a handful a month and are perfectly satisfied and healthy.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Chicken_Bone]

reply to post by Chicken_Bone


This will be my last post as we agree to disagree C-Bizzy, but it is a societal problem that people are eating Cheeto's and McDonalds 24/7. It is not advancing us anywhere, but moving us backwards. I promise.

Enjoy-

reply to post by GreenBicMan


It is not a societal problem that people eat McDonalds 24/7. It is a personal problem, unless you have evidence that society is forcing Big Mac's down past fat peoples triple chins.

To take a line from the NRA.
McDonalds don't kill people, people without self control kill themselves.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Chicken_Bone]

Originally posted by muzzleflash
I am a Mortal.

No amount of Healthcare will ever turn that around, will it?

What's the point of life, if you spend your entire life trying to stay alive?

I avoid Hospitals and Doctors at all costs, even if it means suffering.

See, once you get in their system, they keep you in the system.

They keep giving you more and more pills or shots. And those will cause you so many problems you never had before...

That isn't how to live.

Thats the walking dead!


Say NO to Drugs!

[edit on 20-4-2010 by muzzleflash]

What a paranoid opinion, hahahaha.

I literally laughed out loud when I read that. Wait until one day you have a severe pain when you're going to the bathroom, and then finally get it checked out and find out it's colon cancer. But wait, they caught it in its' late stage, and there's nothing they can do to eliminate the cancer, in fact it's been spreading for months. You die two years later after living in terrible agony.

All because some stubborn old mule lived by his philosophy that doctors and medicine are evil! EVIL!

That is the problem though.

Because of our absurd legal system, people generally will NOT pull over to help you in a car wreck "these days".

Why? Because if you "help" them, and accidentally make the situation worse somehow, like by hurting them or something. They will sue you and ruin you over it.

So people usually won't help. And it is because of our absurd legal system, that allows frivolous lawsuits that are taken way out of hand simply due to Greed. Protectionism of pure unadulterated Greed is what got us here.

So if the OP is in a car wreck even today, it's likely no ones gonna pull over. They will prolly call 911 though. Reporting stuff to authorities makes people feel like they are "still helping you sorta".

Point is, our system is broke. You can't fix it with more laws. Thats the problem, we need LESS laws.
Simple and easy to understand ones.

I don't hate all doctors by the way, But I do question them. I have a right to know whats being put into my body, and I have a right to say NO.

You can call me paranoid, or ridicule me as a joke, but the fact is you have no RIGHT to tell me what kind of medical care I should have.

See my philosophy was about what kind of Healthcare program I wanted, and that was a super cheap budget (5$ a year) health care plan.

If you think I should have more Healthcare, are you offering to pay the bills?
Didn't think so...

I personally think Surgeons are the most easily trust-able profession in medicine. You can see a Surgeon working and you know what happens.

Most people pop pills without realizing the plethora of possible life threatening side effects are known to be linked with that drug. This is why I mistrust Pharmacology so much, because it is still such a highly misunderstood and unknown complex system. Even the smartest pharmacist knows very little about these chemical natures.

This is why every pill has side effects, sometimes adverse. We humans simply do not know what we are playing with here. It's fire, thats why I won't touch it.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
That is the problem though.

Because of our absurd legal system, people generally will NOT pull over to help you in a car wreck "these days".

Why? Because if you "help" them, and accidentally make the situation worse somehow, like by hurting them or something. They will sue you and ruin you over it.

So people usually won't help. And it is because of our absurd legal system, that allows frivolous lawsuits that are taken way out of hand simply due to Greed. Protectionism of pure unadulterated Greed is what got us here.

So if the OP is in a car wreck even today, it's likely no ones gonna pull over. They will prolly call 911 though. Reporting stuff to authorities makes people feel like they are "still helping you sorta".

Point is, our system is broke. You can't fix it with more laws. Thats the problem, we need LESS laws.
Simple and easy to understand ones.

I don't hate all doctors by the way, But I do question them. I have a right to know whats being put into my body, and I have a right to say NO.

You can call me paranoid, or ridicule me as a joke, but the fact is you have no RIGHT to tell me what kind of medical care I should have.

See my philosophy was about what kind of Healthcare program I wanted, and that was a super cheap budget (5$ a year) health care plan.

If you think I should have more Healthcare, are you offering to pay the bills?

Didn't think so...

I personally think Surgeons are the most easily trust-able profession in medicine. You can see a Surgeon working and you know what happens.

Most people pop pills without realizing the plethora of possible life threatening side effects are known to be linked with that drug. This is why I mistrust Pharmacology so much, because it is still such a highly misunderstood and unknown complex system. Even the smartest pharmacist knows very little about these chemical natures.

This is why every pill has side effects, sometimes adverse. We humans simply do not know what we are playing with here. It's fire, thats why I won't touch it.

I do agree with you that our legal system is laughable at times. People are simply much too "sue-happy" these days. They'll sue over anything!

I also agree that no one should be forced to buy heath insurance.

And my point wasn't about forcing you to have healthcare. It's that you shouldn't be NOT going to he doctor if you're in terrible pain, haha. Sure, some doctors are bad, that's why there's always second, third, fourth, however many opinions you want. However, I am not oblivious to the fact that this costs money, so it's no necessarily a viable option for everyone. Though, I don't think you should have the idea in your head to stay away from doctors because they're bad and will purposely do thing to have to make you come back for further and further medical help. That has never been the case in my experience, or anyone I know personally.

Trust me, I'm giving you good advice! Go to the doctor if you're in bad pain, it might just save your life