Londoners call lack of contrails (Chemtrails), blissful

reply to post by 911stinks


Oh, for.....Pete's sake!

WHY is it somehow always the links to the (very minor) additives in aviation fuel that tend to ....'fuel'....these nutbag conspiracies?

Those addtives are BURNED UP in the combustion process, before they ever make it into the exhaust gases!

Please show exactly which of those additives will survive the ~2000 degree Celsius environment as fuel is burned.

Why not read about the ADDITIVES in automobile gasoline (petrol)?

en.wikipedia.org...


I am constantly amazed at the shallowness of understanding on this topic!

You inhale MORE hazardous fumes merely crossing the streets whilst dozens of automobiles are sitting there idling their engines than you EVER will from the commercial jet airplanes over your heads at +30,000 feet.

RAW Jet-A contains additives. Big deal! So does RAW gasoline (petrol).

Here's some good advice: Do not bathe in either, nor drink them. Do not inhale them. Don't play with them, don't water your lawn with them.


Now....electric-powered airplanes?

Is this a serious question? Because, to equate model airplanes, and the electric power technology that's been developed for them, compared to the VAST hurdles to be gotten over, in order to mount any such technology in full-scale terms, it is ludicrous at this point, to ask.

ANY person who could break through the tremendous challenges, and rise above them (pun) would be wealthy beyond all measure, if they managed their inventions properly.

ONE day, there will be readily available, and viable, energy technology that will make hydrocarbon-based fuels obsolete. I fear we are a long, long way from that reality, however. Not without some incredible breakthrough.


Finally....to all in the UK. Whilst I haven't lived thre, I have visited on numerous occasions, and I have seen many days of very clear, and blue skies.

I think your resident meterologists should be able to provide records, going back in history, to find instances. Seems human memory is flawed, in that regard sometimes.

MUCH of the conditions seen are a result of the changing weather patterns. As seen here, where I'm living, in the NorthEast USA, presently.

Air traffic overhead is unchanged, yet we've had three days now of almost perfectly clear skies, very very few clouds.

AND...limited contrails, too. BECAUSE, that's the way the atmosphere works. It changes constantly.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Finally....to all in the UK. Whilst I haven't lived thre, I have visited on numerous occasions, and I have seen many days of very clear, and blue skies.

In the best of humor, visits to a location do not give you an appreciation of it's weather patterns as experienced by it's permanent residents.

Take the word of one of them, that the sudden change was quite unusual, though not unprecedented...

However, when the unusual shift occurs precisely when air traffic over probably the worlds busiest airspace is suspended, then i suspect a connection.

Are you really going declare this a coincidence from your distant location?

reply to post by McGinty

Are you really going declare this a coincidence from your distant location?

No, Dr. Strangelove, not precisely.

I suggested, if you recall, a study of the meterological records, to perhaps discover past patterns. Since, of course, human memories can be quite selective.

Also, the latitude of my location is different. Local conditions, and historic weather phenomena will be different.

Day-to-day, month-to-month and seasonal variations occur, as well. Everywhere.

(Mostly, everywhere. One likely most boring 'weatherman' job? Hawai'i... Or, maybe Saudi Arabia. Those are inclusive, not exclusive.)

It would also be interesting to study whether the presence of the ash dispersed in the upper atmosphere is having an effect on weather frontal movements, and how systems interact.

That sort of data will be studied well after this event, and many conclusions may be drawn from it. Along with, the possibility that IT is responsible, tangentially, for the especially clear conditions in the UK.

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Finally....to all in the UK. Whilst I haven't lived thre, I have visited on numerous occasions, and I have seen many days of very clear, and blue skies.

In the best of humor, visits to a location do not give you an appreciation of it's weather patterns as experienced by it's permanent residents.

Take the word of one of them, that the sudden change was quite unusual, though not unprecedented...

However, when the unusual shift occurs precisely when air traffic over probably the worlds busiest airspace is suspended, then i suspect a connection.

Are you really going declare this a coincidence from your distant location?

I live in England, and am aware that the fine weather was forecast before the airspace was closed down. Do you dispute what the forecasts were?

I've seen finer clearer days with bluer sky in November and March when it's been warm enough to eat my lunch outside in the sunshine. To me this weather is a blessing, but nothing completely out of the ordinary. In fact, the weather was just as fine a few weeks ago in early March, when I got sunburnt sitting outside for an hour and a half at lunch time.

reply to post by CAELENIUM


And what about the fuel they dump when they are ready to come in for a landing? They still do that, right? For safety reasons?

That's not so healthy.

www.slate.com...

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Libertygal]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
No, Dr. Strangelove...

Lol, very good Serves me right for choosing the avatar

Well that's a relief. It's good to know i don't have to worry about chemtrails etc. A lot of people here claim they are very real - thanks for helping to debunk this giving me one less thing to worry about.

Originally posted by sunnybunny

Originally posted by McGinty

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Finally....to all in the UK. Whilst I haven't lived thre, I have visited on numerous occasions, and I have seen many days of very clear, and blue skies.

In the best of humor, visits to a location do not give you an appreciation of it's weather patterns as experienced by it's permanent residents.

Take the word of one of them, that the sudden change was quite unusual, though not unprecedented...

However, when the unusual shift occurs precisely when air traffic over probably the worlds busiest airspace is suspended, then i suspect a connection.

Are you really going declare this a coincidence from your distant location?

I live in England, and am aware that the fine weather was forecast before the airspace was closed down. Do you dispute what the forecasts were?

I've seen finer clearer days with bluer sky in November and March when it's been warm enough to eat my lunch outside in the sunshine. To me this weather is a blessing, but nothing completely out of the ordinary. In fact, the weather was just as fine a few weeks ago in early March, when I got sunburnt sitting outside for an hour and a half at lunch time.

Of course we get clear blue skies lol. I don't think anyone is debating that.

But in london with the hundered of planes flying over all the time, it's a nice change not hearing planes and seeing contrails cover the sky even on clear blue sky days.

Originally posted by sunnybunny
I live in England, and am aware that the fine weather was forecast before the airspace was closed down. Do you dispute what the forecasts were?

Fair point, but i'd argue that the forecast are more often wrong than right - particularly regarding central London, so perhaps they got lucky, perhaps not.

But though i've seen many fine blue skies in London - never a sky without a single cloud that lasted three days in a row. Not in 40 years.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by McGinty]

Originally posted by Yellow Teapot

Originally posted by DGFenrir
The pollution caused by the aviation industry doesn't affect your breathing air quality.
JP-8 is only used by the military.

[edit on 18/4/2010 by DGFenrir]

And just how many planes do you think the Military has? It would seem to me, an awful lot more than you give them credit for, and that is without the ongoing Military programs to deliberately manipulate and transform the weather such as, "Weather as a Force Multiplier, Owning the Weather in 2025".

As I already said in one of my posts that the aviation industry is responsible for a low percend of man-made greenhouse gases (CO2 and H2O) compared to other industries.
Do you really believe that the aviation industry's emissions really play a role in breathign air's quality?
If you really want cleaner air then stop burning of fossil fuels.
An hour in the city is more toxic than a week at the countryside watching planes fly over.
This has nothing to do with trust and weather manipulation is a different matter.
Just so you know: Sand particles can travel over oceans.

Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by CAELENIUM

 

And what about the fuel they dump when they are ready to come in for a landing? They still do that, right? For safety reasons?

That's not so healthy.

www.slate.com...

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Libertygal]

Utter rubbish. Planes dump fuel when needed for emergency reasons, to lighten the load, in turn to avoid fires in the brake system, damage to the landing gear structure.

Air fuel is expensive, air lines are doing badly in the economy, they need every drop they can.

No plane dumps fuel coming in on a routine landing.

Originally posted by PatrickJ

Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by CAELENIUM

 

And what about the fuel they dump when they are ready to come in for a landing? They still do that, right? For safety reasons?

That's not so healthy.

www.slate.com...

[edit on 18-4-2010 by Libertygal]

Utter rubbish. Planes dump fuel when needed for emergency reasons, to lighten the load, in turn to avoid fires in the brake system, damage to the landing gear structure.

Air fuel is expensive, air lines are doing badly in the economy, they need every drop they can.

No plane dumps fuel coming in on a routine landing.

No one said routine, or anything like it.

It is not "utter rubbish". Perhaps fuel dumps happen more often than you realize?

www.flyoakland.com...

Aircraft fuel dump

Aircraft have two major types of weight limits: the maximum structural takeoff weight and the maximum structural landing weight, with the maximum structural landing weight always being the lower of the two. This allows an aircraft on a normal, routine flight to take off at the higher weight, consume fuel en route, and arrive at a lower weight. (There are other variables involving takeoff and landing weights, but they are omitted from this discussion for the sake of simplicity.)

It is the abnormal, non-routine flight where landing weight can be an issue. If a flight takes off at the maximum structural takeoff weight and then faces a situation where it must return to the departure airport (due to certain mechanical problems, or a passenger medical issue), there will not be time to consume the fuel meant for getting to the original destination, and the aircraft may be over the maximum structural landing weight to land back at the departure point.

(snip)

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) sets requirements for when and how fuel dumping may occur in Order 7110.65P, Chapter 9, Section 5. This instruction stipulates that fuel can only be dumped above a minimum altitude of 2,000 ft (610 m), to improve its evaporation, and that a dumping aircraft must be separated from other air traffic by at least 5 miles (8 km). Air traffic controllers are also instructed to direct planes dumping fuel away from populated areas and over large bodies of water as much as possible. The same guidelines apply to military aircraft, and most air bases only permit fuel dumping in a specified area.

Despite these restrictions, environmental groups have expressed concern over the potential pollution implications of fuel dumping. It has been estimated that as much as 15 million pounds of fuel was released over the world's oceans by commercial and military aircraft during the 1990s. Although kerosene poses no danger to the ozone layer, it is a petroleum product that can impact water quality much like an oil or gasoline spill.

Of course, I provided a link to a document in my post, but you chose to ignore that. 15 million pounds of fuel must have been a lot of emergencies.

www.nap.edu...

The "upbeat" feeling has to be a combination of the warm weather and the lack of noise. I don't really believe it has any connection with the lack of any contrails.

We haven't had the clearest of skies here. While there may be little in the way of clouds, there is a lot of haze up there.

Not seen anyone mention it, but last night (saturday night) around 8 o clock the evening sky was a very strange greenish colour up here near blackpool. Was at a barbeque so no camera to get a picture of it, but as the sun set and the sky started to darken it definitely had a rather otherworldly green tinge to it.

On a serious note, whilst a few days of peace and quiet have been nice, the damage this is doing to the economy is immense. We are talking about major international airlines needing government bailouts or going bust if this lasts much longer.

Had to laugh at this. On the homepage of this site, this is one of the google ads...


Iceland Glaciers
Cheap Holidays to Stunning Iceland. Book Online Now While Offers Last!
www.Icelandair.co.uk

Dirty grey haze over Birmingham UK today - even more than normal! My black car definately had a layer of grey on it this morning...

Originally posted by jumpingbeanz
even the skies in west midlands are clean clean clean

woooooooo

Yep, I'll vouch for that!

Clear blue skies in the West Midlands in April? Very rare occurrence!

Chemicaltrails all gone! bliss over here in Ireland. ps contrails my arse!

Originally posted by spolvil
Dirty grey haze over Birmingham UK today - even more than normal! My black car definately had a layer of grey on it this morning...

Err, I'm currently looking outside at clear blue skies with a slight haze at the horizon (or as much of it as you can see from anywhere in the Black Country).

BTW, I also agree that good weather was forecast for the weekend, but it was supposed to rain yesterday, but it was 20C and sunny as hell here.

I suppose it's not unheard of to get clear blue skies in April, but it is unusual, especially in pollution centre, the West Midlands.

A-B-S-O-L-U-T-L-Y WONDERFUL.


My family are all loving it.

Clearest skies for years.

Millions of tonnes of greenhouse gasses saved from going into the air too, so that's a bonus.

Couldn't give a toss if a few shareholders have lost 1 or 2 pence of the value of their shares either!

Long may it continue.

reply to post by Libertygal


Humans are SO intelligent aren't we!

How is it, that i can read a post and devise a solution to both the hazards and costs associated with fuel dumping, in a little under 10 seconds flat?

The SIMPLE solution would be for each airliner to carry a few sets of reinforced carbon fibre pressure containers, that have either a glide device, or parachutes attached and flotation device for over water. When out of populated areas, the excess fuel can simply be pumped into these tanks, and jettisoned to be retrieved by dedicated recovery almost immediately.

It's insane from both an environmental (human and biosphere health) point of view, and also from a financial/cost point of view to simply dump the poison into the atmosphere or the seas.

Carbon fibre tanks, fitted internally with exterior jettison flap(s) or hatches would add minimal weight to an aircraft, and the cost ratio of installing them, would be negligible in comparison to the costs of a) the fuel and b) to us.

Too simple for them i expect.

Edit to add; I wasn't knocking you Libertygal, but the airlines...re-read my post, and it appeared i was having a bash at you, but i assure you that wasn't it.

[edit on 19/4/2010 by spikey]

reply to post by Libertygal


Libertygal.....

I did read your links. Did you?

Your first one, from "wikianswers", explains it perfectly.

Note the word they used..."abnormal".

Airlines do NOT dump fuel willy-nilly! Sheesh, the whole problem (one of many) in the airline industry is the cost of fuel...it is a MAJOR item in the budgets, nowadays.

Historically, fuel expenses have ranged from 10 percent to 15 percent of U.S. passenger airline operating costs, but averaged more than 35 percent in the third quarter of 2008.

www.airlines.org...


And, your other link, in the post....it was a chart/data about OIL SPILLS by naval vessels!! On the seas, and oceans of the world!

Can we finally stop spreading this misinformation?

Look here, too. It seems that MOST laypersons have the incredibly incorrect notion that ALL jets can 'dump' fuel (we call it 'jettison')...not true.

Boeing models, In-Flight Fuel Jettison Ability

Airbus, the other major airliner manufacturer, doesn't seem to have a handy-dandy chart online, but I can tell you that, like Boeings, it is generally ONLY the wide-bodies that have jettison capability.

That would be the (old) A-300s....and the A-330 and A-340. (And A-380, forgot that one, since it's so new. The A-350, also...when it comes online in about 2012...)

In the USA there are very few A-300s left (American Airlines) and only USAir has the A-330s (not sure how many). Northwest (now Delta) have 31 A-330s.

Other airlines, worldwide, operate larger numbers of Airbus product.










[edit on 19 April 2010 by weedwhacker]