I helped Obama campaign staffer Divorah Adler create a fake birth certificate [HOAX]

reply to post by DJW001

Yeah I guess the topic is about her falsifying documents and we are of the position they are real so I guess nothing.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


It seems to me that the entire debate hinges on the word "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN." Which presents our circular logic. That said, I just found that that by definition his father could be a citizen just for being on US soil and that even if only one parent was a US citizen then he could be born abroad and still be a "natural born citizen" Therefore, it only makes logical sense to concede my position altogether and join the Non Birther movement. I gave it a good ride but I know when I'm wrong I say I'm wrong. I was wrong. But, this hasn't been unproductive as it can be educational for others who share similiar concerns.

The source of the definitions on a "natural born citizen" -which is what the whole Birther debate IS about at it's heart- is:
www.obamaconspiracy.org...

reply to post by PhyberDragon


No. The thread is no longer about the original story. The original story is a self confessed HOAX. We are now watching the self-deceived trying to rationalize their beliefs. Erm, I suspect we're actually on the same side here....

reply to post by DJW001


Well, I'm schizophrenic so knowing where I'm at on any issue is a full time job. So people are more intelligent and read on the subject than I and sometimes it feels like I am just playing catch up. I rationalized, albeit in maybe an irrational approach, the only conclusion I could make on the issue. He is a natural born US citizen entitled to be President, which is good news for my mulatto family members. I wasn't wrong, just missing a piece which altered my view of the entire thing and it took arguing to find it. Not everyone arrives at their answers in the same way and it is easy to see why men war.

reply to post by PhyberDragon


Erm, I think we're actually on the same page here... Mods? Can we close this thread... please?

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

It seems to me that the entire debate hinges on the word "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN." Which presents our circular logic. That said, I just found that that by definition his father could be a citizen just for being on US soil and that even if only one parent was a US citizen then he could be born abroad and still be a "natural born citizen" Therefore, it only makes logical sense to concede my position altogether and join the Non Birther movement. I gave it a good ride but I know when I'm wrong I say I'm wrong. I was wrong. But, this hasn't been unproductive as it can be educational for others who share similiar concerns.

The source of the definitions on a "natural born citizen" -which is what the whole Birther debate IS about at it's heart- is:
www.obamaconspiracy.org...

Wow! All I can say is wow. It is so rare to see someone concede anything on ATS that I am very impressed and shocked. I am glad that we had this conversation as apparently we both learned at least a little something from it.

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
I wasn't wrong, just missing a piece which altered my view of the entire thing and it took arguing to find it.

Sometimes that's what it takes. I get tired after a while, but when my husband asked me (just yesterday) why I spend so much time putting the information out there, I told him that there's a chance someone will gain a piece of information that they didn't have before and will get it. It's rare, but it does happen.

Even though this thread was hoaxed, and rightfully so, it's got a lot of good information in it now.

I think the law stating that you have to be born here to be a president is out-dated. The country was founded by immigrants. I don't really care if he wasn't born here. The fact is he grew up here since he was a child and he's lived the majority of his life here and he's a US citizen (maybe not natural born, but US none the less). I think that should be enough to qualify him.

Observation:
It's really interesting how more Obama supporters tend to come out whenever a birther thread is proven to be a [HOAX].

reply to post by Alxandro


A sudden case of group think mentality and the cozy feeling of safety in numbers. Much like a colony of prairie dogs forever popping their heads out their respective holes to see if the coast is clear.

Just a joke of course!

Originally posted by Alxandro
Observation:
It's really interesting how more Obama supporters tend to come out whenever a birther thread is proven to be a [HOAX].

Observation:
It is even more interesting how people like you continue to support an idea that repeatedly ends up being based on a hoax.

And sharing information (even if it's within a HOAX thread) is never wrong. That's why we're here.

Something tells me some people are uncomfortable with the fact that one person actually discovered the truth and left his birther ideas behind because of the info shared in this thread. That's OK. You can be uncomfortable and even try to make us stop posting in this thread by mocking us or whatever. But just so you know... if I stop posting here, it's going to be because I want to and nothing you say will make any difference.

Originally posted by Mikemp44
Birthers!!!! Get the birthers!!!! Lets call them names, chastise them and say how we have so much proof of his eligiblity even though we never cite anything other than a simple Hawaii BC claiming he was indeed born! Wait, it doesn't specify Hawaii? Your only saying that because you are a birther!!!

I swear these idiots use circumstance as excuse, while excusing themselves for their circumstance. Why have birthers been labelled as outcasts, while the thick-headed bastards who spew venom on them do not even have ground to stand upon. Saying "show me proof" to a birther is fine, birthers would LOVE to be able to give you hard evidence and attempt to, but those on the other side who chastice them rely on one single SUSPICIOUS BC from Hawaii claiming he was born, not necessarily there mind you, and prop it up like it is the last word? It is very easy to defend a lie with a lie, but God forbid they actually find the long form certificate to end the issue.

But no, lets just divide ourselves further and keep screeming Birthers and kool-aid drinkers!!!!! HAVE WE ALL GONE MAD!?!

WOW! A rant unapologetically supporting a hoax. Yeah for the hoax! Gimmie a L. L. Gimmie an I. I. Gimme an E. E. What does that spell? Birther LIE. Go Lies.

I have no idea whether Mr. Obama is an American citizen or not, and at this point don't care. Actually no one posting here knows, a priori, the truth concerning his birth certificate .

But I ask both sides this question:

With Zbigniew Brezezinski as Obama's mentor, as well as Jimmy Carter's, how can there be a problem producing a birth certificate that could be accepted by the people? Simple question.

Zig Brezezinski co-founded the Tri-lateral Commission with David Rockefeller and between the two of them, should have been able to produce A reasonable facsimile of BO's birth certificate, if needed, considering these guys are 2 of the most powerful men on the Earth. The resources of all of mankind at their disposal.

This should have been "easy money" for Zig. A document, this important, surely wasn't "overlooked".

What gives?

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Oldnslo]

Originally posted by Oldnslo
Zig Brezezinski co-founded the Tri-lateral Commission with David Rockefeller and between the two of them, should have been able to produce A reasonable facsimile of BO's birth certificate, if needed, considering these guys are 2 of the most powerful men on the Earth. The resources of all of mankind at their disposal.

Excellent point! If Obama is a usurper and wanted to provide "proof" that he was born in the US, he has, at his disposal, the best experts in the world. They could produce an exact replica of a perfectly legal-looking Hawaiian BC for the world to see... They could produce a fake that NO ONE, not even the experts, could prove fake.

Why doesn't he do that? IF, in fact, he was born outside the US, and is an evil implant of some sort, why doesn't he just provide this fake and put the whole birther issue to rest?

There's only one logical answer to that: Because there's no reason to do so. He IS a natural born citizen and his documents in the Hawaii's Health Department vaults prove it.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by jackflap

 

I find it strange that no one ever heard of him before he wanted to run for President.

I had heard of him before he wanted to run for President...but I live in Illinois.

I probably started hearing his name on the local news around 2002...just in passing...about this issue or that or a law he is pushing for or whatever. THen of course I started hearing a lot more of him in 2004 when he was running for Senate.

And at the 2004 DNC speech he gave I remember telling my wife specifically..."He will be the next President of the United States". It was just one of those things that popped into my head that seemed to make sense.

So just because you never heard of him...doesn't mean anything.

I live in Texas, and I said the exact same thing.

And regarding the original comment - some people think that just because they're ignorant about someone or something, that same ignorance applies to everyone.

Good lord. He did provide a birth certificate that is accepted by most of America as well as the court in which his and McCain's natural born citizenship status was questioned. He doesn't need the trilateral commission or anything else. He was born in Hi, there were multiple birth announcements in Hi, its verified he has a legitimate hawaiian BC.

Let it go. Anyone still arguing that the socialist isn't a natural born us citizen isn't listening to reason.

reply to post by Anti-Evil


Here's an idea.

When you find an ultra-wild claim like this online, before going around howling "THIS IS THE SMOKING GUN!!!!" it might not be a bad idea to do the quick search that helped you identify this as a hoax BEFORE you put up the "smoking gun" post.

Saves on embarrassment that way.....

reply to post by K J Gunderson

INRE: reply posted on 13-4-2010 @ 03:13 PM by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by russ212
However, I must say that your lack of evidence is as weak. You telling me that you can no longer get the long form. Prove that!
The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.
The department only issues “certifications” of live births, and that is the “official birth certificate” issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.
And, it’s only available in electronic form.
Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.
“At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting,” she said.
Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.
Feel free to call the Hawaii Department of Health and prove otherwise. I will be waiting for your polite retraction.
Kinau Hale 1250 Punchbowl Street
Honolulu, HI 96813
(808) 586-4400

REFERENCING (Originally posted by russ212):

IF YOUR MAKING THE STUFF UP IT STILL DOES NOT SPELL OUT A SUCCESSFUL CONCLUSION FOR THE LAW MUST BE CHALLENGED, OBAMA HAS NEVER & NO ONE IN THE RIGHT STATE OF MIND HAS THE GUTS TO CHALLENGE THE MEANING OF THE LAW. THE QUESTION IS NOT WHETHER HAWAII WAS A FULLY RECOGNIZED STATE OR WHETHER SOME OF ITS CITIZENS WERE WITHOUT LEGAL REPRESENTATION OR REGISTRATION. OBAMA'S MOTHER DID NOT CERTIFY THE COPY, OBAMA DID AND LONG AFTER THE ALLOWABLE TIME SO HE IS STILL A CITIZEN OF KENYA AND A LOYAL BRITISH SUBJECT BECAUSE OF HIS FATHER BEING A MILITARY MAN IN THE BRITISH MILITARY, OBAMA CERTIFIED THE NAME CHANGE LONG AFTER THIS QUESTION OF KENYAN CITIZENSHIP MAKING HIM THE ONE THAT HAS TO CHALLENGE THE LEGALITY NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. OBAMA HAS THEREFORE COMMITTED A FRAUD BY REPRESENTING HIMSELF AS A LIVE BIRTH WHICH IS SIGNIFICANT OF A U.S. BORN INDIVIDUAL BECAUSE ALL HE IS SAYING IS THAT HE CAN CHANGE HIS CITIZENSHIP CERTIFICATION BECAUSE HIS MOTHER IS A U.S. CITIZEN AND SHE IS DEAD. ALL THE HAWAIIAN REGISTRAR'S OFFICE IS SAYING IS THEY ISSUED A LIVE BIRTH CERTIFICATE BASED ON WHAT OBAMA TOLD THEM TO DO, BASED ON TESTIMONY OF A FORMER EMPLOYEE THERE IS NOT A LEGAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE ON FILE FOR BARACK OBAMA IN HAWAII AND NEVER HAS BEEN NOR ISSUED BY THE STATE OF HAWAII. THE HONOLULU COMMUNITY COLLEGE STATED THAT AT THE TIME THIS WAS OCCURRING THAT THE LAW OF HAWAII DID NOT REQUIRE A UNIVERSITY STUDENT TO HAVE TO BE A RESIDENT FOR TWO YEARS PRIOR TO REGISTRATION AT THE HONOLULU COMMUNITY COLLEGE OR OTHER UNIVERSITY AND HIS MOTHER NOR HIS FATHER HAD BEEN RESIDENTS WITH THE GRANDMOTHER OF OBAMA FOR TWO YEARS OR MORE PRIOR TO THEIR REGISTRATION. SO WHAT LAW IS BEING UPHELD HERE THE CURRENT LAW OR THE LAW OF THE PAST? ONE YEAR RESIDENCE PRIOR TO THE BIRTH OF THE CHILD, "NOT USING A GRANDPARENT ADDRESS", WHICH IS WHAT THEY HAD TO DO CAUSE THEY HAD NO LEGAL ADDRESS. YOUR BAT.