Turkey To Challenge Israel, Support Hamas

Originally posted by BLV12


I didn't say the Turkish government supported the Chechen terrorists.

I thought you've implied that the Turkish Government supports these Chechens .

There were plenty of Turks who volunteered and went. Do you think this happened with out the knowledge and assistance of MIT?

Unofficially speaking , of course the MIT knew all about it but I doubt MIT would of provided any kind of support .



In fact according to the Russians, the recent Moscow subway bombings, the suicide bombers were part of a squad of about 30 females who were trained in a madrasah in Turkey.

Madrasa concept is actually againt the Turkish Law . As for the those bombers being trained in Turkey ; I sincerely doubt it .


Yes, that's right. That's how far deep the connection is.

Chechen connection is of course as deep as it gets but this is not a relationship of equals .


And no, I'm not saying Turkey is a radical islamist country. But it's fast headed that way thanks to your current government.

Anatolian Turks have never been a radical islamist in their entire muslim history . As for it being ' my government ' well , my Hellas friend , I have never voted for them nor have I lived in Turkey in last 25 years .

Radical Islam defenders are not so popular in Turkey .
Turks have a more liberal strain of Islam .



I'll give you another example, a bit different this time.
A couple hundred Greeks volunteered and went to fight against the Mujahadeen in the breakup of Yugoslavia. This happened with the full knowledge of the Greek intellifence services. They even assisted them. The government wasn't involved and was kept in the dark.

ha ha ha

I know all this , I could even tell you what base those guys gathered to start with .
But my Hellas friend , Turks and Greeks are not following the same train of thought .

Greeks are subscribing to ' enemy of my enemy is my friend ' line of thought .
Whereus Turks are following the motto of ' peace at home , peace at world ' line of thought .



Why would Russia co-operate with Turkey? Because Turkey's strategic location and holding of the straights obviously.
America and the UK supported the Chechens too. They even offered the leader of the Chechen terrorists responsible for the Beslan school seige/attack asylum. And that was in western media mind you.

Yet Russia still does trade with them.


Russian & Turks are far more entegrated in last 20 years then they have ever done so .
In fact , when one scracthes a skin of a Russian; a Tatar is to be found beneath .

Turks & Russians are both Eurasians , that is why they actually get on .

More news from Turkish stance against Israeli politics:

Turkish PM won't back Iran sanctions

Washington (CNN) - Turkey's prime minister declined to support President Barack Obama's push for tough new sanctions against Iran but said his country was willing to act as a mediator in the diplomatic standoff over Tehran's nuclear ambitions.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Turkey has had a strategic alliance with Iran since the 17th century and wants a diplomatic solution to end the deadlock. Erdogan spoke to CNN's Christiane Amanpour while in Washington to attend the Obama administration's summit on nuclear security, saying, "I believe that we can find a way out."

"I am here for a diplomatic solution," he said. Countries that are members of the International Atomic Energy Agency and the 1968 Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) "must all work together on this, and as (for) Turkey, we could act as a very important intermediary."

amanpour.blogs.cnn.com...

So Turkey is against actions towards Iran and linking this to earlier news what I posted here - It really backs up that there is something really balance changing coming out from Turkey...

- Black horse of Middle East politics and security? Quess so.

Originally posted by JanusFIN
More news from Turkish stance against Israeli politics:

Turkish PM won't back Iran sanctions

So Turkey is against actions towards Iran and linking this to earlier news what I posted here - It really backs up that there is something really balance changing coming out from Turkey...

- Black horse of Middle East politics and security? Quess so.

They are also calling for Israel to abandon it's nuclear arsenal.
Strange isn't it?

Let's just hope that Turkey's shift away from the west, isn't used as an excuse for the powers that be to get their little war in the Aegean finally.


As for my Turkish friend above...I didn't say Turkey or Turks subscribe to radical islam. But there are enough of such types of people in Turkey.
And as for doubts over the chechen cell dubbed the "Black Widows" being trained in Turkey, that is information from the Russians. According to them, ie the FSB, several had already been killed in attacks before the Moscow subway attack. There were originally 30, after the subway attack 21 were still being sought.

You shouldn't bury your head in the sand about what is happening to Turkey, to save face online. The last thing anyone wants is another Iran. Particularly on Europe's door step. It's not like anyone is getting enjoyment seeing what's going on and where Turkey is headed.

Turks will not emulate the Persians but rather help them change .

Iran's current model is not suited to Turk's needs either but hey lesser the devil you know ....


Where is Turkey heading ?

Question is mute , the river shall find it's bed to flow .

Anyone who checks the birth stats already can see what is going to happen in 50 years .

Peace at home , peace at world .

Originally posted by ChrisR

THAT'S a big deal -- Britain?! About time this one-sided, blind support for Israel was questioned. Let them stand or fail on their own.

British people do not care about Isreal.

And what birth rates would those be, the Turkish ones or the Kurdish ones?
Because in 50 years, the Kurdish population will be much, MUCH bigger then it is today(some say around 20% of the population is already Kurdish).

And unless I'm mistaken, Kurds have higher birth rates then Turks(and that's from Turkish people I know).

So better start making friends with them today, while you still have a chance.
If they are willing to fight you while you out gun them and out man them, I'd hate to think what they would be willing to do when the numbers are closer.

Another news confirming Turkey wont support Israel anymore:

Refused permission to fly in Turkish airspace, the Israel Air Force has its eyes on Europe and Asia as it searches for new training grounds for its fighter jets with an emphasis on long-range missions.

In recent years, due to the various threats it faces, primarily from Iran, the IAF has increased its long-range training missions. Most notable was in 2008, when 100 IAF aircraft flew over Greece in an exercise that was perceived as a dress rehearsal for a strike against Iran.

www.jpost.com...

They key detail there is that the Israeli military believes relations will never be the same again between the two.

There is another big air exercise scheduled with Greece for the end of May.
Part of the exercises will be held over the Eastern Aegean in Greek airspace and the Athens FIR(flight information region) - the area were air space violations by Turkey occur every day. So it's going to be interesting to see how that goes down.

Their last exercise with Greece was Glorious Spartan 2008 I believe(not sure if there was one in 2009). But GS 2008 was Israel's biggest deployment abroad, over 100 fighter jets from Israel alone were involved.

Another news from poroblems between Turkey and Israel:

Israel Rejects Turkish Request to Buy Arms

Israel has declined a request by Turkey to purchase several different military systems, including an anti-tank guided weapon and a missile system for its navy.

The request by the Turkish government was rejected by Israel's SIBAT, the defense assistance and export organization, which is currently reviewing each order on a case-by-case basis.

Turkey said it wanted to buy the Spike non-line-of-site (NLOS) anti-tank guided weapon, the Namer heavy infantry fighting vehicle, and the Israel Aerospace Industries' (IAI) Barak 8 theater-defense missile system for its navy, according to UK-based Jane's Defence Weekly.

www.israelnationalnews.com...

Fleet of aid ships are getting ready...

“Introducing The MV Rachel Corrie”

www.countercurrents.org...

It's getting interesting.

Israel refuses to sell Turkey advanced naval Barak-8 interceptor
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report April 27, 2010, 4:50 PM (GMT+02:00)

Tags: Barak 8 interceptor Israel Turkey
Israel's Barak-8 naval shield

Israel has turned down several Turkish requests for advanced military hardware, according to Israeli and Western intelligence sources. Sources in Ankara say that the impact from Prime minister Tayyep Recep Erdogan's alignment with Syria and Iran and poisonous attacks on Israel is beginning to cut into the Turkish army's operational capabilities. In recent weeks, Turkish naval chiefs tried to find out in particular if Israel would be willing to sell the Barak 8 missile interceptor, whose radar provides 360-degree coverage against incoming missiles or air attack, and which was developed in partnership with India.
Security sources told debkafile that it was decided in Jerusalem not to sell, in case Erdogan decided to allow Iranian military intelligence experts to study the Barak-8 and analyze its technology. This interceptor is a key defensive component for the Israeli missile and warships patrolling the Persian Gulf seas opposite Iran, the Red Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean opposite Syrian and Lebanese shores.

Read the rest at
www.debka.com...


The reason it's getting interesting is because Debka is a well known propaganda site. Although from time to time they do post some factual information that isn't distorted or twisted.
Seems the rift between Israel and Turkey is going to be permanent for quite a while.

The interesting thing about this is that there are no reports that there are no reports of Turkey ever seeking the Barak-8.

So, the plot thickens.

From the debka article...

In recent weeks, Turkish naval chiefs tried to find out in particular if Israel would be willing to sell the Barak 8 missile interceptor, whose radar provides 360-degree coverage against incoming missiles or air attack, and which was developed in partnership with India.

WAS DEVELOPED IN PARTNERSHIP WITH INDIA...

Then, WHY Turkey doesn't ask India?

Anyway...

EDIT: Israel 'cuts arms sales to Turkey'

Israel will impose a temporary freeze on the sale of advanced weapons systems to Turkey, once a key ally, because of blistering criticism of the Jewish state by Turkey's Islamist Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Jane's Defense Weekly reports.

It seems serious.

They are still business together...

Jane's Defense Weekly reported that despite the nosedive in diplomatic relations, Israel and Turkey have maintained "a cautious business relationship" and discussed the joint sale of upgraded U.S.-built M-60 main battle tanks to Colombia.

Israel Military Industries and Arselan of Turkey delivered the last of 170 upgraded General Dynamics M-60A1 tanks to Turkey's army on April 7. Jane's Defense Weekly said a senior Colombian general attended the handover ceremony.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by BLV12

As for my Turkish friend above...I didn't say Turkey or Turks subscribe to radical islam. But there are enough of such types of people in Turkey.

Similarly there are enough pedophiles in Western countries, let's go bomb them..

Very interesting news how Turkey can harm Israel in economy/political field...

LONDON: A group of European Muslim dignitaries, including representatives of major Muslim and Islamic organizations is set to visit Turkey, early May, in a bid to get the Turkish government to veto Israel’s possible accession to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

Originally scheduled for late April but postponed due to the volcanic ash crisis, the visit is the culmination of a campaign initiated by Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC) requesting the Turkish government voice its opposition to the Israeli application. So far, thousands of letters and emails from citizens around the world have been sent to the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

bikyamasr.com...

If Turkey vetoes Israels OECD membership next week, Arab nations wont back up further peace negotiations in next summit and Iran sanctions wont move as USA has planned in UN Security Council (giving presidency of UNSC to Lebanon in June) ... - And same time Turkish aid fleet is closing Gaza port - WOW!!!

We have very dangerous political situation growing in ME in just few weeks!

[edit on 28-4-2010 by JanusFIN]

reply to post by JanusFIN


It is about time that people notice that Palestinians are human too!! WE ARE ALL BEING PERSECUTED, LIVING LIKE ANIMALS!!! CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIM!!!!!!!! JUST BECAUSE WE ARE ARABS!!!!!!!!!!!! We are human too. We are not all terrorists. It is not fair that we should be treated like animals, when we are the most hospitable, most family oriented people on this planet!!!! We are not all war mongering scum! Put yourself in our shoes. We love our families, and want the best for ourselves. I dont want to see the majority of us living like bush people. We are not that! Given the chance we love university, we love knowing more! We love learning, to be the best we can be.

We are Not Animals! We are peaceful, but we love our dignity, because we love our lives, and our families.

Read about Collectivism and learn that our incentives in life are our families and our right to live and be peaceful among our fathers, mothers, and siblings!

reply to post by JanusFIN



Washington's reaction is going to be extremely interesting if Turkey manages to stuff things up that badly for them.

I think that if Turkey doesn't change path soon, we are going to start seeing the west turn on Turkey. NATO could very well expel Turkey, and the EU will likely throw out their application to join, and throw them out of all institutions/organizations/agencies/committees they might be part of.

If that happens, all Turkey has left is the OECD, BSCC, and that Islamic group of nations.

Even more interesting will be what America will do with Turkey's participation in the JSF F35 program, and what Europe will do with Turkey being part of the A400M military aircraft transport program.

Latest news I've heard, have no link to back it up yet sorry, is that the Knesset voted to look into recognising the Armenian genocide.

I have a lot to say, but now is not the time. Will have to wait and see if this rift is permanent, and if it will get worse and whether America will follow(Israeli lobby in US is very powerful). What I have to say is a general comment of sorts.

Which brings me to another point. The Israeli/Jewish lobby in the US has been a big supporter of Turkey over the years, of course paid to be by the Turkish government. We saw some fluttering after the Gaza operation and Turkish 'blow up', from the Israeli lobby against Turkey. If this too becomes permanent, thing's will get very interesting.

Latest in this issue... Aid ships are soon to take their trip to Gaza from Turkey!

Israel detains Turkey national over illegal Gaza aid work

The Israel Defense Forces and the Shin Bet arrested a Turkish national suspected of being a member of an outlawed Islamic group, a released gag order revealed on Monday.

Izzet Shahin, a volunteer for the Turkish NGO Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH), was arrested in the West Bank by Israeli security forces two weeks ago and had been transferred to a Shin Bet investigation.

IHH, who had been organizing a Gaza aid boat planned to depart at the end of the month, was outlawed in Israel a few years ago.

www.haaretz.com...

Russia, Turkey to sign number of oil, gas documents - Kremlin
en.rian.ru...

Hezbollah praises Turkish premier's stance against Israel

Beirut - The Lebanese Shiite movement Hezbollah on Monday hailed what it described as an "historic stance" by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan against Israel. "We praise the courageous stand by ... Erdogan in confronting the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians and the Arab cause," a statement issued by the group quoted Hezbollah lawmaker Ali Fayad as saying. "We salute Prime Minister Erdogan for his stand that has gathered Arab and Islamic support, especially his comments about al Aqsa Mosque," it read.

www.earthtimes.org...

This is wonderful news if it is true and, especially, if Turkey is successful. Maybe the whack jobs in Tel Aviv will attack Turkish ships and then the USA will show its true colors. Now is a good time to settle this issue. The clearly sociopaths governing Israel must be stopped. We have the same trouble here in Texas and Arizona.

Time to make some decisions. With this economic meltdown and growing awareness of just how corrupt the politicians have become, these decisons and necessary actions are way overdue.

The pitiful house of cards in Israel needs to be knocked down as soon as possible before these militant sociopaths start firing off their nukes and junk provided by Uncle Sugar. The status quo is no longer an option, not when we have learned the terrible truth about 911 and the silly terrorist stunts.

It is a very tired cliche, but you can fool some of us most of the time but not all of us all of the time. Tell Netanyahu and Mike Bloomberg that we got it, we know.