Why So Secretive?

Originally posted by illusioned2
Thank you! As a Mason, is "Legacy of a Cowan" how one is encouraged to dodge questions from outsiders? I was stunned for a moment when that was said to me but I figured that perhaps that was a normal response to one that was not of the club.

there are many different ways of diverting a conversation
away from Masonry. I guess this response is how this
particular Mason tried to divert. Maybe he didn't feel
comfortable in the situation when asked. There could
be a number of reasons why. But in answer to your
question, there is NO standard response for a Mason
to give when asked about his enlightenment. It varies
from Mason to Mason.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I will find the pictures of the George Washington statue & the illustration of Satan for your comparison. Just give me a moment or two to find & post.

I have been in about 20 different lodges in my state
and also the Grand Lodge. And never have I seen
a statute of George Washington in any of them.
But I have seen pictures of him in many different
poses

Originally posted by Afterthought
I am happy to hear that you & your brothers would be on the side of the people.

My lodge would also be on the side of the people

Originally posted by Afterthought
Also, I hope you folks aren't exposing your genitalia as that is the reason for no windows in bathrooms. If that is the case, I would be very worried.

lmao, no we have never exposed genitalia in any lodge I have
attended, however a brother did leave for the restroom one night
and came back with his fly open, hahahaha
does that count????

Originally posted by Afterthought
Regarding my question about Jesus, I had read an account where a former Mason was discussing his experiences within a lodge. He was asked to say the prayer & mentioned Jesus. Afterwards, a head Mason approached him & asked him to refrain from speaking about Jesus since he might offend other lodge members. He could speak of God, but not Jesus.

Sounds like this guy was just an arrogant pr!ck.
Our chaplain uses the word God in his ceremonial prayers
but when prayer is required outside of ceremony, then
yes Jesus' name is mentioned in our lodge.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

If this is the statue you are refering to then it is a depiction of George Washington as a 'modern day Cincinnatus' by Horatio Greenough and resides at the Smithsonian. Cincinnatus was the Roman general who was elected dictator and then, after defeating the threat to the Republic, stepped down after returning his sword for his plough. The statue is a stylized version of this as Washington is symbolically returning his sword to the Congress. Many in Congress wanted him to become king but he declined by saying, "I did not fight George III to become George I."

For what it is worth it was intended to be a copy of the statue of Zeus by Phidias for the Temple of Zeus at Olympia, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.

Perhaps I should add something here regarding the statue...

The sword pointing to a heart was once part of the ritual of the third degree, but has not been used for many years. Here is the original piece of ritual:

The Sword, pointing to a naked heart, demonstrates that Justice will sooner or later overtake us, and, although our thoughts, words and actions may be hidden from the eyes of man, yet that All-Seeing Eye, whom the sun, moon and stars obey, and under whose watchful care even comets perform their stupendous revolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human heart and will reward us according to our merit.

Although it is no longer in the ritual, the symbolism of this piece is retained in the reception of the candidate by the inner guard in the First Degree.

[edit on 12/4/2010 by Saurus]

The big secret is not that we are hiding things from you. Freemasonry isn't in the business of "selling itself" or convincing people that we are one thing or another.

The reason we keep our activities to ourselves can best be exemplified by your opening post.

"Why the creepy ceremony?"

The outside world judges what it doesn't understand. You had a preconceived notion that Freemasonry is creepy and therefore whether it was secret or open you still would consider it creepy.

People focus too much on the handshakes and passwords and rituals, which they surmise have some magical or evil power. These are not the "Secrets" that are at the core of Freemasonry.

The biggest "Secret" in Freemasonry can be discovered in almost any other spiritual path or journey. We keep it from no one. We keep the things private that are important to us. These "symbols" for lack of a better word mean something very important to a Mason. I couldn't even explain it if I tried.

Unlike preachers and politicians, Freemasons don't care whether you like us or not, and we don't care if you believe us or not. We don't proclaim to have exclusive access to wealth, immortality or world domination.

We are simply a group of men on a spiritual journey to make ourselves and the world a better place.

I would like to add that Freemasonry does NOT have all the secrets to life and is not the way to enlightenment...it is just another tool in life to help though. Freemasonry is an amplifier of the soul that interacts with you spiritually and mentally to become a better person spiritually, mentally, and physically. There is more to life than Masonry. Freemasonry is just a tool in life and not the means to and end.

Originally posted by Saurus


The sword pointing to a heart was once part of the ritual of the third degree, but has not been used for many years.

Actually, this symbol is still used as a Third Degree symbol in most jurisdictions, including my own.

reply to post by bushidomason


You can say that again.

But it sure seems like many police are masons, judges are masons and politicians are masons. Surely you help yourself to advantages?

Originally posted by Afterthought
I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble posting the photos. If you look up the statue of Washington in DC, then google images of Baphomet, you will see what I mean by the same pose.

Just for the record, the figure known as "Baphomet", originally created by Eliphas Levi, is not "Satan". Levi's Baphomet is in large part based upon the classical renditions of the Greek nature god Pan.

The position of the hands in both Levi's Baphomet and the statue of Washington you are referring to is both Hermetic and Alchemical. It refers to the Hermetic maxim "As above, so below".

Originally posted by Afterthought

1. Why don't your lodges have any windows?

Because the ceremonies performed there are of a private nature.

2. What types of decorations & wall ornamentations do the lodges have?

The ornaments and decorations of a Lodge are not secret. The interior of many Lodge rooms can be seen online, and at public functions of your own local Lodge.

3. Why is George Washington's Statue in the same pose & garb as the way Satan is famously illustrated? (I will post photos of what I mean if someone is not familiar)

Please see my above post in regards to this. It should be again noted, however, that Eliphas Levi's famous drawing "Baphomet" is not "Satan".

4. Why isn't Jesus allowed to be mentioned within the lodges?

Freemasonry is a non-sectarian fraternal order. It is not a church or other Christian organization. It is not forbidden to say the name "Jesus", but Lodges are not houses of worship, nor are they sectarian religious clubs or places to proselytize.

5. I am a woman, so do I have to marry a Mason to belong to the Eastern Stars?

Most Grand Chapters require female initiates to be related in some way to a Master Mason (although not all). Pretty much everybody is related to a Mason somehow.

6. Are the Eastern Stars representative of the sun?

The Order of the Eastern Star is not Freemasonry, is is a bit more sectarian, with a Christian bias. The Eastern Star represents the Star of Bethlehem, recalling the words of the Magi, "We have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him".

7. All of you seem to want to become enlightened, but why don't you consider yourselves to be illuminated?

Illumination is an ongoing and continuous process.

8. Why does the Denver Airport have a capstone with the Masonic symbols?

To my knowledge, the symbols there are not exclusively "Masonic".

9. Was Captain Morgan murdered by Masons for trying to publish a Masonic Lodge handbook?

He did not try to publish a Masonic handbook. He had pretended to be a Mason, apparently for the purpose of receiving a great deal of money through Masonic charities. After it was discovered that he wasn't really a Mason, he attempted to blackmail the local Lodges with the threat of publishing their secret ceremonies unless they continued to funnel money to him. At that point, Morgan disappeared.

His exact fate is unknown, but many believed he was murdered by local Masons. This is possible, as emotions ran high among those who had helped him, and then were betrayed by him. This obviously doesn't excuse murder, if that's what really happened. But murder certainly isn't approved by Freemasonry, and if he really did get whacked, it was the work of a small group whom he had personally betrayed, not the work of the Masonic fraternity per se.

10. If there is a revolution in the US, would you be on the government's side or that of the people?

It would depend on what you mean by "the government" and "the people". Stalin and Mao also claimed to be leading revoultions for "the people". Our government is of a representative characteristic, with the offices being filled by popular election. The left wing hated Bush, for example, and the right wing hates Obama. But both were elected (well, at least Bush was really elected to a second term). Therefore, they held and hold lawful authority, and revolution would be unlawful.

If someone seized power by force, such a thing would be illegal, and opposed to our values.

Originally posted by KyleOrtonArmy
But it sure seems like many police are masons, judges are masons and politicians are masons. Surely you help yourself to advantages?

Actually, from the demographics of my own lodge, it would seem many firemen and plumbers are Masons. Luckily, I haven't had to take advantage of either.

But your inference is inherently flawed. Part of our oath is to be peaceable and law abiding citizens. Another is to treat all others fairly, honestly and equally. Any Mason seen to try to use his membership to circumvent the law would at the least receive a reprimand, and more likely be kicked out of the fraternity. So how is that an advantage?

[edit on 4/12/2010 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by Saurus
Perhaps I should add something here regarding the statue...

The sword pointing to a heart was once part of the ritual of the third degree, but has not been used for many years.

You are obviously correct regarding the ritual. I could not find any sources that showed that Greenough was a Mason so I think it is safe to assume this was not the intended inference of the statue. Greenough wanted this to be a depection of Cincinnatus returning his sword. The safest way to do this? With the hilt turned outward.

reply to post by JoshNorton


yes and also a lot of retired people as well...i have yet to get out of a ticket or anything that involved another Freemason...

Originally posted by bushidomason


yes and also a lot of retired people as well...i have yet to get out of a ticket or anything that involved another Freemason...

I personally know a lot of Masons, not just in my own jurisdiction, but internationally. Out of them all, I know one retired judge, 1 active state judge, and 7 or 8 cops. Some non-Masons seem to think that Masonry is full of cops and judges. I don't know the reason why they think that, as it's never really been the case.

reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy


I have heard that this is common in the UK but not here in the US.

It would be reprehensible for a mason to use a position of authority to gain favor. We have only one police officer in my lodge and he just became one a couple of months ago.

I have heard that having a masonic emblem on your car is a disadvantage if you are pulled over by a cop that is a mason. We are expected to uphold the laws of our country.

It is pretty common to help brothers find work or employment, but this is common among other fraternities as well.

Originally posted by emsed1
reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy

 

I have heard that this is common in the UK but not here in the US.

Actually, it's not common in the UK either. For a while the UK was making Masonic judges register their membership, in a blind attempt to stem perceived corruption. But after a few years of investigation, they never found evidence that said corruption had ever taken place, so they dropped the law.

I've always interpreted Masons/FreeMasons literally.

Whereas, one who dictates freely in nuance the past.

I've seen so many distanced tell me of my past, via 3rd person it's not even really that funny, anymore.

They're dwellers. Their tendency is one of Holy/Holely. Where, they sense conflict, and due to fear, encouragement, instigation: state, open-air, this will be 'covered-up'. For, the promotion of acts is the true tenure of the Power Seeker.

However, as a free-style advocate of Quick Justice, I see little more behavior from them than that a wind driven flag.

Since, my developed personna is one of a Physical Nature, and has been from early childhood development; I will choose whom I wish to 'deal' with, and will most certainly face some little quibble of a Trajedy weeks/months later, when the dust settles...

Yes, the comments at me are vague by intention, I AM a StreetFighter, com_out



[edit on 4/15/2010 by passingthought]

reply to post by passingthought


Um, what?

That made no sense.

The word "Freemason" means we are speculative (and free) and are not literally operative stonemasons.

The "Free" part goes back to the admittedly idiotic time in history when only "free men" were allowed to join.

In modern times it alludes to the first question a candidate is asked, "Is this of your own free will and accord?" meaning no man can be coerced into joining.

reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy

If masonry is as innocent as philanthropy and fundraisers why pull a veil over your organization in the first place?

That has more to do with history actually..

And if your rituals are as benign as you would have us (non masons) believe why have them behind closed doors and be sworn to uphold their secrecy in the first place?

Many, many organizations have ceremonies behind closed doors.. why should Masonry be singled out? Besides, it's a Fraternity.. I've never heard of a Fraternity having their ceremonies public?

What are you afraid of, and what do you have to hide? If you're just a brotherhood or worldwide fraternity rooted in stone, why not reveal yourselves?

We do.. in neon signs, phone books, public displays, walking in parades, sponsoring huge hospitals etc...

And what's with all the creepy ceremony?

It's not creepy.. it's just that the world is so spiritual voided that they don't understand the powers of ritual.

And finally, why did JFK dislike you so much?

He was talking about Communism. And he wasn't a saint either.. his family were illegal bootleggers, he had deep connections with the Mafia, was a man whore who cheated on his wife, and a poor tactician (ie, bay of pigs).. All in all, had he not been killed, he would have been considered a failed President. So why would I care what he thought of us if he really didn't like us?

Was J edgar hoover a mason?

Did the masons play any part in the civil rights movement?

reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy

Was J edgar hoover a mason?

I believe he was. Might explain why he was so weird.

Did the masons play any part in the civil rights movement?

Not as an organization, I don't believe so. Freemasonry was segregated in the US, I believe it took a while especially in the South to ease up on the intolerance.