Why So Secretive?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Thank you. I dont remember what the question was that I was asking him at the time, I was just taken back by that answer and qoute that he gave me. After he said that I thought that Masons must be a secret club.
I do have many questions. Thank you for giving me the opportunity for me to ask. Perhaps I am stepping out of bounds, but I was always curious if the G meant geometery? But if that is pushing my luck, I have also wondered why checkered floors? I have heard that that was a Masonic decor?

Secrecy itself is attractive and keeps people interested in climbing ladders and pereptuating various organizations. People keep watching a TV series because they want to know what happens at the end. People keep climbing initiatory ladders in different "secret societies" for the same reason (among other reasons, of course). Esotericism in and of itself is alluring...just look at your own interest in the topic.

Secretive?

Hardly... The only thing the Freemasons here won't divulge are the Modes of Recognition, and those are readily available on the internet on countless websites (which will do you no good, because without the experience of being in Lodge will not get you past anyone). The contents of the Secret Societies Forum here at ATS contains countless examples of just how secretive the Freemasons here aren't. In fact, it could be argued that Freemasonry isn't even a valid topic for the Secret Societies Forum... But that's another discussion... Here's an example of just how secretive I and some of the Brethren here are:

A rather personal discussion regarding the inevitable...

I would go so far to say that more is known about the Freemason posters here than the non-Mason.

No one ever quizzes or asks anything of the profane... And despite the willingness of the Brethren to reveal rather than conceal, it invariably reverts to the assertion that the Freemasons are hiding something...



Master Mason Monkeys, not just for shouting from the highest mountain anymore...

Hello. I have a few questions & your honesty & forthright answers will be appreciated. Please no talking in circles or answering questions with a question.

1. Why don't your lodges have any windows?
2. What types of decorations & wall ornamentations do the lodges have?
3. Why is George Washington's Statue in the same pose & garb as the way Satan is famously illustrated? (I will post photos of what I mean if someone is not familiar)
4. Why isn't Jesus allowed to be mentioned within the lodges?
5. I am a woman, so do I have to marry a Mason to belong to the Eastern Stars?
6. Are the Eastern Stars representative of the sun?
7. All of you seem to want to become enlightened, but why don't you consider yourselves to be illuminated?
8. Why does the Denver Airport have a capstone with the Masonic symbols?
9. Was Captain Morgan murdered by Masons for trying to publish a Masonic Lodge handbook?
10. If there is a revolution in the US, would you be on the government's side or that of the people?

That's all for now. I look forward to your replies.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Afterthought]

Originally posted by Afterthought
1. Why don't your lodges have any windows?

Why don't bathrooms have windows?
All joking aside; one could safely assume it is to keep those who aren't privy to the workings of the Lodge from "spying."

Originally posted by Afterthought
2. What types of decorations & wall ornamentations do the lodges have?

We have our By-Laws(draped with a black cloth due to the recent passing of a Charter Member) on the Wall and a picture of George Washington.

Originally posted by Afterthought
3. Why is George Washington's Statue in the same pose & garb as the way Satan is famously illustrated? (I will post photos of what I mean if someone is not familiar)

That's a good question. One I am unable to answer. I don't think it necessarily has the correlation you are trying to draw however.

Originally posted by Afterthought
4. Why isn't Jesus allowed to be mentioned within the lodges?

I must say that I myself and other Brothers have mentioned his name in Lodge so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally posted by Afterthought
5. I am a woman, so do I have to marry a Mason to belong to the Eastern Stars?

Either that or have another relative who is already a Mason.

Originally posted by Afterthought
6. Are the Eastern Stars representative of the sun?

I am a Mason and don't have any tie to a female relative or spouse who is one so I can't answer that one.

Originally posted by Afterthought
7. All of you seem to want to become enlightened, but why don't you consider yourselves to be illuminated?

I feel as though you are trying to assert that we have some tie to the Illuminatis. Also, that's very much a semantic arguement as they both have the same meaning.

Originally posted by Afterthought
8. Why does the Denver Airport have a capstone with the Masonic symbols?

The building was most likely dedicated with a Masonic ceremony; very commonplace in fact.

Originally posted by Afterthought
9. Was Captain Morgan murdered by Masons for trying to publish a Masonic Lodge handbook?

You'd have to ask Captain Morgan...
Seriously though; I know you speak of the Morgan affair, and since I wasn't involved and no one currently living was,(assuming that there even was some sort of plot) it is impossible to accurately answer your query.

Originally posted by Afterthought
10. If there is a revolution in the US, would you be on the government's side or that of the people?

I personally would be on the side of the People, and I can also assure you that every Brother who attends my Lodge feels the same way.


[edit on 11-4-2010 by Namaste]

Originally posted by illusioned2
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Thank you. I dont remember what the question was that I was asking him at the time, I was just taken back by that answer and qoute that he gave me. After he said that I thought that Masons must be a secret club.
I do have many questions. Thank you for giving me the opportunity for me to ask. Perhaps I am stepping out of bounds, but I was always curious if the G meant geometery?

I hope you don't mind me stepping in and answering this as well. The G stands for Geometry and for God. It is explained in the lecture given to a newly passed Fellowcraft. This link will give you a bit more insight. While it is not exactly the same lecture we give in my jurisdiction, it contains the same meaning.

But if that is pushing my luck, I have also wondered why checkered floors? I have heard that that was a Masonic decor?

the checkered floors are part of the furniture of a lodge. they are explained as representing life, filled with good and evil. This link may give you more insight into that.

Please don't hesitate to ask any question at all. there are a few we can't answer, but only a few.

reply to post by Afterthought


Posts are coming in way too fast to follow

nvm

[edit on 11-4-2010 by KyleOrtonArmy]

reply to post by Namaste


Thank you for your answers. I will find the pictures of the George Washington statue & the illustration of Satan for your comparison. Just give me a moment or two to find & post.

I am happy to hear that you & your brothers would be on the side of the people.

Also, I hope you folks aren't exposing your genitalia as that is the reason for no windows in bathrooms. If that is the case, I would be very worried.

Regarding my question about Jesus, I had read an account where a former Mason was discussing his experiences within a lodge. He was asked to say the prayer & mentioned Jesus. Afterwards, a head Mason approached him & asked him to refrain from speaking about Jesus since he might offend other lodge members. He could speak of God, but not Jesus.

Thank you again for your straight forward answers. I will post the photos soon.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Hello. I have a few questions & your honesty & forthright answers will be appreciated. Please no talking in circles or answering questions with a question.

1. Why don't your lodges have any windows?

to keep people from seeing inside.

2. What types of decorations & wall ornamentations do the lodges have?

In our lodge we have our charter, the letter G (a stained glass ornament with a light in it) and the star from the eastern star. (they use our lodge as well.)

3. Why is George Washington's Statue in the same pose & garb as the way Satan is famously illustrated? (I will post photos of what I mean if someone is not familiar)

He has a masonic apron on and a trowel in his hand. the only thing I might attribute to evil, is the fact that he isn't smiling much, if at all.

4. Why isn't Jesus allowed to be mentioned within the lodges?

The idea is that since masonry doesn't discriminate between other religions, it might make people who were Muslim, or Buddhist, feel uncomfortable. In my lodge, we are all Christian, so in the fellowship hall, Jesus is A-ok.

5. I am a woman, so do I have to marry a Mason to belong to the Eastern Stars?

That, or have a family member who is or was a mason.

6. Are the Eastern Stars representative of the sun?

The Easter Star revolves around Jesus Christ. I am not a member, so I can't give you the exact meaning, but My Mother-in-law and father-in-law are both members.

7. All of you seem to want to become enlightened, but why don't you consider yourselves to be illuminated?

Being humble, it's easy to see that none of us really know anything, and are always searching for more knowledge. that part is universal.

8. Why does the Denver Airport have a capstone with the Masonic symbols?

there must have been a detication ceremony for that area of the airport. I have seen pictures of that and it looked cool. I have never been to the airport when AI wasn't running to catch a flight, so I never got a chance to look at the art work, but I hope to one day. I can't say for sure if any of it is masonic. ( nobody told us the secret word to get into the cool underground part if thats what you are asking)

9. Was Captain Morgan murdered by Masons for trying to publish a Masonic Lodge handbook?
That is the way the story goes, I have heard that the body recovered wasn't even his. And that he was trying to make his book sales boom. Having not been there, I will say that that is just rumor, and it is very possible that some masons decided to give a little country justice. but we don't operate that way. If we had to kill everyone who spilled our secrets, We would have to hire Blackwater mercs to help with the overload. Just not our style.

10. If there is a revolution in the US, would you be on the government's side or that of the people?

I would like to think that most if not all would be on the side of less government. But masons are individuals, and no where are we taught what to believe or which political party to affiliate with.

That's all for now. I look forward to your replies.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Afterthought]

thanks for asking.

reply to post by network dude


Thank you for the answers and the links, I will check them out! That was interesting about the floor representing good and evil. I never would have guessed that one-it does make sense! Thank you for being so open!

I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble posting the photos. If you look up the statue of Washington in DC, then google images of Baphomet, you will see what I mean by the same pose.

reply to post by network dude


I appreciate your answering of my questions as well.

Thank you

reply to post by Afterthought


I have seen the photo. It is unnecessary to post it. I still stand by my original comment on the parallel. I think you are just clutching at straws.

reply to post by Namaste


It's not I who is clutching at straws. It's just what others have paralleled. I guess I would have to ask the Italian sculptor or whoever commissioned him.

reply to post by Afterthought


If this is the statue you are refering to then it is a depiction of George Washington as a 'modern day Cincinnatus' by Horatio Greenough and resides at the Smithsonian. Cincinnatus was the Roman general who was elected dictator and then, after defeating the threat to the Republic, stepped down after returning his sword for his plough. The statue is a stylized version of this as Washington is symbolically returning his sword to the Congress. Many in Congress wanted him to become king but he declined by saying, "I did not fight George III to become George I."

For what it is worth it was intended to be a copy of the statue of Zeus by Phidias for the Temple of Zeus at Olympia, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.










[edit on 11-4-2010 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by KyleOrtonArmy

Its not secretive as much of our stuff is plastered on the net, but we are a private club. Our work is our own and for those who are members. There are many groups that are private as we are; business meetings for example.

We are not afraid of anything, we just ask for loyalty (fidelity) to keep that which has been entrusted to our care. Plus our Oaths and ceremonies pertain to us and us alone, they affect no one on the outside. Its not like we're hidden or anything, our buildings and symbols are pretty obvious.

There are no creepy ceremonies in Freemasonry.

reply to post by Equinox99

Why? Freemasonry is something in their private life, its no one else's business. Civil rights and all.

reply to post by Max_TO

Proficiency in that degree is the only way to progress.

reply to post by Afterthought

1. Some lodges do have windows, it just depends on the real estate the Lodge is using. Some of the older buildings (especially out in the Western US) have windows.

2. This depends on the Lodge, Grand Lodge, and Board of Directors (if there is one for the building). Buildings and room design vary from Lodge to Lodge.

3. I am not familiar at all with this. If it is the picture that Augustus posted, then I will have to go with his reply.

4. No one religion is held above another as we allow men of all faiths to join. This is why we use generic terms. Along with religion, partisan politics is not allowed in the Lodge (again as we come from all different beliefs). Now, in the York Rite, the Commandery requires Christian faith and thus we pray to Christ

5. To join the Eastern Star you must have a direct link to a Mason: Sister, Mother, Daughter, Granddaughter, and/or Wife/Widow. I think its a little lax, meaning that if you have an uncle or cousin. I'm not sure, but you could contact the local chapter and ask.

6. No, the Eastern Star does not represent the Sun.

7. I've never really thought of that personally.

8. The Masons often do building dedications and that airport was just one of them. In Idaho we have done dedications for several DL Evans banks and various buildings around the State.

9. There is a lot of mystery with the Morgan Affair. The Grand Lodge condemned any action that may have been taken by a Brother, and if it was indeed Masons they were rogue and acted on their own accord.

10. That is up to the individual Brother to go with his beliefs. We are charged to be good citizens and not subversive towards the government.

[edit on 11-4-2010 by KSigMason]

Originally posted by illusioned2
Perhaps I am stepping out of bounds, but I was always curious if the G meant geometery?

I have always considered the G to stand for Geometry. Others say it stands for "God" as well, but God only starts with a G in english, so that's a little anglo-centric. (Most other languages it starts with a D... deus, dei, etc...)

That said, it's my impression that the G added to the square and compasses is most prominent in American usage, and you won't see it very often in Europe and elsewhere.

Personally, I prefer the square & compasses without, and the ring I wear has the all seeing eye in the middle instead of a G, but that's just my taste.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Hardly... The only thing the Freemasons here won't divulge are the Modes of Recognition, and those are readily available on the internet on countless websites (which will do you no good, because without the experience of being in Lodge a current dues card you will not get past anyone).

Fixed that for you.

[edit on 4/12/2010 by JoshNorton]

Originally posted by network dude

4. Why isn't Jesus allowed to be mentioned within the lodges?

The idea is that since masonry doesn't discriminate between other religions, it might make people who were Muslim, or Buddhist, feel uncomfortable. In my lodge, we are all Christian, so in the fellowship hall, Jesus is A-ok.

And in my lodge, it would be considered downright rude for our chaplain to mention Jesus. About 1/3 of our members are Jewish; we have a few islamic members; a number of deists, gnostics, and probably a pagan or two of assorted flavors. We can all get together and invoke God's blessing over our gathering, and ask for His aid in the assistance of a sick brother or family member thereof, but pinpointing specific religions over any other would be a divisive act and would not promote peace & harmony which is the strength of the lodge.

Originally posted by loveguy
In your experience, have you ever known of someone who was found to be a liar in order to become a Mason member, and was found-out later? If yes, what became of him?

Yes,
he was black-balled by unanimous ballot
and his report sent to the Grand Lodge

Originally posted by loveguy
And how does the lodge protect against swearing-in "frauds?"

Normally, the investigating committees do a superb job
before recommending a candidate. But if there is a doubt,
then it is investigated further.

Originally posted by loveguy
Could it be possible for the upper-echelons of free masonry to be frauds?

Yes it is but highly improbable
as others would certainly find them out