Revelation; Silence in heaven

reply to post by iamnot

I agree with Disraeli.. Satan was cast out of heaven and did not rule it.. But he is known also as the prince and power of the air which pertains to the heavenlies in the temporal realm... The electromagnetic spectrum which has been utilized to spread deciet and division via mass media in all forms... Funny how our technology has been almost guided by that huh?...

reply to post by DISRAELI

Yes they were given authority by the devil.. The living creatures said "come see" so was shown the events.. That authority was therefore from satan as a desparate attempt to keep hold of his kingdom and deny God His and His people.. An act of spite and desparation... After all, we are his food source.. God cursed satan to eat dust which is what corrupted dead flesh becomes, he seeks to corrupt us and devour us...

Yeshua, when tempted in the wilderness by satan was offered all the kingdoms of the world if He would bow down and worship satan.. This also shows that satan had the authority to do so until "the appointed time" when the deed is up and God redeems His kingdom.


[edit on 18-8-2010 by Yissachar1]

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Yes they were given authority by the devil.. The living creatures said "come see" so was shown the events..

Ah. It depends partly on the text and translation. I think you're quoting the AV. Modern translations tend to use a text which gives "Come!" on its own as the instruction from the beast, and scholars then take it as an instruction to the horseman himself. I follow that translation.
Thus "I heard the living creature say... "Come!". And I saw, and behold..." is the RSV version.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by St Udio

 

Beast rules for "one hour" in another version.

It seems to me that everybody makes Revelation interpretation much more complicated than it needs to be.

Also there must surely be some reason why "half-an-hour" is named with such peculiar precision, and taking it as half of the "one-hour" seems to me to be a very rational answer.

Beast rules for one hour???

in my reading it paraphrases as; the 10 kings rule for one hour along with the beast

that is a whole lot different than the beast ruling for 1/2 the 70th week(prophecied as 3 1/2 years)

the 'hour' and the 'week' are not synomonious (equal) either in time lines or in metaphorical terms... or in the prophetic timeline for the different characters in the vision.



then; "the silence in heaven for 1/2 hour" is so arbitrary its not worth tackling....
i take your position in this instance, the simplicity model in explaination--
IOW the 1/2 hr of silence means only a short time to G0d in heaven as its not relevant to humans to understand heavenly time zones or durations...we only need to know that the almighty addresses the situation promptly...in what would be a long torturious decision & planning session for mortals...


i take it your trying to be a good luke-warm evangelist with middl;e of the road commentary & viewpoints.... marketable if nothing else

reply to post by DISRAELI

No, KJV... And no it doesnt.. It offers no authority except for John to view the unfolding events..

Your pride is begining to show.. I for one was not taught by scholars but by the Holy Spirit... You are wrong on this but right on many other things, arguing over sermantics just shows arrogance..
[edit on 18-8-2010 by Yissachar1]

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Yissachar1]

Originally posted by St Udio
i take it your trying to be a good luke-warm evangelist with middl;e of the road commentary & viewpoints.... marketable if nothing else

Marketable? You've got to be kidding! As far as I can tell, the marketable commentaries are the ones which take literally everything I refuse to take literally- the Rapture, the "seven years", the number 666 tattooed on the forehead, the lot. All the big bucks are surely in "Rapture in Dec. 2012" or whatever. I'm sure there's no market for the low-key approach I'm adopting. I'm just ploughing my own furrow in the belief that I'm closer to the intended meaning.

I think my take on the time periods will get a thread of its own at some stage.

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Your pride is begining to show.. I for one was not taught by scholars but by the Holy Spirit... You are wrong on this but right on many other things, arguing over sermantics just shows arrogance..

No, trying to get the meaning right just shows trying to get the meaning right. If we're talking about what God says, it's important to get a true understanding of what he means. I believe the Holy Spirit can work through faithful scholarship too.
Incidentally, the AV (Authorised Version) is the name we Englishmen use for the KJV.

Great thread. Very thought provoking. Revelation is a big part of the mystery of Christ and His return. In order to make sense of it, I believe there must be a heavy reliance on Isaiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel.

The old joke I've heard about Revelation 8:1 is that it proves the men of the church will be taken half an hour before the women in the rapture; "and there was silence in heaven for half an hour".

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
In order to make sense of it, I believe there must be a heavy reliance on Isaiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel.

Yes, indeed, and Zechariah too.
I haven't heard that joke before. I shall be very careful about where I repeat it.



[edit on 18-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

Yes, you should. It is quite misogynistic. I apologize to anyone here I've offended.

I agree that Zechariah must be included as an end times prophet.

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Icarus Rising]

reply to post by DISRAELI

I'm sure there's no market for the low-key approach I'm adopting.



I'm just ploughing my own furrow in the belief that I'm closer to the intended meaning.

this too is extremely subjective...

i do feel that one might be anticipating the blow-back of all these extreme views that have been foisted on the religious community...
'Left Behind' etc


and a toned down, reasonable stance might be the prevailing thought by all those Christians exhausted by the 'Power' mega-churches, the cults like the 'Dominionists'. pre-tribbers.... and all the other sects/ school of thought etc.


i really do understand that you are writing for yourself mostly, as in a open-page journal, accessible to the public, in this case by ATS.


well done...
i just think your 'simplicity' approach is as extreme as the Kabbalist mystical meanings are esorteric

reply to post by Yissachar1


Yes, ether, the fifth element.

I was implying however that he once controlled heaven within, through sin of course.

reply to post by iamnot


The fifth element will not save you, what will is Yeshua, and the grace of true knowledge from His Tamuldim., Students of instruction who are taught by God and not men who deny His power to teach directly.. For proof? I did not speak a word of Hebrew/Aramaic until God taught me.. Not men.

Yeshua's interpretation of scripture put Him on the cross.,

Dont be afraid of going against popular opinion...

The "rapture" does not happen untill the final trumpet.. Yeshua said so in matthew 24... The "elect" go through the tribulation to be refined from the harlot church (rome) who begat harlot daughters (protestantism, evangelical, charasmatic) who love money instead of peaople.,.

oh dear you got me all wrong

i agree with you, let's just leave it at that.

Originally posted by Yissachar1

Students of instruction who are taught by God and not men who deny His power to teach directly.. For proof? I did not speak a word of Hebrew/Aramaic until God taught me.. Not men.

Are you saying you have experienced xenoglossy?

S&F op ...IMO ...could the silence in heaven speak of a time in eternity past when the God of glory became incarnate in the flesh . Lots of good contributions to this topic ..

reply to post by DISRAELI
Disraeli,

The book that was sealed is the Lamb's book of life slain from the foundation of the world. Now I must point out the seventh seal is not taken off yet.

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Above is when the seventh seal is taken off and this is the great Judgement scene.

Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The question is, is your name witten there on the page white and fair.

I will make one more comment here and that is, notice the fourth seal is the last invitation to "come and see". Why? Only one reason is apparent, after that it is too late to "come and see".

The four sore judgements of God are introduced.

Re 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
Re 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. ( compare next verse, a little different way of expressing it )

Eze 14:21 For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

This should add some more to think about.

We must be careful to not run ahead of His Prophecy, each is revealed in it's time and is made clear when it is time.

Truthiron

Originally posted by truthiron
The book that was sealed is the Lamb's book of life slain from the foundation of the world. Now I must point out the seventh seal is not taken off yet.

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;..
Above is when the seventh seal is taken off and this is the great Judgement scene.

This great judgement scene and the moment when the seventh seal is taken off are twelve chapters apart. How can they be the same thing?
The meaning of the opening of the scroll is very clear from ch6, as I was explaining in"The Lamb and the scroll".
A seal is taken off, something happens.
Another seal is taken off, something else happens.
A third seal is taken off, a third event happens.
Each seal, as it is removed, "releases" a new event into the world.
From which it becomes clear that the scroll actually contains the events themselves. It contains the entire history of Revelation from ch6 v1.
But I agree that the seventh seal has not been opened.
The world has not seen the Four Horsemen yet, which means that even the first four seals have not been opened.

reply to post by DISRAELI
Disraeli,

You missed the fact that it is the Lambs book of life that is sealed with seven seals. After the sixth seal it is done on this earth is why you must search on to find when the book is finally opened.

Re 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Some want to say it is the book the recording angels are writting, well now how do you write in a book that is sealed shut. It has to be the Lambs book of life slain from the foundation of the world.

Re 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. ( the following verse should cinch it )

Re 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

It is His book, He wrote it and He is the one who was SLAIN. You bet He is found Worthy.

That book is a perfect prophecy and will be revealed as so in Heaven when it is opened and the names of all of mankind are in it and the names of those lost are bloted out.
Ps 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

This is perfect foreknowledge and yet no predestination. We each have had perfect freedom to choose our own way, no coercion. AWE, SILENCE, I think so.
Re 8:1 ¶ And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

I may catch another point of your reply later, need to go now.

Truthiron

Originally posted by truthiron
You missed the fact that it is the Lambs book of life that is sealed with seven seals. After the sixth seal it is done on this earth is why you must search on to find when the book is finally opened.

No, you are missing the fact that the sealed scroll is being opened in ch6, stage by stage as the seals are broken. I was setting out the process in "The lamb and the scroll", qv.
You need to understand how the seals are placed. They are placed in such a way that each seal blocks off access to one portion of the scroll, one seventh.
Briefly; the breaking of the first seal gives access to the first section of the scroll, that portion of the scroll is then opened, and the first event is "released". Then the second seal is opened, which gives access to the second segment of the scroll, which is then opened. and so on.
There is no statement in the text that the "book of life" mentioned at the end of the book is the sealed scroll. Rather, the contents of the sealed scroll are the events of ch6. Not the description of the events, but the events themselves.