Revelation; Silence in heaven

reply to post by BobAthome


Oh, yes, now I've got it. It still took me five minutes, though.
Sorry, I thought you were talking to me at the time, and that's what made it puzzling.

reply to post by St Udio


I've only just seen the expanded version of your response.

Yes, this is definitely something for careful reflection rather than instant reaction.

I always thought of that part about the silence was because of how foul and harsh the situation was getting on earth and it was ugly to look upon, and so the silence. But the OP shows much much more that I didn't think about before. Good post!

Originally posted by CSquared288
Hahah so god's giving us the one-two punch? That's definitely an interesting observation.

Yup. Something like that. Though when the theory has been developed a little more, they will begin to look like counter-punches.
I'm planning a thread on the reason for the 4 Horsemen, which will, hopefully, explain what I mean.

Originally posted by pasttheclouds
I would put it different.
and alchemist, yes, time to prepare = reflect.

God always brings peace by hope first.

Hope comes up,
then a hurricane comes up
Freedom gets established.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Well, that's not exactly what I'm trying to describe.
But maybe it's not all that far away.

You could see the destructive period following this time of "silence" as being something like a hurricane, sweeping away the obstacle to true peace. Maybe that's not a bad summary of the book as a whole.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by DISRAELI]

yeah you are right, i didnt answer your question, i switched to something else.


[edit on 10-4-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Oh no, of course not everybody is awakened.

To be awakened, one has to first purify their body and heart (for example, take into consideration the advice to the 7 churches) and make the 4 beasts (the 4 self-destructive influences and carnal desires) bow to the Spirit [Rev 4:9] and then, the 7 seals can be opened (7 endocrine glands/chakras are opened - cleansed and united) and then the body is spiritualized. Then you move on to the rest of Revelation to spiritualize the mind, and then on to receiving the new body and mind, and etc.

So basically ur saying tht we are one wth th univ. as well as mother earth and as such given the right to rule over all of creation ?

I think the ten kings refer to the ten world nuclear powers. Seven countries definatley have nuclear weaopns: The United States, Russia, The United Kingdom, France, China, India, Pakistan, and North Korea. Two countries are suspected of having nuclear weapons: North Korea and Iran.

Isreal may or may not have nuclear weapons.

The one hour of silence is also the hour when these "kings shall have power". The hour during which the missles are flying. There is silence for half an hour as the nations prepare for the nuclear detonations. That's my take on it.

[edit on 4/10/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]

[edit on 4/10/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]

I think seven is the number to watch in all of this always. It's repetition
communicates. There was silence in heaven half an hour. Three and one half years of peace come first. Then the peace is interupted with three and a half years to go. One hour to God. Seven years to us. Always been my understanding.


[edit on 10-4-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
I think seven is the number to watch in all of this always. It's repetition
communicates. There was silence in heaven half an hour. Three and one half years of peace come first. Then the peace is interupted with three and a half years to go. One hour to God. Seven years to us. Always been my understanding.


[edit on 10-4-2010 by randyvs]

Yes, I concur with you one hundred per cent in making that identification.

I'm laying out my view of the book one piece at a time, so I'm deferring that connection until later.

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

The one hour of silence is also the hour when these "kings shall have power". The hour during which the missles are flying. There is silence for half an hour as the nations prepare for the nuclear detonations. That's my take on it.

So the missiles are flying during the whole period when the kings are reigning?
I'm not finding it easy to imagine this scenario.

Originally posted by St Udio

ergo, the other 'kings' will share power with the Beast-man for 5 months before the (Beast from the Sea=A.C. ) takes over the Empire


also, in Rev 18:17, it takes (1 hour) for the crushed people of the global community to utterly destroy Babylon, the economic/military Giant...
that 'hour' would entail the same 5 months it took for the AC to share power with the 7 headed Empire.

Right, St Udio, I promised to put some serious reflection into your contribution.

My first task was to try to lay out your "timetable" and mine side by side, in the hope of finding areas of compatibility. The irenic approach.

On the "silence" itself, you consider this to be 75 days, and I'm content to leave it undetermined. No direct incompatibility there. You make no comment on my remarks about the period before the silence, so we're still compatible so far.

Things get interesting in the period after the silence.
In my own scheme, this is just the remainder of the period of the Beast- implicitly, the second "half-hour". You may see in a post above that I concur with Randyus in identifying these as two halves of the seven years. Or, in my case, "seven" years, but that's another story.

If I understand you correctly, you see the 75 days as immediately preceding the second 1260 day period of the Beast, in which case- I think- we're still fairly compatible. And am I right in thinking that your 5 month period (or is it three five-month periods) are to be included in that 1260 days?

My only comment is that traditional focussing on exact time periods (even if there's no attempt to relate them to dates) seems to make Revelation interpretation very elaborate- in my opinion, over-elaborate. My approach aims to simplify, simplify.

I'll be putting forward my own view of the Beast at a later date, after debating a number of other passages. I just want to make sure I'm understanding your presentation properly.

In the two passages quoted above (sorry, I meant to start typing above them), the terminology seems a little confused, but I think that's probably because you were typing quickly. You distinguish between a 5-month Beast and one taking over later. In the first paragraph, you call the later one the Beast-from-the-sea (but in ch13 the sea-Beast seems to come first). The term AC is applied to the later one in the first paragraph, and to the earlier, 5-month power-sharing, one in the second paragraph. But these are all matters of labelling, and could be sorted out with more leisure.

The only real puzzle to me is what you say about Babylon. You seem to distinguish between Babylon and the Beast, saying that Babylon is actually destroyed by the forerunners of the Beast. This strikes me as unusual, or maybe I'm just out of touch. I'm perfectly content with identifying the two, and identifying the various descriptions of their destruction.

I'm expecting to produce more threads in this series.
I hope your critical insights will be brought to bear on some of them.

Postscript, because I forgot to notice another area of agreement. Yes, the trumpets and vials in real time progression, no POOF, as you say.I can find hints about environmental degradation in these passages, the most obvious example being the two versions of the state of the sea - "Like the blood of a dead man!".

[edit on 11-4-2010 by DISRAELI]

You may well have hit on something that I had not noticed. I looked up the word "half an hour" in Chapter 8 and yes, it does refer to the time period of one half 'hour'("hemiorion"). This word is taken from "hemisu", meaning one-half and from hora", meaning possibly an hour. But "hora"also means any definite time frame, including a season, a day,or a twelfth of a day (hour as we know it). So the time frame is subjective at best.

Of course, the same word "hora" is translated as one hour in Chapter 17 as you mention, so your proposition would appear to still hold. The silence will be for one half of that time period where the ten kings receive their power with the beast. This also ties into the teaching of the tribulation, where the beast is to reign for 7 years before the return of Jesus, and the first half of that reign (3 1/2 years) will be peaceful.

Some time back I penned a thread titled Behold, the black horse of Revelation!, wherein I tried to identify the four horsemen of Revelation. My conclusion at that time was that each of these riders have in some way controlled the land of Israel since the time of John the Revelator. The first white horse was Napoleon leading France, the second red horse was Hitler's Germany, and the black horse was the United States (runaway capitalism leading to economic slavery, basically). I also identified my belief that the green (pale) horse was China, but I may have been mistaken. Further research into this has made me wonder if this fourth horse would not be Persia. I am working on a thread for this, but you'll have to be patient with me on that; I have to rethink many things I thought I knew about Revelation.

In any case, regardless of the identity of the fourth horse and rider, there will be one more global conqueror before this silent period. That places the Tribulation (if that is indeed what this is referring to) as some point in the near future, after the fourth horse, could that mean that the coming World War III will see an end that also introduces the beast (Anti-Christ) and marks the beginning of the Tribulation? Perhaps; I need to study this some more.

Thank you for a very inspirational thread!

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Thank you for your thoughtful response. In fact, all the responses in this debate have been very thoughtful and constructive. I'm very grateful to everyone who's been participating.

I'm expecting my next step to be a couple of threads on the 4 Horsemen.
I have my own theory, which sees them as coming together, or at least in very quick succession.
Nevertheless, I shall certainly make a point of viewing the thread in your link.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

The one hour of silence is also the hour when these "kings shall have power". The hour during which the missles are flying. There is silence for half an hour as the nations prepare for the nuclear detonations. That's my take on it.

So the missiles are flying during the whole period when the kings are reigning?
I'm not finding it easy to imagine this scenario.

If the whole period of the kings' reign is one hour. I suppose a nuclear war would take about only an hour. How long does it take to launch, and for missles to reach their targets? Like I said, this is just my take on it. A tentative take. My interpretations always change anyway...

[edit on 4/11/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]

[edit on 4/11/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are

The one hour of silence is also the hour when these "kings shall have power". The hour during which the missles are flying. There is silence for half an hour as the nations prepare for the nuclear detonations. That's my take on it.

So the missiles are flying during the whole period when the kings are reigning?
I'm not finding it easy to imagine this scenario.

If the whole period of the kings' reign is one hour. I suppose a nuclear war would take about only an hour. How long does it take to launch, and for missles to reach their targets? Like I said, this is just my take on it. A tentative take. My interpretations always change anyway...

[edit on 4/11/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]

[edit on 4/11/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]

My idea isn't original or unique:
deoxy.org...
thefinalphaseforum.invisionzone.com...

[edit on 4/11/2010 by this_is_who_we_are]

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are


Thank you for pointing me towards those links.

I've glanced at them quickly, and I'll take the time to inspect them more carefully.

Half an hour or not, G-d is a mastermind, a great chess player and knows everything.

Is that when everybody gets a tea and potty break?

Half an hour? Is that when the earth trembles and the ground opens up to suck all those whose sword against Israel falls in?

It has been written in the good book that after the war finishes, 7 years it takes for Israel to bury the dead.

reply to post by alchemist2012


Have another look at the scripture

: But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day IS AS a thousand years, and a thousand years AS one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is long suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:8-9).

Leaving out one word of a sentence can change the whole meaning.
(IS AS)...
God does not have a time frame.
We, on the other hand do. We recognize time because our time line is limited. We have a beginning and we have an end.
So since he never had a beginning and will never hava an end, time as we know it isnt measured in minutes, hours days months etc.