A fundamentalist Christians view on Masonry

Since God is eternal and greater than can be contained within our universe, how can we expect that we can define God. Throughout time, and regardless of the culture, mankind has sought for an understanding of God, and how we can relate to God. Masonry, as with other forms of formalized human efforts, can but demonstrate the slightest characteristics of God. Is it wrong to seek?

Originally posted by Truth1000
Since God is eternal and greater than can be contained within our universe, how can we expect that we can define God.

Hello. Nice to meet you.
Great Question Truth1K., The answer lies in the simple but again, humbling fact that we do not define God for ourselves. It is He who reveals Himself to us.

Originally posted by Truth1000
Throughout time, and regardless of the culture, mankind has sought for an understanding of God, and how we can relate to God. Masonry, as with other forms of formalized human efforts, can but demonstrate the slightest characteristics of God. Is it wrong to seek?

Certainly not. Still, time waits for no man and if you wait too late before you get your business straight, you could regret it forever.
G7 Out

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist

 

this is just about to get juicy.

Gary, was Jesus the son of God?

Indubitably.

G7 Out.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
How can you expect a posture that, in essence, states self-contradicting statements to convince me of anything?

I am not attempting to convince you of anything.

Granted you stated that you do believe in some creator. But really- let’s check the logic: If I say to you, “Jesus is God”, then to you He’s God. Cool. But you will not say “Jesus is God”. But God is Allah, Yahweh and Jesus too. This whirling-Dervish of logic is the “light” Masons cherish?

You kind of answered your own question here. You are concerned about what I call God but I have no vested interest in what anyone else does, as long as they believe in God then to me it is the same.

Please. Yet again we are returning to one of the 2 or 3 patterns previously seen. Again, we spin right back to it. And again I say, There is, yea-- can only be, one God. And He is not-- , nay nor can be, ANYTHING ANYBODY makes up and decides to worship.

You can not, in my opinion, 'make up God'. There either is or is not a God and you either believe or do not believe in God.

Your good intentions only serve to pave the road to Hell.

I am not overly concerned as to me Hell is a make believe place.

God’s Word is the ultimate authority on God and it states that God is Jesus.

No, the New Testament states that Jesus is God and that was written by men, not God. Regardless, if you believe God is called Jesus I will never have an issue with that.

Now if you care to, we may explore why this is so fundamental to my knowledge of God.

You may elaborate if you care to do such.

Thus, your answer, as presented, is not a satisfactory response. Your logic is not only lacking but cyclical and your evidence is absent.
Please play again.

I am not offering evidence, but solely my own personal belief. It is more then satisfactory to me and I honestly do not give much concern if others think my belief in God is 'incorrect'.

Do you believe Jesus is God (but won’t tell anyone listening) or don’t you?

No. But once again I take no issue with anyone who does.

Oh, and what’s a Stompk?

An obnoxious, closed-minded bigot.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Oh, and what’s a Stompk?

An obnoxious, closed-minded bigot.

I never saw him as a bigot, he was just confused. And possibly a bit nuts. G7 doesn't seem to have any of his characteristics but did mention the cut both ways thing. If Stomp shows back up, he will out himself in 5-7 posts as he always does.

Originally posted by network dude
I never saw him as a bigot, he was just confused.

I saw some comments by him on this board, and others, that were rather bigoted in their overview but we split hairs.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist

 

this is just about to get juicy.

Gary, was Jesus the son of God?

Indubitably.

G7 Out.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

So you call Jesus God, but admit he was the son of God. do you find that confusing at all? He was crucified, died and was buried, on the 3rd day he rose from the dead, and is seated at the right hand of the father.

Is that a fair assessment of how you see Jesus?

reply to post by Gary7MediaTerrorist


Lets play devils advocate (pun intended..... I like lame jokes..)

Lets assume Freemasons do in fact worship the one who styles himself "Satan, destroyer of worlds, lord of the flies, Lucifer" (I know there are Good Omens fans out there) .. If we follow the Judea/Christian/Muslim belief that there is only ONE God.. then Satan is but a simple, probably misunderstood dynamic of that same God. IF there is a Hell.. and there IS a Satan.. then it has to be either God himself, or it has to be a creature/thing made by God for his own divine purposes. Now since it's seen that good and evil have some form of equilibrium, it would be logical to assume the Satan God and the God God is one in the same, equally, so worshiping either side of said God is worshiping the entire God at an equal level.

Right?

I mean, what sane being creates a creature, then creates it's own attributes, then says "don't pay attention to this" .. just to watch it's own created beings struggle under the weight of what the hells going on, all the while.. never getting the full picture of their part in this world? THEN, if you # up and follow the wrong path, the same "divine" God, tosses you into Hell .. the "Satan" doesn't even have to do anything, because the nice side gives him prey to torture anyways. I don't know.. seems like a messed up, sociopathic version of God..

Edit.. to fix a funny spelling mistake.

[edit on 4/14/2010 by Rockpuck]

Double edit to add.... I am not making fun (intentionally) of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.. just trying to understand your logic.

[edit on 4/14/2010 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I talked with him a few times and he actually seems like nice enough guy. I just thought he was nuts when he started taking the advice on life from the nut job homeless guy. I personally wouldn't take advice from anyone not doing better than I am. It would be like me giving financial advice to Donald Trump.

Originally posted by network dude

 

So you call Jesus God, but admit he was the son of God. do you find that confusing at all? He was crucified, died and was buried, on the 3rd day he rose from the dead, and is seated at the right hand of the father.

Is that a fair assessment of how you see Jesus?

Aye, it is a fair assessment.
G7 Out.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist

Oh, and what’s a Stompk?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
An obnoxious, closed-minded bigot.

Originally posted by networkdude
I never saw him as a bigot, he was just confused. And possibly a bit nuts.

Well. ...while I have been called crazy on occasion, I assure you, I am no Stompk.
G7 Out.

[edit on 14-4-2010 by Gary7MediaTerrorist]

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
Well. ...while I have been called crazy on occasion, I assure you, I am no Stompk.

I never said you were him. I have not seen him here in some time.

Where is the evidence that Masons are evil minions of the devil? I have been looking into them and have been unable to find any actual evidence that they are an evil organization. There are plenty of rumors but no hard evidence that I can find. What seems apparent to me though is that they are hated and targeted by a wide variety of Christian groups. Maybe someone can show why they are evil. Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist
The answer lies in the simple but again, humbling fact that we do not define God for ourselves.

Of course we do. You yourself have defined God through your own religious culture, i.e., Christianity. Had you been born in Yemen, you would be telling us about how there is no God but Allah, and that Muhammed is his prophet. If you were born by the Ganges, you would be singing the hymns of Shiva, and if you were raised in the Salt Lake City area, you'd be telloing us about Moroni and the golden plates.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist

Originally posted by Truth1000
Since God is eternal and greater than can be contained within our universe, how can we expect that we can define God.

Hello. Nice to meet you.
Great Question Truth1K., The answer lies in the simple but again, humbling fact that we do not define God for ourselves. It is He who reveals Himself to us.

Which is all well and good. Except how do we frail mortal creatures with such a comparatively limited ability to comprehend encompass all that is God?

Answer? We can't.

He reveals to us as much as in His Infinite Wisdom, He knows us to be able to comprehend. This doesn't mean that that's everything of Him to be known.

It would be hubris for us to believe otherwise.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist

Originally posted by Truth1000
Throughout time, and regardless of the culture, mankind has sought for an understanding of God, and how we can relate to God. Masonry, as with other forms of formalized human efforts, can but demonstrate the slightest characteristics of God. Is it wrong to seek?

Certainly not. Still, time waits for no man and if you wait too late before you get your business straight, you could regret it forever.
G7 Out

If, by bringing together in harmony, men of good will of differing faiths to work together for the general good and benefit of all mankind, are we not collectively doing God's Will? My Lodge has brethren of Sikh, Jewish, Muslim and all flavours of Christian working together in unity; how am I to believe that a loving God is going to chastise all save one particular sect?

For me, I don't.

I believe he will receive all with the praise of "Well done, good and faithful servant".

Originally posted by liveandletlive
Where is the evidence that Masons are evil minions of the devil? I have been looking into them and have been unable to find any actual evidence that they are an evil organization. There are plenty of rumors but no hard evidence that I can find. What seems apparent to me though is that they are hated and targeted by a wide variety of Christian groups. Maybe someone can show why they are evil. Thanks in advance.

We are evil because we don't discriminate. We believe that men of good will, good intent and good action are good and godly men and don't berate them for not honouring God in the exact manner and with the exact words we do.

Tolerance is the hallmark of the Devil in the eyes of the intolerant.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist

Originally posted by Truth1000
Since God is eternal and greater than can be contained within our universe, how can we expect that we can define God.

Hello. Nice to meet you.
Great Question Truth1K., The answer lies in the simple but again, humbling fact that we do not define God for ourselves. It is He who reveals Himself to us.

God reveals himself to everyone differently....i think the conflict here is that you are looking for an objective view at God whereby it is a subjective view but the common denominator between all is that there is something higher than themselves that they believe in.

Originally posted by Gary7MediaTerrorist

Originally posted by network dude

 

So you call Jesus God, but admit he was the son of God. do you find that confusing at all? He was crucified, died and was buried, on the 3rd day he rose from the dead, and is seated at the right hand of the father.

Is that a fair assessment of how you see Jesus?

Aye, it is a fair assessment.
G7 Out.

That the same guy I know. So again I ask, how is it even remotely possible that I am praying to a different God because I am a mason?

Originally posted by network dude
That the same guy I know. So again I ask, how is it even remotely possible that I am praying to a different God because I am a mason?

That's my issue too. When the Great Architect Of The Universe is invoked and I'm thinking Holy Trinity, how on Earth are my thoughts redirected and repurposed to thinking of Beelzebub? Makes not a whit of sense to me.

Gary, you say that Masons' logic is flawed. I'm trying to get to the root of where this fault may lie, so let's discuss this argument from a purely logical point of view, then...

The following argument is sound according to formal logic (and can be tested as such). If the conclusion is false, it implies that one of the premises must be false.

Since you believe that the conclusion is false, you must, by necessity, believe that one of the premises is false.

Premise 1: All Masons believe that God is the creator.
Premise 2: All Masons worship only God.
Premise 3: Satan is not the creator.
Conclusion: Therefore Masons do not worship Satan.

Which of the above premises do you believe is false?