Who founded Wicca, and was it planted by the NWO?

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Thank you for your post.

I agree 100% and you are absolutely correct with you analysis of this topic.

Kudos for being one of the few people not blinded by their religious zealotry (yes Wiccans can be zealots too), and able to speak plainly about the subject without fear of their whines and criticisms.

Thank you for telling the truth.

No problem. I regard myself as a pagan atheist - okay, pause to explain this...

I am a pagan in that I respect the religions of my ancestors on both sides of the Atlantic, and have been practicing shamanism since my late teens. I regard the Earth and Sky as gods, for lack of a better word. I pay respect to my ancestors in a fairly animistic way, and have conducted rituals honoring the world around me as well as said ancestors. I have adopted a totem and use it as my name here.

However, I do not do so religiously. I do not believe that the earth and sky are active, interested gods - I only use the term "god" because English lacks a better word. I do not think my totem or ancestors intervene on my behalf, for good or ill. I look to them for lessons - no different than reading a helpful book. I do not believe in supernatural events, miracles, or any of the like.

So basically, I'm "cultural" more than "religious" - sort of like how a lot of Jews are culturally Jewish but are otherwise atheists.

Anyway. Like I said, I'm a pagan atheist. I have a deep interest in religion - pagan, mainstream, and assorted otherwise. I had a good opportunity to study Wicca when my mother converted.

Having a penis, I found the whole thing rather lacking in appeal.

I find Wicca to be, on its own, an interesting expression of the religious creativity of humans. If it works for you, good for you. it's when people start trying to pretend it's something ancient and revered and that all the religions of the world are really Wicca that I get annoyed and start laying about with the axe handle. it becomes really problematic when they start grab-bagging goddesses from places that had no involvement in anything European. Chantico and Itzpapalotl aren't your freakin' "The Goddess"!

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Fascinating issues - as always!
A lot of pagans are going the shamanic way, or including influences of this.
Native Americans, for example have commented that the New Agers are quite individualistic types, and they could never comprehend the communal ceremonies of a tribal people.

As for assuming native or foreign deities, why not? Hinduism has a belief that all the various deities are but different expression of one Godhead.

For better or worse (never even mind the accuracy) Native American beliefs have become a global aspect of religion. In some countries like Germany "hobby-Indianism" has been a popular recreational and spiritual movement for over a century - and Native artists and shamans are regularly flown in. Especially the former East Germany encouraged it, since the communal living was in line with socialist teaching. While this can be interpreted as patronizing, it has created livelihoods for Native people, and possibly even encouraged the survival of traditions and identity.

A goddess energy can have many names, and there are Wiccans from all kinds of backgrounds. I mean Christians don't say to other faiths like voodoo: stop using OUR icons, or Mother Mary because that's not your racial heritage!
In postcolonialism everything is "hybrid culture" in any case.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


With all due respect I suspect your mother converted after Starhawk and Z budapest exploded onto the scene because the earlier incarnation existed before the second round of feminism appeared in the 60s.

The first round was essentially the suffragettes. Wicca really is a flexible feast

How much evidence is there for the use of 'venefica' in that 1000 years. I ask only because the other poster appears to be placing a lot of weight on the use of this word.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

According to Wikipedia "venefica" was a Roman sorceress who could poison. I think that comes as close to "witch" as one can find from pre-Christian days.
en.wikipedia.org...



[edit on 4-4-2010 by halfoldman]

The Eastern Religions and New Age Movement was started long long ago.
The whole scenario began with Satan and his legion. This whole TREE of knowledge is another counterfeit method of Satan against God's plan.
Satan works very hard to fool the masses.
Even the Green movement was started from the PAGAN religion.

I was in the unfortunate position of falling afoul of Her Royal Majesties Occult services and the Black Wizards of the Vatican in 1998 and was subjected to 24/7/365 electronic and psychic attack for 7 years the dark arts are the new frontier of weaponisation and unfortunately Sith Lords are common with religious secret societies and intelligence services the mindless bastardisation,black magic and technical wizardry I've been through tell me that wicca among the masses is at best amatuer hour anyone with real talents or abilities will be pressed into service on the dark side...or if they refuse as I did choose hell on earth.

I would not daddle in magic TPTB well and truly have your number

reply to post by anglodemonicmatrix

That's a truely fascinating post. Strange how many of the allegedly deprogramed mind-control slaves in David Icke and other writing were abused and molested as kids and called things like "Mother Goddess", or "Earth Goddess". (This conspiracy has nothing to do with Wiccans of course - they cannot be tied to such criminal activities.)

You seem to say something I've also suspected: Wicca and other legit groups involved with magick and psychic work are like a visible source from which those with talent can be conveniantly spotted and recruited by the more nefarious segments of the NWO.

I have little proof of this however, but at a certain stage there is a feeling of being closely observed.
I suppose if there was real proof of the NWO occult societies and the political and religious leaders involved it wouldn't be a conspiracy or secret society.

reply to post by halfoldman

How peculiar, I just heard of a friend who burnt Wiccan book in her outside fire-place. Why would people do that?

Originally posted by halfoldman


Whatever the various meanings may be for adherents today, my questions are:
- Was Gardner a Freemason and why does the oath of secrecy copy Masonic material?

Gardner was not himself a Freemason, but borrowed from the rituals of Freemasonry and other fraternal orders when creating his own rituals for Wicca.

- What was the role of Aleister Crowley? Was Crowley not a self-confessed Satanist or black magician?

No. Crowley was a "white magician", but is sometimes confused with being a black magician because he was so anti-Christian. Crowley was raised in a fundamentalist Christian cult, and spent his adult rebelling against the religion of his youth, having considered Christianity to be a hypocritical mish-mesh of old pagan ideas, fit only for those who possessed a herd mentality. His occult teachings, however, were the promotion of Theurgy, the Magick of Light.

- I got into Wicca through the books of Sybil Leek, who claimed that Wicca was indeed an ancient, secret tradition in her New Forest region of southern Britain. Is it possible that Wicca had indeed survived inter-generationally and existed before Gardner? Or did Gardner and his followers invent it.

It is certain that Wicca as an actual religion was founded by Gardner. However, it is possible that small groups of neo-pagans existed here and there on the British Isles during Gardner's time.

If Gardner and Crowley invented it, then it was indeed planted as another means of social and mind control by the NWO. Well, that would be my interpretation.

Crowley did not invent it, and did not seem very impressed by it. Gardner may have done it for fame and money-making purposes.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by halfoldman - Yeah, Wiccans aren't now, but put 'em in charge and see what happens.

[edit on 4-4-2010 by TheWalkingFox]

I actually don't disagree with you on this.

[edit on 2010/4/13 by Aeons]

reply to post by Masonic Light


Well Gardner did not seem to make much money out of it but there were many nubile young women around and also a lot of liberal sexuality floating around. Just think about the GR and flirting with certain aspects of LHP tantra!!!

The idea of clothing preventing anyone or interfering with the raising of the cone of power is such complete piffle that it must really be viewed as a softening up technique for certain males to get women to lower their guard and undergarments later.

Gardner grew at a time of the last great blooming of masonry at which time everyone wanted to have a touch of freemasonry in their rituals because that was the only quasi esoteric source of ritual that many had known of...


[edit on 18-4-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by halfoldman


Its a close quartered secret that the wicca is upcoming in the world. After Bushes peaceful however conflicstricken times. The advent of Obama made wicca back into society. Bushes fight kept the wicca and its bir and birnbaum out of everything. Inlisting science technology, ufo interset and a fanatic interst in body energy and field. They have unleashed the wicked way of the burn back on us. Quoting Nostradamus. The furniss is reinvented and fore a long time the evil times return. Wicca has today a massive array of gathered technics many of them straight out of nsa cia and kgb arsenals. Even the dr mabus of germany Niels Birnbaumers smelly way is set back into the world. The most troubeling side is the conection to the nsa and its free use of blue beam on wicca comuneties with wiccas great enjoyment. Blue beam has the component of the burning of humanity, and wicca is really into it. Based on earlier phoenix 2 concepts of earthquake machines loading the earth field with electricety to achive planetary sonambulensence. The earthquakes through electricety loading achieves orgone effect of Wilhelm Reich to make matters worse fore the burn hungry. Society can not sustain electricety in the body as orgone leads to over sexualety, extremism, a blend of the two. Pluss certain paranormal effects. The scenario of the middle east today is a result of loading the north africa with electricety. And the ffects of hallisunation is of that- blue beam is more of a orgone effect that super technology, And the voices and telepathy a direct result of high ampers in body and society. The earth field can not be truncated without causing voice. Extreme violance in socety leading often to psycopathic fire spreas like in russia and norway are the result of loading electricety. As well as the bir rape of a woman. Wicca has inetrtwined itselfe in the reoccuring fiering of the phoenix that is fiered every ten years fore mind control to achieve the bir code. A hypnotic code fore timeloss and programming of people. As well as the eartquakes of Rainbow zap. There is the added possebelty that the loading of the eartfield lines is in fact the original atomic bomb and the massive capabilety we today in the lhc and tevatron thet by enourmas loads of voltage loads through a Reich pipe. To achive earthfield loading and gravity. The voice phenomanas in humans and of telepathy is in many respects only dependent of have beeing subjected to lectric field. No chip only electriecty. The wicca movement as in Sanders and Sanders have chosen to congruate Norway in places naemd with the word sand. These places haave seen a much higer rate of murder rape and arsen. Also it should be noted thet the massive orgone generators of the nsa also stand near sandpits. This to achieve the orgone effect that is in fact the halo. A halo in a human beeing is not a psyciatristst bigges dream however has become the life of many. The orgone energy and the insessent lust fore a field as the only way. Has led to an instabilety and in expeciallyc women a diffrent and dangerous aproach to socety. It means the field pro and the field against can never get to be agreeing. Therfore this is a perfect project to distabalized humanity. Reiches concepts were after his life seen as some of the most dangerous war and post war ideas. Listing Einstein in reviwing his concepts as bad. Quoting him in I am so afraid of the humantics. Wilhelm Reich fore weaponizing and installing the huamn cyborg was reviwed heavily in 1983 as the phoenix 2 was set fore our firts collor revoloution. In my country Norway the second was in 1999 and again in 2010. Its worth to mention that the cern faccileties main fierings were in 1972, 1983, 1995 when voice appeard in a big way. And in 1999. Ans in 2010. An terrefieng fact would be reviwing Reaches conceps the issue of door effects and loss of field through radiation. The recent targetting of the japanese powerplants indicate delibarate destruction of these to created door effect. Isssues of em howitzers are also used to negate the field. Its a worreing fact thayt atomic wapons even can be used to the control of the field and humanity. The anti christ is lightning from the heights.

Was Gardner a Freemason and why does the oath of secrecy copy Masonic material?

For what I've read, he was not a Freemason and not a scholar either, since he - supposedly - faked his degrees. He started showing interest in the cerimonal practices and mythology during his stay in the Canary Islands, that doesn't suprises me since it's a place where shamanic practices still live. It was when he returned to England that he joined a so called "witch-coven" that was more likely to be a private group that worked with freemansonry material.

The oath of secrecy was due to the fact that the witchcraft act was still up, or at least, that's the excuse but he might have picked that from masonic materials, yes. He used characteristics of various philosophies and religions around the world, which makes Wicca a very eclectic religion. Still today the secrecy oath is still up in the Gardnerian tradition but they use it as a "selection" process, to see if people can handle the work group, whitout compromizing it's members and to ensure that members keep studying. Personally, I find it a little unnecessary but I'm not a group person.

What was the role of Aleister Crowley? Was Crowley not a self-confessed Satanist or black magician?

To me Aleister Crowley was a "gifted" madman. What he really was... gods know. He died in poverty and alone, that's for sure. People like him, don't make many friends, specially if you have such magnificent stories build around you. It all seems to start when he joined The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn - where he came in contact with both Doreen Valiente and Gerald Gardner. This Order, as you should know, was very eclectic itself and yes, it also used masonic material.
Not sure about him being a satanist, maybe it was something that was used or that he used to "explain" himself, since he was not very conventional for the time. He engaged in homossexual activities, was a sexual deviant and recreational drug experimenter. All I know, since his story is somewhat couldy, is that he was a cerimonial magician and experimented not only with drugs but with all sorts of rituals and practices. Something that could come in handy for Gerald Gardner, obviously - even though his involvement in creating rituals was never proven.

I got into Wicca through the books of Sybil Leek, who claimed that Wicca was indeed an ancient, secret tradition in her New Forest region of southern Britain. Is it possible that Wicca had indeed survived inter-generationally and existed before Gardner? Or did Gardner and his followers invent it.

I've came across wicca many years ago through a parapsychologist, I've been practicing and studying it for over a decade now - which is nothing, really. Since I never seeked it's validity - even though it's a registed religion in my country - I never gave much thought about if it was "invented" or "ancient".
Although, I highly doubt that the modern form of paganism called "wicca" was an ancient religion, which doesn't destroy it's validity as a religion or lifestyle for some. Paganism and shamanism on the other hand, are ancient, yes. Wicca is a rivival of those practices and religions, using modern time materials and knowledge. Because, really... if there was a form of witchcraft in acient times they wouldn't use all that cerimony or even tools in their rituals, since the practicer would more likely to be of lower classes and would have little access to education. They would use the lore of the land to heal - or curse - people on their villages.

If Gardner and Crowley invented it, then it was indeed planted as another means of social and mind control by the NWO. Well, that would be my interpretation.

Wicca florished indeed but not to the point that would control the masses or even society, really. People still fear it and are misinformed about it generally. It florished by the needs of that time: Sexual freedom, enviromental concern, world peace, occultism rising to the medias awareness as a trend, etc. Besides, Gardner himself confess to Valiente that he was afraid that Wicca, as it was, wouldn't last another decade. Fortunatly, Wicca, as a religion, evolved and grown with modern times and modern needs.

My sister is Wicca and as the brother of the empress of earth I command you to send me all your money.
My sister just wants your spells.