Socialism is NOT a bad thing

Originally posted by Divinorumus


How do you commies sleep at night, knowing that you're a bunch of thieves, living off of someone else's blood, sweat, and tears, hum? Do you not have a conscience? Charity is only charity when it's voluntary. This mandate is a theft, an immoral jack.

How do you get through the day??

With your stereotypes and uneducated and totally outdated view of the world.. you literally have no clue what you're talking about.

I was going to go through and tackle your post point by point... but then i read it... and realised, you're not actually saying anything.

You have no CLUE

Get one

Originally posted by Divinorumus

That's not it at all and you know it. It's more like this: don't tell me what I MUST do for you, and keep your damn thieving fingers out of my pockets.

Jesus would be disgusted with your attitude.

:shk:


[edit on 29/3/10 by blupblup]

reply to post by ShadeWolf


Canada is not a true socialist regime.

If you want a taste, of socialism, ask people who have lived in Nazi Germany, or Russia pre-USSR collapse. There's a reason why people never flee TOWARDS communist countries, and are always FLEEING AWAY from them.

And you are right though, in theory socialism isnt a bad idea, especially from the lower class' standpoint. But, thats only "in theory". Hell, when I was in my early teens, I read books by Chomsky on Anarchism, Communism, and the like. I thought they were great ideas and would be better for humanity in the long run. But then I woke up, and saw the world for what it really is. Poor people always want more than they can afford, and are jealous of people who work hard and can afford things like Health care, etc. The politicians and the ruling elite dont give a rats ass about the poor people, but they find ways to make them think they are making political decisions on their behalf. In reality they are only making decisions that benefit themselves, and their wall street cronies.

The reason why an idea like socialism will never truly work, is that man is an imperfect species. No matter how hard we try to just be equals, there will always be those of us who want more... who are power hungry, greedy, and will not be content having the same as their neighbor.

This is why it has failed in the past, and in my opinion why it will continue to fail in the future.

Originally posted by blupblup
Jesus would be disgusted with your attitude.

Well, he can't be any more disgusted with me than with those that murdered his ass. Frankly though, I think ya'll better be wondering what your jebus thinks of theft. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between charity and theft!

Listen, I don't know what kind of world you think this is becoming, but a moocher society is nothing I want to be part of. I'll say it again .. it's not charity when you steal from another. Charity can only voluntary!!! My primary issue with socialism is that the moochers want to make it mandatory, and nobody has any right to make those decision about me and my life. Leave me alone or I will start my own war with the moochers! Not you, not anyone else, not even YOUR elected overlord, have any right to decide how I should live. Got THAT, hewmons!

And I'm not for any mandatory socialist collective health insurance scheme until everyone 1) gets rid of their teevee and couches, 2) gets up off their fat lazy asses and run 6 miles every morning, and 3) stops shoving their face full of bad fat ass food, and 4) starts using their money FOR health insurance instead of teevees and cable and computers and internet and beer and cigarettes, etc. People better get their damn priorities straight and their personal finances under control before they come around trying to force me into paying for the freaking living expenses. Gawd, how do people that mooch off other sleep at night? Hum?

reply to post by Isosceles


I'm Canadaian dude. And I stand by my comments. Our state run health care is a flipping joke. It took me 7 months to get a MRI and my mother had to wait 2 months for major heart surgery. I personally know 2 people ona waiting list for a kidney transplant and 1 is desperate enough to pay to get 1.

Meanwhile, premier Williams of NewfieLand, went to Florida for his heart surgery and paid for it out of his pocket. He slagged our own system as being too slow.

Yes Isosceles, we are equal in Canada when it comes to health care.

Except some are more equal than others.

reply to post by WhiteDevil013


Canada is a Democratic Socialist country, the same with the United Kingdom, France, and many other Center-Left countries.

There are many kinds of socialism, just as there are multiple kinds of capitalism in government practice too. To say that a country is not truly socialist unless they are Communist or National Socialist is like saying that a country does not have true capitalism unless it is a strict-Libertarian system. You are taking the idea to a illogical extreme.

Originally posted by Divinorumus
Well, he can't be any more disgusted with me than with those that murdered his ass.

Frankly though, I think ya'll better be wondering what your jebus thinks of theft. There is a BIG DIFFERENCE between charity and theft!

Ain't my Jesus dude.... I ain't religious... but you were saying on the last page
that you no longer feel it's "One nation under god" but under Satan now?

I was merely pointing out that Jesus would be disgusted with your attitude... believe me, If Jesus were around now... He'd most definitely be a Socialist...

Listen, I don't know what kind of world you think this is becoming, but a moocher society is nothing I want to be part of. I'll say it again .. it's not charity when you steal from another. Charity can only voluntary!!!

It's already a greedy, look-after-your-self-screw-everyone-else-mess of a world right now.
What it's becoming I don't even want to think about.


It's not stealing from anyone.

You all pay into it and everyone benefits.... we have National Insurance and that pays for the healthcare for everyone.

I would rather have a public health care system that works for everyone, than a private, for-business style system whereby only the corporations and insurance companies benefit.

But hey, that's just me.... oh and Canada and France and a few other countries too...

My primary issue with socialism is that the moochers want to make it mandatory, and nobody has any right to make those decision about me and my life.

Are you serious??

So you're happy for greedy politicians and corporations to help themselves to your tax money and tell you how much your life is worth.... but you wouldn't want that same money, actually probably less money, going to help those less fortunate than yourself??

What a model human being you are

Leave me alone or I will start my own war with the moochers! Not you, not anyone else, not even YOUR elected overlord, have any right to decide how I should live. Got THAT, hewmons!

Apart from the politicians that run your life and the insurance companies who tell you how much your life is worth and the police and judicial system who tell you what is right and wrong and..... ok ok .... you get the point right?

And I'm not for any mandatory socialist collective health insurance scheme until everyone 1) gets rid of their teevee and couches, 2) gets up off their fat lazy asses and run 6 miles every morning, and 3) stops shoving their face full of bad fat ass food, and 4) starts using their money FOR health insurance instead of teevees and cable and computers and internet and beer and cigarettes, etc. People better get their damn priorities straight and their personal finances under control before they come around trying to force me into paying for the freaking living expenses. Gawd, how do people that mooch off other sleep at night? Hum?

I agree... there are many people who should get their priorities in order and need to sort themselves and their health out..... but I would not punish the sincere and honest people because of the actions of a few idiots.


The fact that you have to pay for healthcare is a travesty IMO.... I hope this healthcare "Reform" is just the first step in the journey towards free healthcare...

Join the rest of us


[edit on 29/3/10 by blupblup]

Originally posted by blupblup
If Jesus were around now... He'd most definitely be a Socialist...

Ah, well, that explains a lot, that's probably why he got whacked .. he was probably caught pickpocketing some dude for his lunch money. I would have nailed him to a barn door if I caught him stealing from me.

The fact that you have to pay for healthcare is a travesty IMO....

What? That's now the most silliest thing I've heard today. You want to enslave doctors, make them work for free? You know, food is more important to your health than health insurance. You want to force farmers to work to feed you for free too?

Gawd, this planet is being overrun with thieves, moochers, and freeloaders. Save us jebus, save us ... err ah, oops, scratch that one .. Save us satan, save us from the dominating slaver master thieves and that pickpocket commie jesus guy, ha.

You know, CREDIT shouldn't be used for cars and teevees and ipods and computers and home furnishing and other stuff like that which most people can't afford and thus doesn't deserve. CREDIT should be used for emergencies, to finance those unfortunate unexpected PERSONAL expenses in life, such as hospital bills.

If someone can afford to get a $40,000 loan for a car then they can buy a beater instead and finance their $40,000 liposuction.

There are so many people that are so out of whack with their finances and it's all because they are not diciplined and can't control themselves.

Health insurance is not really that expensive, it's certainly less than new car payments. I can get a health insurance policy today for around $200 a month with a $5000 deductable. If people gave up some of their toys they too could afford to care for their OWN asses.

Here's something I would like to know about: Why is it cheaper to go to the hospital if you don't have insurance than if you did? I should have had health insurance a few years ago when I caught a bad lung infection that ended up putting me in the hospital for 10 days while I underwent a thoracotomy operation. I ended up with a pile of bills that totalled over $90,000. The day after I got out of the hospital I started to call all these health providers and explained I didn't have that kind of money right now and didn't have health insurance. They told me that since I didn't have health insurance that the bill would be reduced by 46%. Every single provider I called automatically reduced their bill by 46-48% except for one which I still owe $800 to .. and since they wouldn't give me a break, they are still waiting for their check. Everyone else has been paid off now except for that one.

So, why was everything cheaper because I didn't have health insurance than if I had insurance? You know, we could reduce the cost of health care today if we eliminated all health insurance if THAT is how things work. What kind of logic is this where if you have health insurance the price is doubled? Anyone have an answer for that?

Originally posted by Divinorumus

What? That's now the most silliest thing I've heard today. You want to enslave doctors, make them work for free?

Why would they work for free?

Everyone's taxes pay for it or a "National Insurance" type system as the UK has... I didn't mention them working for free


Look we're never going to agree.


You don't think people who can't afford healthcare should have it... and I think Everyone has a right to free healthcare....

I agree with you about all the social issues you raise and about credit and so on.... but that's not the issue.
That is only a symptom of the problem of money ruling everything and money and wealth being the ultimate aim instead of health and happiness...


Gotta love the current system huh?

Working real good for ya :shk:

Originally posted by blupblup
Gotta love the current system huh?

Working real good for ya :shk:

My problems are my problems, not your problem, not the governments problem.

All I ask is count me out of any health care collective in a nation where 33%+ of it's citizens are obese mcdonalds chowing lazy ass couch potatoes.

What is the percentage of people out there that take good care of themselves, exercise intensely for at least an hour a day, eat only healthy foods, don't smoke, don't engage in risky sexual behaviors, etc.? And how many people out there don't give a damn about their health? I'm not about to contribute to anyones health care costs if they don't give a damn about their health themselves and refuse to exercise and eat right, etc.

Would you, as a good automobile driver, with no moving violations on your records, like to join an auto-insurance pool that was composed of a bunch of drunks that like to drive while intoxicated? Do you want to pay for your neighbors triple bypass surgery because he eats like a freaking hog and then sits all evening on his fat lardo ass watching teevee until they pass out? Do you want to pay for the horny ones that like to get STDs all the time? Do you want to pay the health care costs of all the junkies, unwed bottom feeders with loose morals that pop out illegitimate babies every 9 months?

And where do we draw the line, the limit? Every day there are hoards of old people that are suppose to die because now it's their time to leave and yet they desperately hang onto life no matter what it might cost another? We could probably keep everyone alive until they are 120 years old with enough medical care, but how much will THAT cost? Hum?

NO! I will not be part of this. Obama can go to hell and take is immoral commie ideology with him.

Whether socialism is great or whether it's not, and regardless of how anyone wants to define it, it's NOT RIGHT for ANYONE for force their ideologies down the throats of others. I will fight until death for the right to live my personal life as I please! Stick your fingers into my wallet and I'll chop your hand off, commies!

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Divinorumus]

Originally posted by Divinorumus


[edit on 29-3-2010 by OLDMATE]

Originally posted by Divinorumus

How can someone be NOT lazy and poor? Are they not making good use of their time? Do they have no ambition to better themselves? Are they merely working easy dummy jobs that don't pay much because they don't like responsibility or challenging jobs that pay a lot more? Are they up playing video games and blogging all day and night instead of improving their lives? What is preventing them from becoming wealthy if they are not lazy? Is there some law somewhere that says they must be poor? I know some dudes that claim that they are poor but these idiots spend many hours every evening watching teevee and playing computer games and surfing the internet .. when they could have been out earning money to pay for their keep.

So let me get this right. If a hooker's daughter only had a little more motivation to get to the top, she too could become a CEO of a corporation....or if the homeless man had a back bone he could ascend the ladders of power......get real. This is a fairy-tale. How many poor people do you even know? Coming from a lower class background myself, i know a few things about it. 1) Nobody WANTS to be poor, if they could escape it, they would. 2) Poor people dont sit in their nice comfortable homes playing xbox and bludging off the state like you seem to picture them, they dont have a home....

Originally posted by Divinorumus

What a disgusting nation this is becoming. First it was just the rich that wanted to take advantage of us [???] .. now the (so-called) poor want to do the same. I say screw them all, I'm so sick of everyones lame ass excuse for their predicament and how they want to rip off their neighbors to better themselves. Disgusting. It use to be you had to protect yourself from the enemy .. now you have to protect yourself from your own thieving citizens. Disgusting.

Who do you mean by "us"? If your condemning the rich AND the poor, then you must be one of the middle class, working people right? The ones who drive to work everyday along STATE funded roads. Charge they're consumer electrics from the magical plug in the wall, (most countries have power subsidised once again by the state), and pollute more than any other demographic while doing so.....
So its fine by you that the government spends tax money on armaments for overseas invasions, thats fine by you, so long as none of your money goes into helping the less fortunate of your countrymen?
Please tell me why you hate other Americans so much? Im not even from your country, and id help an American homeless person with my tax money just as readily as an aussie one...

Oh and would you please leave your whole bible-bashing stuff out of it, this is a thread on SOCIALISM......not America being the blessed land of the free.....*cough cough*



[edit on 29-3-2010 by OLDMATE]

Originally posted by Divinorumus

So, why was everything cheaper because I didn't have health insurance than if I had insurance? You know, we could reduce the cost of health care today if we eliminated all health insurance if THAT is how things work. What kind of logic is this where if you have health insurance the price is doubled? Anyone have an answer for that?

The simple answer its not.

You forced someone ELSE to pay 46%, or whatever, because you couldn't either...Much the same as the people who would benifit under a Public healthcare scheme....

Don't you see the irony here?

Your telling everyone that beleives socialism is NOT evil, that they're being immoral, because they want to help other people with their money, while you as a god-fearing patriot would rather they dont? and THEY'RE being immoral???????......thats some mixed up logic my friend...

I own two businesses, I am a firefighter and love being able to have and do more by working harder.

Most of you that are all for capitalism only system make an average income.

WTF are you thinking?

The system we need would not take away from a middle class to rich income level. All we need to do is not make the ruling kings, the super rich elite that have 99% of the wealth not have such a disproportionate amount of the nations wealth.

1% has nearly 99% of the nations wealth. They did not earn it they hurt people and ruined lives and killed people to get it. They did not do it by working harder or smarter they did it because they are animals without empathy, a bunch of psychopaths that just did whatever it took to take the wealth.

Some of you condone this?

Shame on you.

Originally posted by OLDMATE

So its fine by you that the government spends tax money on armaments for overseas invasions, thats fine by you, so long as none of your money goes into helping the less fortunate of your countrymen?
Please tell me why you hate other Americans so much? Im not even from your country, and id help an American homeless person with my tax money just as readily as an aussie one...

This is what I don't and never will understand.

Every person I have ever met that is for the dog eat dog lifestyle is always ok with funding the military industrial complex, funding the rich yet when it comes to helping my fellow countrymen they are against it.

Barely a yawn came out of them when the banks were put on welfare.

Yet talk about helping out your fellow hard working countrymen and they want revolution.

Are we in the twilight zone?

Why do I put my life on the line for you people? Why? @#$$%#!

Originally posted by OLDMATE
You forced someone ELSE to pay 46%, or whatever,

It's the whatever, dude. That 46% reduction was THEM giving up their profit margin to simply break even!!! And THAT is how health care should have been reformed. Why wasn't the health care industry turned into a non-profit industry. hum? THAT is the RIGHT solution. Nobody should be making a profit on someone else's unfortunate health issues. This of course doesn't mean the people working in the industry wouldn't get paid .. this merely means there would be no profit on the books at the end of each year. It should be break-even at the end of the year for every hospital. Seriously, $6,000 for two hours of a surgeons time, and $1,500 for a night in a crappy tiny hospital room and $6 for a aspirin is a bit too much profit if you ask me.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Divinorumus]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Barely a yawn came out of them when the banks were put on welfare.

Thats a very good point...When the banks were bailed out, whose money do you think paid for it? and who did that help? Rich investment bankers that don't give a flying f**k about the greater good, all they worry about is their renumeration packages when they leave...

Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by OLDMATE
You forced someone ELSE to pay 46%, or whatever,

It's the whatever, dude. That 46% reduction was THEM giving up their profit margin to simply break even!!! And THAT is how health care should have been reformed. Why wasn't the health care industry turned into a non-profit industry. hum? THAT is the RIGHT solution. Nobody should be making a profit on someone else's unfortunate health issues. This of course doesn't mean the people working in the industry wouldn't get paid .. this merely means there would be no profit on the books at the end of each year. It should be break-even at the end of the year for every hospital. Seriously, $6,000 for two hours of a surgeons time, and $1,500 for a night in a crappy tiny hospital room and $6 for a aspirin is a bit too much profit if you ask me.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Divinorumus]

Whatever was me telling everyone i dont know the exact percentage someone else bailed you out of...so please think about your remarks before posting them.....and no nobody gave up profit margins, somebody paid your bills, or even if dropping profit margins was the reason YOU didnt have to pay them, isnt that really the same thing, someone making less money because of you, therefore they're paying for you....you also say you still owe money to someone, isnt that a bit hypocritcal? I thought your problems were your problems, nobody elses, apparently im wrong.

Your ignorance astounds me. A non-profit industry?? What do you think would happen to the level of care given??? Does not even one tiny little part of your brain think, hold on if everyone is as money grubbing and immoral as you say they are, why would they spend so many years training to become a doctor/nurse/specialist and do so much hard work to get into a sector where they will never make anywhere near as much money as even small time businessmen?

And depending on the doctor i would say $6000 for 2 hours is NOT asking to much when you think they are probably some of the most highly trained individuals on the planet....$6000 is nothing compared to the profits of the obscenely rich.

Another thing, Socialists arent Communists.....so i would appreciate if you stopped with the whole "commie" thing. Two completely different idealogies.

To all ATS users - Is Divinorumus's thoughts on socialism representative of the majority of American's?.............

Originally posted by OLDMATE
A non-profit industry?? What do you think would happen to the level of care given???

Who cares if a hospital makes a profit or simply breaks even? The employees do not care, they only care that they get paid for their labor. The only people that care if a hospital makes a profit are its investors. Even the health insurance industry doesn't need to make a profit. The entire insurance industry should be non-profit. Hell, imagine if WE formed our own NOT FOR PROFIT health insurance company, do you think our policy rates would be cheaper?

Originally posted by Divinorumus
Hell, imagine if WE formed our own NOT FOR PROFIT health insurance company, do you think our policy rates would be cheaper?

Sure, with "your own" insurance company, you could make the rates as low as you'd like. Now, being able to pay claims and staying in business, without profits, is another thing, entirely. The word impossible come to mind.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by WTFover]

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One of the biggest Minnesota beneficiaries of federal handouts wasn't listed on the FOIA-requested database provided by the USDA. But when it comes to publicly subsidized windfalls, Cargill, Inc. is the $120-billion gorilla in the living room. "You won't find them on the database, but they buy the raw product produced by corn and soy farmers, who are themselves highly subsidized," says Carr. "This enables them to buy corn and other commodities at artificially low prices." The influx of taxpayer money drives down costs on the front end, which inflates the profit margin on the back end. In other words, Cargill's overhead is, in effect, partially subsidized by the public, while the resulting profits remain 100 percent privatized. (Cargill did not return several phone calls requesting comment.) The company's profits are consequently stratospheric. During the last full fiscal year, the agribusiness behemoth reaped $3.64 billion. The largest privately held corporation in America, Cargill would be among the top 10 companies in the Fortune 500 were it publicly traded. With so much cash, no wonder Cargill pays almost $1.5 million each year to federal lobbyists. Now that's money well spent.

Cargill: Our taxes, global destruction

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[edit on 29-3-2010 by drew hempel]