The social issue no one in Australia wants to talk about

It is a very complex issue and no one wants to talk about it - just push it to the side and hope it fixes itself. But you can't go around dehumanizing them, for being exactly that - human. Last time I checked, substance abuse, child abuse ect are all human conditions so why call them animals?

But the only way to stop the cycle of abuse, both substance and physical, crime ect is by educating the children and hoping that it stops.

Society in general in Australia is taking a turn for the worse.

Originally posted by munkey66

A proud people do not want handouts, they want to be listened to, how about we ask rather than tell them how to live their lives and then see if we can fix some issues.

They don't want to be listened to, after K. Rudd's sorry speech they complained that "Sorry" wasnt good enough and the government needed to do more.

If its not handouts they were referring to, what is it?

reply to post by Chadwickus


"You cant buy a high IQ"
Well actually you can.
Simple Artificial Insemination with Genius donors should in 5 generations make the Aborigines the smartest group of people on the planet.

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
So champ *pats you on the head*, whats your suggestion ? How would you help indigenous Australians given you seem to know it all ?

eh, how the hell do i know, i'm not an australian aboriginal, maybe you could start by asking them what they want instead of whining that they don't respect the western way of life the government provides.

Lmao, great idea. Wonder why no one has ever done that.... Oh wait..

Never mind, it seems they have, and the end result is the very thing Chad is posting about in this thread. Oh well.

then you should probably stop letting newspapers and general a=holes spout racist bull***t about them.

Like what?

the bulk of my answer revolves around treating people with respect and allowing them their dignity, so it probably won't suffice.

No it doesn't. You just have an agenda. Simple.

Originally posted by 1xion325alpha
Society in general in Australia is taking a turn for the worse.

This is perhaps the saddest truth spoken in the whole thread.

How do we fix it? No idea, and sadly I don't think our Government does either.

Originally posted by pieman
right, scrap the current government, set up a system of governance based on either the traditional governance methods of the indigenous population or another system chosen by the indigenous population. then have every single non-indigenous person apply for residency and citizenship in the same way that any other illegal immigrant would have to.

Oh man... now I know you have a problem...

What about the mixed blood Aborigines? Do they have to apply also, or do they only have to half apply? Or quarter apply?

Man ... honestly?? Is that you're solution??



What about my cousins? Half black half white? DO *I* get to stay here because our blood is mixed?

Woot. Bring it on, Free stuff...

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
I'll bet London to a brick if you ask Indigenous Australian leaders, they'd tell you the same thing as me...The reality is, a lot of indigenous Australians have no desire to live the way their forbears did...

which is why i said "set up a system of governance based on either the traditional governance methods of the indigenous population or another system chosen by the indigenous population."

In your world, which tribe would this governance be based on? You should be aware that there were hundreds of different skin types, most of whom did not get along, so you can understand that your world might need some revision.

Which indigenous population? Pick one. And why?

reply to post by Chadwickus


Hey... your ancestors #ed the Aboriginals over BIGTIME, and you're going to have to pay for the luxuries you get to enjoy at their expense. Even if it means "OMG PAYING MY 'HARD-EARNED' TAX-DOLLARS" to remedy this situation.

And speaking as a Yank, I can tell you that here in the States we also owe A HELLUVA LOT to the Native descendants who are, like the Aborigines, reeling from genocide, alcoholism, a general destruction/theft of their entire culture, and then breaking of most treaties and being kicked off the best lands to live on the worst with hardly any resources.

So, yeah in a way, it is your responsibility. Deal with it. I'd gladly pay (or force people to pay) any tax to remedy what happened to the Natives here.

reply to post by Maxxximus187


I wouldn't accept an appology from Rudd either, it is easy to point the finger and call names suggesting they all want hand outs.

I know of plenty of incidents when white people trach commision homes only to get put into a new one, they are also living off handouts and get drunk as well as smoke dope, but thats OK, they have a reason to be like that, society hasn't given them the same opportunities as the rest of us.

Very easy to point the finger of blame at some of these communities, but look close at the picture of the stove, appears to be gas, do you really think there is a reliable gas supply in all communities, half can't even get a stable phone line, let alone gas.

The fridge is probably runs on gas as well, wouldn't be the frst time a public servant brought the wrong products because they where cheaper and shipped them off while all the time telling people how much they just helped the community and they don't appreciate what we give them.

reply to post by Chadwickus
[more

Quite possible that I am just a dumb American but what the hell is an "RCD?"

The social issue no one in Australia wants to talk about

Firstly, to the title I have to say 'Bzzzzzzt, wrong!!!' many of us want to talk about it and in fact do, all the time.
But as you so rightly say, the minute you do talk about it the do-gooders leap out of everywhere yelling racism.

I have lived amongst them and still do, and the biggest problem I see here is lack of understanding all round.
Anyone who has not lived near or amongst Australian aboriginals will have no comprehension of the problems at all.

The first and most basic problem is the half white/half black (halfcast)peoples, these are the majority in aboriginal society here.

The full bloods mostly live on their own lands and have no need of whitey's handouts, altho they will accept it if offered, usually to build a new shed or buy a new vehicle for the community.

The halfcasts are the ones that have slipped through the system, been left to their own devices and are now expected to fit in with white society when they don't know how and have never been taught how.

People have said let them go back out on to the land. They can't! The halfcasts are not accepted in the full blood society so have not been taught those ways either.

So here we have a people who cannot live the traditional way as they don't know how and a lot don't want to as, after all, they are half white. And they can't live in white suburbia the way the white population expects them to because their aboriginal mothers didn't teach them how look after a house, send the kids to school or service the car they were given because those mothers were usually ostracized by their own tribes and had to live on the outskirts of white society, for getting themselves pregnant to a white guy. (so didn't know these things herself)

3,4 even 5 generations later still no one has taught them how.

How do I know these things?
I've lived amongst them and listened to their stories, and seen much with mine own eyes.

Some 20 years ago our local council built aprox. 50 houses in a new development, for rent to aboriginals. Three months after said aboriginals moved in only one house had a nice lawn, curtains in the intact windows and was in a generally good state of repair.
The rest were trashed, broken windows, doors hanging off, no lawns, 'what are curtains?', dead car bodies everywhere.

Do I blame the inhabitants? No. They didn't know any better.
They were taken from the bush and had no idea what to do.

Nothing much has changed either, they still don't know how to live the 'white' way and have no where else to go.
They don't fit in with white society and they don't fit in with fullbloods either.
There are no jobs for them, hell there are no jobs for non abos.

Unfortunately the problem has never been addressed properly and our government has just made things worse, to the point where a solution is going to be very difficult to come by.

I wanted to address a couple of other points, however I'm running out of space on this post

Maybe later

reply to post by PennyQ


So what do you think these people need if neither of their halves will accept them or teach them?

What do you do in that situation? It's saddening to hear about.

Are they generally happier or less happy than full-blooded Aborigines or whites living in "normal" society?

What can be done to help them find themselves, both via conventional solutions or even radical/new ones?

Originally posted by Chadwickus

Still looks better then most parts of Iraq but then again it is the sign of things to come in the future.

[edit on 24/3/10 by Chadwickus]

some of you people from Europe really DO NOT understand what they are like do you?

There was a huge government program to give them what they wanted the government officials spoke with the tribal elders to see what sort of housing they wanted.

Well they described it the government built it they trashed it and pulled most of it down for firewood until the house was uninhabitable due to their own actions then demanded more housing from the government.

We have all tried to help them in all ways possible you think we are all racist so we give them money then the indigenous people blame us for giving them money.

The government also rolled out a welfare plan for two troubled areas as a test to see if it would work where if the children didn't show up to school and there was no DR certificate their welfare payments cut
and you know what it worked.

So why did they terminate the program well all the do gooders said it was racism and it shouldn't be just for them and blah blah blah now everything has gone back to the way it was.

We get sick and tired of hearing how hard done by they are we want them to move forward but htey just don't want to do anything they would rather wait for their handouts.

Also more info for you the families that have the land rights get paid hundreds of millions of dollars and live a good life when the communities that they live in or are on their land go to waste no help at all.

So it isn't like they get nothing .25% homeloans that extends to up to 1/4 aboriginies car loans where they make one payment and don't pay the rest and the government does even priority job placement on mine sites even if they don't have the skills so you telling me we don't do enough to help them.

Well I've told you what we do what you lot think of us so if you think you have all the answers why don't you suggest it and I'll garrantee that is has and didn't work balls in your court !!!!!!!!

It's a damn mess Chad, a damn mess.

It's so talked about that you can't talk about it without upsetting one party or another.

One thing for sure is that understanding where a solution lay is either non-existent, or smothered by the well-intended - but misguided notions of others.

Do we have a debt of burden to Khouri society? I believe we do. Do they have any obligation to pull their own weight and be masters of their own destiny? Absolutely. Particularly if they want to adopt our style of existence.

I feel that Khouri's have only two choices - there is no viable middle road - as your photos clearly illustrate: either they and we ensure their dignified transition to a European (modern if you like) lifestyle, or we and they ensure that they maintain their identity and dignity through traditional means, as is the case in Arnhem Land.

We have no right to force them to choose either way, but once they have made a decision, I feel we are obliged absolutely to bring about their desired lifestyle. And that of course, means a hell of a lot more effort and awareness from both government and the khouri population.

As far as I'm concerned name-calling and singling out who's right and wrong is a moot and exhausted point.

Kudos to you for putting this on the table.



[edit on 25-3-2010 by mckyle]

reply to post by pieman


Dear pieman
From pieman
“to echo a fairly common aussie sentiment, "if you don't like the way the austrailians live, maybe you should f**k off home."

seems to me like they were getting along just fine for 50,000 years before people with guns forced them off their lands and out of their communities.”

I am sorry it is all my fault, I came to this thread way to late.
Simply because I wanted to say just what you have said.
So sorry again my fault.

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
So what do you think these people need if neither of their halves will accept them or teach them?

What can be done to help them find themselves, both via conventional solutions or even radical/new ones?

Well that is the dilemma we face here, how to help them.

The trouble is not all of them need the same type of help so you can't just throw out a coverall solution.
A lot of them need proper education in westernised living, not just sending the kids to school either, that doesn't teach them domestic issues.

But one of the more serious problems we face is that whole sections of aboriginal society are 3rd and 4th generation welfare recipients and they are quite happy to stay that way. There are numerous programs and incentives for them to better themselves but they just don't want to.

This issue is just too complicated for me to continue here, I've tried several times to write more but I either sound racist or that I'm making excuses for them.

I will say that it is a subject close to me as I have an aboriginal grand daughter, so I am in no way racist and try my best to see things from their point of view.
However I find it hard to be impartial when black kids (under 10) stand in the street and make you drive up the curb to go around them and if you dare complain you get called a white slut.
Or when a drunken black woman comes to your door demanding to see someone you've never heard of and when you tell her she has the wrong house she punches you in the face and tries to force her way in, then once the door is closed and locked, proceeds to smash two front windows, all the while yelling "open the f...ing door you white cu.."
(this happened to me last year)

So yeah, complicated, some need and will accept help others are happy to receive welfare and spend it all on booze.

.

Australian governments have been trying to integrate and remedy these difficulties amongst our indigenous populations for at least 80 years with varying degrees of failures and successes. What I have noticed is however that some tribal groups have done extremely well and are valued members of the greater communities around them, whilst others such as those in the photos have become increasingly destructive to themselves and society in general. For example, many of our private boarding schools (including the most elite) have been providing fee free places, to disadvantaged Aboriginal children since the late 1970's. The governments have also given huge financial and social assistance to those who wish to extend their education post-high school. Our area of Sydney has a hostel where high school children from remote indigenous areas live so that they can attend high school here. These programs are of great assistance and I wish that all the deprived children from isolated areas could be given the same opportunities.

My sister lives near Cairns in North Queensland and says the Aboriginals there are great people, and good workers to boot and are given due respect by locals. This is wonderful to hear as I spent time in that area in 1979 and couldn't believe driving into a town around midday and seeing human bodies strewn all over the ground and roads out cold from the previous nights drinking. This indicates that, like many other areas today, more and more Aboriginals are finding their feet.

The worst areas seem to be the really isolated regions where, if they wish, they can continue to live as their ancestors did, but instead choose self-destruction. My greatest disgust however is with the lack of useful employment in these areas which could be partially rectified, but for government corruption...one town is not allowed to clean up their own rubbish due to contractual arrangements by bureaucrats, even though the supposed contractor never shows. I think this rabbit hole runs very deep, but the tax payers of this country are left ignorant of the true nature of some assistance programs (although we're aware of the massive costs associated with any government contracts here). Aboriginals in positions of financial power have also proven more often than not to be innately corrupt and ultimately destructive to their communities...

The best I can say is that assistance seems best spent when the individual is given the opportunity to fulfill their ambitions by applying for direct financial or social assistance for specified purposes rather than simply pouring huge amounts of money at the group as a whole - new 4WD's each year, free housing and income for no input has done more harm than good and has not helped race relations. This rich kid treatment does nothing but harm to one's character, let alone a community where the damage is multiplied.

reply to post by waycoolsnoopy


Sorry I should have elaborated in the OP

It is an Residual Current Device.

www.victesters.com...

Just thought I would say thanks to all that have replied so far, I'm glad to see this garner some healthy debate with minimal mud slinging.