The social issue no one in Australia wants to talk about

These poor indigenious people are much like the native americans, never really understood by their oppressors. Clumped into groups in out of the way locations so as not to be a problem. You look different, can't speak your ancient lingo. Imagine being of a small minority of "we were here first" soul's dominated by intruders wanting to kill you almost as if it was sport.

reply to post by Chadwickus


I suggest you understand they have experienced an apocalypse.

DO you understand how serious this is? How would ATSers react to a apocalypse they rant about? Just look at this culture and you will see what its like to be post apocalyptic.

How do you want them to be fixed?
To get with the program and become just like us?

Will this make it easier for everyone, if they just become like you.

Hunting and gathering was hard work, being a warrior was hard work. You compare them to your hard work and your achievements.

They spent 60 000 years achieving their 'level' of what it means to be successful and moral in a society. Stop judging them by your level, they think you are a crap warrior, a lame hunter and a damn useless husband and father.
They had their own system to live by, and so amazingly and beautifully. They truly understand they belong to the land, not it them. It was taken from them, and then so was their identity.

Will it make you happier if they stop drinking.
Start working in a call centre
get a mortgage?

You telling me white people don't bash their kids?
That white aren't pedos?
Addicts
Alcoholics?
that a white woman didn't kill her children?
that white men don't bash their wives?

A little more hidden perhaps, or not so heavily scrutinised.

We call them serial killers and criminals if they are white.
When it happens in aboriginal society, we say why cant aborigines be just like us.....well they are being just like us......this lifestyle you find so abhorrent is not theirs, its ours....where do you think they learned to be like this? not from themselves, they were near perfect before we showed up.

Get over yourself and your hard work, and stop judging them by that, and remember how many whites are revolting criminals.

Edit to add chad we should be having this discussion over a beer


[edit on 24-3-2010 by zazzafrazz]

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Don't start getting angry.

I'm not some white trash racist with an agenda, I know full well that every community and race has their bad eggs but using that as an argument against singling out a problem within a specific community is not the way to go, it furthers the ignorance and taboo-like nature of the subject.

It needs to be brought out into the open.

Do you at least agree with that fact?



[edit on 24/3/10 by Chadwickus]

reply to post by Chadwickus


gggaaahhh

then I give up.

You want them to take responsibility for their lives, and yet historically their self governing and right to be self responsible was completely suppressed and not permitted. So is taking responsibility them becoming white cultured? Or are you ok if they go back to their old culture...that way you gotta move......

You edited that part out you wanting to just take for themselves, but my response stands

I'm not angry, I am trying to help you process this differently... be stubborn, I don't care, and that offer over discussing this over a beer is reneged if your gonna play tantrums

Edit to add
Do we need to discuss it like your title says? sure if you wanna discuss the other white criminals, but if you want to talk about the 'aboriginal' issue its not ours to decide by ranting about them, it's just another version of "what do with them?"
They are not our things to play with.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by zazzafrazz]

Terms as defined by Webster's:

Aboriginal: Being the first of it's kind present in a region and often primitive in comparison with more advanced types.

Ab: From -- away --- off --- (think ab-normal).

Origin: A point at which something begins.

Originate: A home origin.

Original: a person of fresh initiative or inventive capacity.

Originality: The power of independent thought or constructive imagination.

Hm. Place "Ab" in front of the above definitions, and you hav a very derogatory term.








[edit on 3/24/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Chadwickus is completely right, the aboriginies need to take responsibility. At what point should we stop spoon feeding them? There are several aborigines at my work n public service who have actually taken the responsibility to get an education and look for a job.

Then you have the others who refuse to do so, who will continue to receive the government hand outs then spend it on drugs and alcohol. These are the ones who continue to blame the government for stealing their land and the issues which happened those years ago.

As a people the adults need to take the responsibility, to teach their children so that they wont have to live in poverty just like they do.

reply to post by Maxxximus187


Then I feel sorry for you.
Enjoy your life of little understanding of the social dynamics in which you exist.

reply to post by zazzafrazz


When I've brought this subject up IRL I either get two responses, neither of them I was particular pleased with.

The first and most common would be along the lines of "nah Eff em the ..... .....!"

Or the second was a blank look of ignorance, then something along the lines of "well we did do some bad things to them in the past"

This is why I decided to bring it up here at ATS, where the majority of members will be non-partisan and I could hopefully get non biased opinions.

You say we have no right to decide what to do with them, but we should have a right to say how we want to help them.

After all it is out tax dollars being used to give them houses, cars, health care and education.

But our tax dollars also house criminals in jail and we have no say over how they are dealt with either, so it's not gonna happen.

What do you think needs to be done?

reply to post by Chadwickus


Chad I have answered your question in my 1st three posts.
I can't make it any clearer.

Pls reread them.

reply to post by zazzafrazz


Sorry but I don't see where you've specifically addressed the question.

Surely you must have some sort of an idea on how this issue can be addressed? Simply saying that white people are just as bad, if not worse is diluting the issue.

Do we just cut all benefits and let them find their own way like the rest of us?

Do we better manage their payouts so that we guarantee that not all their money gets wasted on alcohol?

Do we make them more accountable for damaging government owned property?

Do we bus them all to the middle of Australia and let them live like their ancestors?

Do we just keep on pretending that it isn't actually an issue and point the finger at anyone who dares speak up about it and call them racist or stubborn?

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

Chad I have answered your question in my 1st three posts.
I can't make it any clearer.

Pls reread them.

Where have you stated what YOU think needs to be done. You seem completely ignorant of the fact that has to be something done, the government is trying their best, they have apologised, given them food, shelter, rehabilitation programs.

So, how about you provide a better solution rather than continue your rant on how it is all our fault.

Come on, how long does it take for a person or a society to "get its act together" and / or "get with the program" ............ The only constant is change.

I am sick and tired of indigenous people blaming colonization for all their problems. People are forced to change for reasons of survival every day, and within their lifetimes sometimes many times. What are all you apologist saying, that these people are intellectually or evolutionarily inferior to others and cant change. And before you call me racist its not just a color / racist issue. You can go to Russia or other central European countries and see backward, medieval type thinking disguised as "culture"

I am sick of stubborn, too lazy to change, stupidity being passed off as "culture".

You know what happened when the government came into their communties and tried to stop the child rape, alcohol abuse and drug addiction? People got angry. How does that make any sense? Do they want help or do they want to be left alone to their own devices?

These people weren't born into the time where their people were nomadic tribesman. They were born into the modern world in communities they could have made thrive.
If they care so much about their culture then why do they not create a peaceful community in which they can pass on and celebrate their traditions? It's not like their wouldn't been any support for it in communities that are 75% Aboriginal Australian!
Yet they'd prefer to trash their government provided housing because...?

In my short life of 22 years the close friends I have had were:
-3 white/anglo
-1 Chinese
-2 Aboriginal Australian

I of course have had many other outer circle friends, 4 more were aboriginal.

My girlfriend is Vietnamese.

Obviously I have no issues regarding race or culture. Yet I have been attacked in public 4 times in which the assaults were racially motivated because I am WHITE. Twice was by groups of lebanese people, twice was by aboriginals.
Note: When the lebanese people found out that I have Chilean ancestry they apologized! WTF?

EDIT: I know that the attacks were racially motivated because I knew people who happen to know the attackers. In suburban Sydney everyone knows someone in a gang.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Gehirn]

Hmm you have American Indians and aboriginals and well lets not forget Africa. What do you see when you look at the big picture. I can tell you one thing it is not politically correct but it is the truth. Is it genetics I don't know but something is not the same.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Subjective Truth]

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Hmm you have American Indians and aboriginals and well lets not forget Africa. What do you see when you look at the big picture. I can tell you one thing it is not politically correct but it is the truth. Is it genetics I don't know but something is not the same.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Subjective Truth]

I'd have to say its genetics, you see people in 3rd world countries which are all for help and charity work.. the people work hard to go to school, get an education even though their government cannot help them..

then you get the others which have it all handed to them then they just refuse to comply .. its frustrating when we see people still blaming the government.

Chadwick

I could go to Balga, Thornlie, Langford ect and take some pretty photos of white people living in squallor. White people who have had all the chances to make it in society. What is their excuse.

Aboriginals have only been classed as human for less than 50 years - society wasn't built in a day, or 100 years, you treat a class of people like crap for a very long time and when you finally catch up to the real world and fix your mistake, you don't fix the mistake you push it to one side. And blame the past for which you are a product of.

Imagine if you were an aboriginal - how would your mindset be - seriously.

Just because your parents were lucky - doesn't mean that everyone else were - heck I bet your mum was born HUMAN.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
Typical reaction from slaves towards those who refused to be slaves (forcefully brought to ORDER). Their way of life was destroyed and they were forced into this trash-producing civilization where they have no other choice but to rot!

That's right, they are so incapable of living any other way that we must be to blame. They are just that pathetic and incapable, right?

You people make my skin crawl...

Originally posted by pieman

well how about you just give them back the land and allow them to revert to their stone age ways if that's what they want to do.

you really think the evidence suggests the western way of living is better?

WHat, and give you people more ammunition by way of saying "Look how those white scumbags treat the poor Aborigines, they dont even give them houses to live in. They force them to live on the land."

Because every time an effort is made to fix the problems (no alcohol, making sure they send their kids to school, food stamps) we get canned for it because we treat them so 'wrongly'.

They are given cars that they leave on the side of the road once it runs out of petrol, they are given housing like the ones you see in the images Chad posted, which are left in ruins and then we get the blame because we don't do enough.

BUT then you say we should let them revert back to stoneage people.

Oh you have all the answers, why don't you come over and sort it out, Im sure it's easy.

A proud people do not want handouts, they want to be listened to, how about we ask rather than tell them how to live their lives and then see if we can fix some issues.

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
I'm surprised the govt hasn't extended this to other centres of indigenous population (like Fitzroy Crossing)...

are you?
it seems to me that every time an indigenous people pull themselves together they start doing crazy stuff like looking for their land back or for their culture to be respected, the government have a strong interest in keeping them drunk and downtrodden.

Oh?

Care to provide any evidence of this?

Or perhaps one of the anti-Australian people starring your posts can share it with us?