The American way. The Right way. THE ONLY WAY!

OK this has to be about the funniest and saddest thread on the US I've read so far this year.

Controlled US Bashing is more like it.

I've read many MANY here make some naive statements about what they think they know about the US. Plenty of them getting huge amounts of stars and praise. They throw in their perceived knowledge of the US and get little jabs in here and there and then toss in a little praise.

We have posters who talk about our "Movies and Comic books, Music or TV" thinking that they knew America from them or that they "Knew or know" some Americans or that they have a "Couple of American friends. OR They like Americans but hate the Government.

I'll actually agree with all of the above and accept the fact if that is all you are really judging the US by then yes it's a horribly backwards country. I'd dislike it as well.

But...

A collective self proliferating opinion based on such a small cross section of the US population is very dangerous and naive. When somebody makes a positive statement about their country of course there is going to be a differing of opinions it's human nature. However when an American posts something positive about the US many here see it simply as an opportunity to point out all that the US has done wrong. Thinking they are educating the Ignorant American who does not know the REAL world. [Getting a hundred Stars]

Honestly many here in the US just don't care about what's going on in Eastern Europe or South West Mongolia. etc. Why? Too many bills they have their lives packed with responsibilities. It seems to me that many will see that as ignorance while to many it's just life they get up and rush the kids to school then take off to go to work then they have to pick the kids up and rush them to soccer or dance then off to Karate afterwords bring them home for supper then if they have time they'll spend some quality time with their kids before it's bedtime by the time that's all done it's like 11:00 pm and they are exhausted and at 6:00 AM the routine begins again.

Others have plenty of time to understand the world.

When IMO an American feels that we are Different. I can understand why.


[I said Different not Better]
Which brings up the whole America is different scenario...

When that opinion is posted it usually gets slammed. Then by the very same posters who slam it they will start pointing out the Differences, thinking they are again "Educating the Ignorant American" PLEASE Need I remind everyone to remember that the US has a disproportionate amount of pubescent teenagers online. There is ignorance in those numbers.

S & F

PEACE


Slay

P.S.
To all my fellow ATS members please realize that some of the biggest ATS critics of America are American.



[edit on 26-3-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by intrepid


Well, while I sure can understand your point of view, and your right to it, intrepid, I do not sink to the level of questioning someone else's country, or their rights.

I can only speak to those actions I have committed to though and I will not defend anyone else.

I have zero issues, with Canada, or any other country for that matter.

And as a matter of fact, I complain, whine, and bitch about America, more so than most American's, or least that I know of because of my own knowledge of just how stupid, ignorant, and insane our politicians are, and how they never listen.

I can speak of my actions, of speaking to the information, facts, and events within America.

As well, I can speak to the knowledge of the information, facts, and events of the United Nations, as well as just about any country, because I know, understand, and follow policy, procedure, and protocol, so while I cannot speak to anyone else, neither will I defend anyone else, but myself and my actions.

Personally, I believe the United States should pull out of the United Nations, a bureaucracy.

America and our politics are full enough of bureaucracy, and needless stupidity.

In Washington D.C. and through our Government.

So, having said that, I will apologize, to you and any other country for that matter, if my actions have offended anyone, because I am no ignorant American who claims my country is better than anyone else's, because it is not.

But, to each their own, when I speak on ATS and elsewhere, I know of what I speak.

When the Bilderberg Group attacked and tried to dismantle Canada and her Government, I defended your country's rights to have an established form of Government.

Whether I agree with your thoughts on cannabis or not, I speak of it, to the effect of knowing the policy, both foreign and domestic, of America, and the duality of that policy in that it is a false policy, through the use of the C.I.A. to ship it in, and the D.E.A. to catch it, never having ever imbibed myself, I could care less.

Corruption.

If we're going to have a War on Drugs, go after the source, or leave it alone.

That's a policy disagreement I have with my own Government, not yours.

And it has zero to do with decriminalization nor desire for legalization.

I say stop wasting my damn money on a "war" that is fake, period.

Whether I agree with any of your policies as far as Canada is concerned, I speak to the knowledge I have of my country, period, and I speak to those of other country's I know, as a means only to compare and contrast, only, nothing more.

My country, is no better than yours, all countries are equal, as far as I am concerned.

None deserve any other special treatment, all are equal, and our Government's are to blame, not those of us on an International Forum on conspiracies.

reply to post by SLAYER69


SLAYER69, I have known you for quite some time, probably as long as I have known intrepid.

All I have to say is speak to those facts you know, about us, and the U.S., because I do not believe intrepid began this thread as a United States bashing thread.

However, the mentality of those who contribute to this website, does not allow for a balanced method of sharing ideas, at all time, as it should, as we all know.

You know me, I am an isolationist, separate us from everyone else.

It has nothing to do with thinking I am or my country is better than anyone else.

It has to do with instead being tired of the illegal immigration, I fully encourage, legal immigration, please come here to America, legally, if you do.

Otherwise, get the Hell out, you are an illegal alien, a criminal.

It has to do with us needing to fix our country and not wanting to pay every other country to fix theirs, as our Government often sees the need to do through aid, money, food, military force, you name it, we give it, and we give it whether the American citizens want our Government to or not, I say no.

I do not want my country to act as an International Police Force.

I want my country to eliminate needless waste, stop harboring criminals, stop allowing pedophiles, rapists, and other predators, including the financial predators who steal our funds in Washington D.C. to walk free.

Pull all of our troops out of all the military bases overseas and come home.

And clean up our mess instead of telling others how to live their God-damned lives.

Let those who bash America bash America, if they do not live here, they do not know.

Let those who bash America bash America, if they do not have our corruption, they do not know.

Let those who bash America bash America, if they want us out, I say pull us out.

Originally posted by intrepid
OK, before anyone goes off on the OP or the title, read the thread first please.

As a Canadian and a concerned neighbor, I've seen some really frightening trends on the board lately from our southern brothers. Anything that is contrary to the status quo is politicized and "rights" are thrown around without thinking, "Hmm, maybe this would be an idea worth listening to." Even when the topic is about another country.

My country has been attacked of late for the following reasons:

Health Care
Free speech issues
Our economy
Social issues(abortion, Gay rights, etc)

Just to name the easy ones.

My question is this, if you take the politics and patriotism out of these issues, what's wrong with seeing another point of view? What sets you guys off on a shoot and destroy mission anything that it isn't OUR" way?

There are better ways of doing things. That's evolution of man. If you miss it isn't that a bad thing? You won't see it in your media. Be thankful for the Net and places like ATS. We're international, many different ideas. Start looking. Start thinking.

Because we are taught they we are the parent country and you children don't know any better. Everyone has their own way of interpretation, its how that interpretation effects those surrounding them that determines if it is right or wrong. Pride for ones country is fine in uniting people together to work and live, radical pride will burn it into the ground. Some people just need to get their heads out of the sand!

As another non-American (I'm Canadian.), I have to say it has been a great experience to post on ATS and to read the opinions of so many Americans of all backrounds and levels of education. It has lead me to appreciate our great neighbour to the south in ways that I never would have otherwise.

The simple existence of this site is a tribute to America.

Americans are different. Canadians are not just "Americans in the attic." We are different. The harsh Canadian climate has been decisive in making us less independant in the American manner, not so eager to set off alone in the world. We in this cold cold country know that we need to look out for each other, needed our ties with Great Britain and need our crazy buddies south of the border.

The Canadian auto industry and armaments industry rearmed the British army after Dunkirk. Canadians sheltered stranded Americans after 9/11 and our troops are part of the effort in Afghanistan.

Americans are great at pitching in too, but it's a Canadian way of life on all levels and in all areas of endeavour. Canadians are like the American Seabees of WW2, "gung ho", pull together.

I admire and appreciate American individualism, but at this lattitude, it can't be done. It has it's pitfalls too, even stateside. I hope that America is able to negotiate those pitfalls. Obama's health care legislation is a step toward taking some of the rough edges off the individualistic American way of life.

Best wishes to America and all Americans.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by ipsedixit]

reply to post by SLAYER69


All true, Slayer. Today, while at work, I was thinking along those very lines, of how others obtain their information, about us.

Seldom does Hollywood present us, in a flattering manner. (Being from the southern part of the country, "Deliverance" comes to mind) Seldom does the news media (other than local news outlets) present stories that are not sensationalistic.

I guess stereotypes are human nature and there's, really, nothing any of us can do about that. No matter in what part of the world we reside.

reply to post by SLAYER69



I can see a few have read your comment and agreed.

I have lived in numerous states and cities in this country. My State of Wisconsin, St. Louis Massachusetts, Minneapolis Minnesota, Chicago Illinois, Fresno California, Marion Ohio, Merced California. These I spent at least one year in. I have also lived in a couple more states and in a couple more cities. I have traveled through several states in the southeast.

That being said, how many people did I actually meet and converse with. Now, I use to manage 100's of people in my position as a Site Super. I have gone to several different colleges. I have driven people in one job I had in college, where I worked as a runner, file clerk, handyman in a Auto Dealership. Sometimes in that position I would interact with 100 people a day. Another position as a gas station clerk I would maybe interact with up to 200 per day. etc etc etc.

All that being said, how many people have I met in my life of 40+ years. 10k, 20k, 30k. That is an unkown. But one thing I can say, I did not know them. I did not understand WHO they were. I find it almost abhorrent when anyone can assume they know a nation of individuals.

We are not our country. We are not our government. We cannot be put into a box and quantified.

People like to paint a group of people with wide brushes. They like to label them.

Labels and the Boxes they put us in.

From that thread-

You have been placed in a box your whole life. When you were in school they separated you into different boxes and you put yourself into boxes(clichés). You were trained not to want to get out of your box. The box keeps you safe, it keeps you warm, and it keeps you sane. People are afraid to get out of their boxes now, they do not even want to know they are in a box or that the box exists.

Right now, I vow to try not to label others and I also vow to think outside that box. It is a scary proposition, I know, when I started here I thought there was no damn way I have liberal leanings. I was wrong, and thanks to a couple people here, I was able to see outside my box and it was not so scary.

Thanks Slayer for the invite.

This whole comment was pretty much to give a reiteration of Slayer's.

I know I can come off as hot headed. So can many of my countrymen. We are a passionate people, I think. We do come from all nations of the world. We are a rich and diverse people. We tend to be more individualistic, I THINK, this being my observation. This is the only observation I can apply to the majority, I have met. Other than that, like I have said, we do not fit into one box. We are not the collective. We are individuals.

I am me. You are you.

reply to post by endisnighe


Thanks for pointing that out, we'd have never guessed it's stupid to generlize without you two. We've now been repaired.

But may I say in response, all that may be true but your nation still holds the highest amount of arrogance the planet contains under one flag. One flag which is so often raised in a way in which spoils the grand old interwebs.

It's unfortunate, but true.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I've seen you come out in the past in thread concerning gun law and absolutely ridicule other nations for not wanting guns, in that thread I stated I believed you to have been an excellent participant on ATS.

I can't help but see double standard and denial in your attempted defense. Why take it personally, you not the same as the bad eggs being mentioned are you? or are you?

reply to post by Sed Non Credo


I would appreciate if you just went around to the people's home pages and just skim through some of the threads. You may find that MANY of us here on ATS believe that the government is out of control.

Is this what you are angry about. I just do not understand your vehemence towards the US in general.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Sed Non Credo

 

I am all for pulling our troops out of all the countries from the around the world, locking our borders from immigration, and while we are at it sending large numbers of immigrants home who have failed to adopt our culture.

I'm meant to care about you wanting or not wanting to do that why? That's not what this thread is about...

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Sed Non Credo

 

Most of our foreign aid money only seems to go to third world warlords helping them maintain brutal control over their populations, so we should end all of this charity, and let these people work out their own problems.

Very valid point, we are guilty of doing the same even though we should perhaps focus on infrastructure. But again, that's another topic.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Sed Non Credo

 

Ah, but most people on the planet don't harbor your prejudices, and hatred, and envy. Most people in third world countries are the victims of people, who are probably very similar to yourself.

Where on earth did that one come from? Lost me matey. No real prejudices from me, just discussing what I see. An overwhelming amount of arrogance from citizens of the US that spoil the nations name in the eyes of many.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Sed Non Credo

 

Where I live I am surrounded by immigrants. Their attitudes are nothing like yours. They think the U.S. is a great place to live, with a culture and attitude that is far superior to the nations of their origins, and plenty are from Europe as well. They like America, and Americans. I have also traveled abroad, and found that most people in most countries extend a great deal of respect and towards me because I am an American. When I return to the U.S., it is easy to see how much better we have it.

Firstly, I never said it wasn't a great place I can in actual fact hold my hands up and say it is one of my favourite nations on the globe both for the build and people.

And yes ofcourse people extend a great deal of respect to you, your probably a nice person. We're not talking about you though, we're discussing the implications of perhaps a minority. Your again throwing the ball way outside the park pumpkin.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Sed Non Credo

 

Most people around the globe dream of being able to live in America. There are countries who have lotteries, where the prize is a VISA enabling them to go live in the U.S.. I wish that everywhere you go on Earth, you could have the same quality of lifestyle that we enjoy here in the U.S., the same level of justice. While our system has lots of problems, things are even worse, in most places far worse, than they are here in the U.S..

Don't we all wish that the world was as well off as the West, but that is not used by as many others as a claim to superiority as it is by some of your nationals. But again, you just trying to defend yourself but almost proving our point... some of you are overly concerned about flaunting what you've got. When the truth is, it isn't anything special of unique in the slightest.

This subject is about the board, and the way in which some Americans act. Most of the time, due to the persons posting are speaking from the richer nations in the world. So to most people, 'your' flaunting comes across as arrogance.

Sinking in?

reply to post by endisnighe


You've got me all wrong, it's probably not directed at you. It is directed at the amount of arrogance on the boards (the topic of this thread) which overwhelmingly comes for the States.

Yes it's everywhere, yes your a good nation, yes I'm proud of my nation too but it's the way some that are perhaps less articulate than yourself choose to show their patriotism. Boards to often, as the OP mentions result in Americans shooting others down seemingly with a distinct sense of superiority, which is viewed by many as pure arrogance.

I've tried throughout all my posts in this thread to make it clear that I'm not tarnishing all Yanks with the same brush. Just pointing to the overwhelming amount produced from American users, which is in great disparity with how much other nationals produce the same misguided patriotism.


Edit: It's like me, I'm hardly the brightest spark to have ever walked earth. Not greatly articulate either. But still I rarely stoop to showing a feeling of superiority. It's just, I dunno, tasteless I guess and extremely annoying. So much so it has at times made me feel (almost not literally) as if I hate all Americans.

[edit on 25-3-2010 by Sed Non Credo]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I think it is important to separate out the general attitudes of US citizens as individuals from the attitudes and actions of our government. There is a difference. I can see how other countries and people perceive the actions of the U.S government as having it one way only. I too have this criticism with regard to our foreign policy.

I don't think it is fair or accurate to judge the attitude of the average US citizen from the statements of our politicians or the "talking heads" type. I am thinking of Ann Coulter here in that the OP is Canadian and she was making a splash over there in a not good way. The politicians and the talking heads get paid to shout our their opinions from the tree tops. Most
U.S. citizens that I know don't sit around thinking of how to rule the world or instruct other countries. They are looking to get by.

reply to post by Sed Non Credo


You have to remember, I do not think some of the posters are even people. They are an IP address with different shifts.

I have seen on some boards, vitriol and things that could not be coming from normal people. Those type people cannot be the norm. The ones that are that way, have to try and control things. It almost seems like a power trip to them.

I like to say they have developed TPTB syndrome.

Remember, pride is a sin in many eyes. Of course I get a little hot headed once in awhile, so do others. Some may not be spiritual, so if they do not believe in the sin thing, what about respect. No harm to me, just wanted to tell you the strong silent type are the majority. That is why you do not hear them. Also, smile, people will wonder what you are up to.

Anyway peace and God bless.

reply to post by endisnighe


You go a long way to reaffirming what I believe mate. A shame there aren't more alike in every nation, I hope I haven't offended you in any way as well.

I just wish I was articulate enough to portray what I'm getting at, but it'd probably be a lost cause if I could anyway. And well handled mate, I can actually taek some lessons myself from the way in which you dealt with this.

All the best.
N

there will always be disinformation specialists working round the clock anywhere truth surfaces to try to derail the progress of expossing tyrrany. from the agents who will try to undermine moral by saying "its over. you cant win.", to the agent who, when faced with an enormous wealth of evidence, will still say "nope. I checked it all out and youre dead wrong" or "that just a conspiracy theory, put on your tin foil hat." all attempts at disinfo can only be mildly successful and will only flourish short-term. the truth will always prevail in the end.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
OK this has to be about the funniest and saddest thread on the US I've read so far this year.

Controlled US Bashing is more like it.

I've read many MANY here make some naive statements about what they think they know about the US. Plenty of them getting huge amounts of stars and praise. They throw in their perceived knowledge of the US and get little jabs in here and there and then toss in a little praise.

We have posters who talk about our "Movies and Comic books, Music or TV" thinking that they knew America from them

I'm not sure whether you meant me here or not as I don't remember anyone else talking about these things on this thread. If there was, genuine apologies. However, I should point out that all these things up until the last decade or so created a positive view of America - not a negative view.

As I stated in another post in this thread. For those of us that haven't visited America or lived there, then yes, our own exposure is going to be through media - and often, in the English-speaking world - that media is going to be through American media. The English-speaking world is dominated by the American film industry (not because American films are necessarily better, although there's great American films) but simply because the industry is bigger - think of the way Americans complain about mom and pop stores closing in the face of Walmart boxes. So, if our view of America is anyway wrong or distorted when viewed through the media, then it's actually, ironically, America's fault. I should also point out that most of our real news outlets carries a lot of international affairs content, including American news too and, generally, I'd have thought that to be fairly balanced.

It's worth reminding you, right or wrong, as much as American gets disseminated and opined upon by people who aren't really familiar with the place, it doesn't stop Americans doing likewise. Consider the fact that, within the online Anglosphere, Americans are best represented through sheer weight of numbers, then you've just got more people that happen to be American talking about countries they're fairly ignorant about than any other country. None of it right but, unfortunately for you, where the population size of America sometimes works in your favour, here it works against you. Whilst there are idiots from every country under the sun online in the Anglosphere, there are proportionally more idiots online in the Anglosphere from America.

A collective self proliferating opinion based on such a small cross section of the US population is very dangerous and naive. When somebody makes a positive statement about their country of course there is going to be a differing of opinions it's human nature. However when an American posts something positive about the US many here see it simply as an opportunity to point out all that the US has done wrong. Thinking they are educating the Ignorant American who does not know the REAL world.

I think the problem here, Slayer, is that you're only just noticing what others have noticed about comments about their own countries for a long time. People of all countries generalise about the other , whatever the other actually is. Why does this appear to become more problematic when done by Americans? Possibly a few reasons. When it's coupled with the fairly unique patriot culture that America has and the fairly aggressive 'might is right' stance that a lot of the vocal Americans have, it does become a different sort of generalising as often it does seem loaded with a 'better than you' context - perhaps even when it's not meant to be like that.

[Getting a hundred Stars]

Traditionally, on here, the voting block has tended to be very pro-America, certainly until fairly recently. In the past, I've seen very content-light posts get a lot of stars in threads purely because it contained a 'me too! usa #1! Go USA!!' type sentiment.

Honestly many here in the US just don't care about what's going on in Eastern Europe or South West Mongolia. etc. Why? Too many bills they have their lives packed with responsibilities. It seems to me that many will see that as ignorance while to many it's just life they get up and rush the kids to school then take off to go to work then they have to pick the kids up and rush them to soccer or dance then off to Karate afterwords bring them home for supper then if they have time they'll spend some quality time with their kids before it's bedtime by the time that's all done it's like 11:00 pm and they are exhausted and at 6:00 AM the routine begins again.

Others have plenty of time to understand the world.

This doesn't make any sense. You appear to be saying that Americans aren't ignorant, it's just that they're just busy and preoccupied with bills, work, children? Do you not think others outside America have jobs and families?

When IMO an American feels that we are Different. I can understand why.

[I said Different not Better]

Ironically, we're all "different", Slayer. Americans and America aren't unique in this.

[edit on 26-3-2010 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by Merriman Weir


I have to admit even tough I disagree with almost everything you write you put out a solid argument and it is not personal. That is very cool.