Now you are FORCED to buy health insurance, what will you eliminate to afford it?

Originally posted by gwydionblack
I don't have to worry about it. I am already about to default on my credit cards (my bad) and am only managing to maintain my car payment and car insurance, not to mention the rent for my small business.

Owning my own business I realize that they will try to take the "fines" for my not having health care via my taxes. Therefore, I will no longer be filing taxes with the federal government.

Eventually they will try to take me to court I am sure, however, come that point I will be among probably millions of American's and myself, along with most of them, will not let it happen.

Listen up people. This ATS'er speaks the truth. Taxation without representation. It is against the LAW.

Come and bleepin' take it!

Originally posted by lpowell0627

Originally posted by mblahnikluver

Originally posted by SantaClaus
Hospitals are REQUIRED to treat you whether you are insured or not.

Really says who? Tell that to Cape Canaveral Hospital who TURNED me away because I had no insurance. I was having a huge allergic reaction to a dog where my face was swollen and I was having trouble breathing. Yeah they really helped me. As soon as they took my blood pressure and temperature they asked for my insurance and I told them I didnt have any and they said they couldnt see me UNLESS I paid a fee of 300 dollars UP FRONT.

If true, you could be rich on the settlement you would get for a lawsuit. Of course, you are obviously still alive so perhaps it wasn't considered life-threatening and didn't warrant an emergency room visit.

Federal law gives you the right to emergency care, regardless of your ability to pay. Here are the details on how you should be handled at the hospital.

Fortunately, a federal law passed in 1986 to prohibit a practice commonly known as "patient dumping" gives you the right to emergency care regardless of your ability to pay. The federal law applies to hospitals that participate in Medicare -- and that includes most hospitals in the United States.

In a nutshell, the federal patient-dumping law entitles you to three things: screening, emergency care and appropriate transfers. A hospital must provide "stabilizing care" for a patient with an emergency medical condition. The hospital must screen for the emergency and provide the care without inquiring about your ability to pay.

Link: articles.moneycentral.msn.com...

It would be helpful if people actually knew the laws of this country before trying to discuss how terrible they are.

First of all it IS true and I couldnt breath!!! So yes when I am having trouble breathing I go to the ER! I never had an allergic reaction to a dog before and it freaked me out. Anywhere I touched or itched I got hives, so YES again I went to the ER! I KNOW the laws of this country so dont insult my intelligence thank you. I offered to make payments like I did where I use to live when I had to go to the ER for food poisoning and they made arrangements, this place wouldnt even talk to me about it. Instead they handed me pamphlets about insurance I cant afford and assistance I DONT qualify for. You have no idea how hard AND expensive it is in FL to get medical help if you dont have insurance.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


I pay $36 out of my paycheck weekly already, I can guarantee that this new tax for "free" healthcare, will be less then what I already pay monthly. If I'm wrong you can tell me then but I doubt it will be.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by NoJoker13]

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire

 

It might cost something but it's right.

If you have the world's biggest economy you can't have people without health-care...

I am an Aussie and am recovering from follow up surgery right now.
I have had emergency surgery two years ago and repairs last week...
...and there were no direct costs to me...
...all paid by my taxes paid over thirty years of work.

Health care should be available on the basis of needs not whether you can pay.

...America turned a moral corner today and I am proud of you.

for us... it's not.... free.... please.... understand.... our.... concern....
2nd line

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


How about we stop paying taxes? Then I could afford healthcare insurance for my family.

reply to post by daddio


I wouldn't know if I was a trust either way. I am just a simple businessman attempting to do my trade in a world that would not hire a person fresh out of college. I enjoy being my own boss and can't really see changing it in the future.

I shall check into the 'trust' issue. Thanks.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by gwydionblack]

Originally posted by Silverado292
reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire

 

I'm destroyed from the military and have to survive on $254.00 a month, the person I'm caring for gets a little more for SSI. We're already cut back to the bone. He's not going to pay and neither am I, at this point I hope they come knocking to collect, it'll be there last day on the job I #ing promise that. I'm also not paying taxes anymore either, there's no point in typing anymore since it'll just be snip snip snip.

Glad to hear this. This is the line in the sand people. I have never encouraged this type of behavior. But, the past 9 years I have seen some of the most messed up # take place. Enough is enough.

Originally posted by Thoreau1
reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire

 

I don't have to worry about how I'm going to be paying for healthcare.. I have to worry about how I am going to pay for the fines because I'm not going to be paying for healthcare.

S-n-F

That's what my husband said.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire


Well, considering that I've maintained health insurance for me and/or my family over a decade, I will continue to do so. I'll also point out that while I was more or less pissing away that money as it compares to the costs of what little medical care I have required, I have more than made back every dime I've ever paid for health insurance simply in what was covered of my wife's various surgeries and the birth of our daughter.

So how do I expect this bill to impact me? It probably won't. However, if it does actually accomplish what it is trying to do, I look forward to a nominal, inconsequential drop in my insurance premium sometime in the next decade.

The only people who are pissed off about this are those who are not paying for insurance now.

I am yet to have anyone without insurance tell me how they would go about paying for a major surgical procedure if they or their loved ones needed it. Anyone who says they would go to the hospital (which can not turn you away) and then "stick it to the hospital" on the bill, should give it up and realize that they are already using B.S. gerry-rigged socialized medicine already and get on board with a single payer system.

Originally posted by M0n0lyth
for us... it's not.... free.... please.... understand.... our.... concern....
2nd line

I can forgive a non-US citizen for not knowing that. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people in our own country are going to find that out the hard way themselves.

This is going to be devastating to the working class citizens who have no company provided health insurance. They have no disposable income as it is, but Congress has just forced them to pay thousands of dollars per year to the private health insurance industry.

Oh well. I guess they can all default on their mortgages instead and go live in tent cities.

I invite you all to get yourselves informed first before adding new fairy tales
to the chaos of assumptions already posted here.

Quote genuine details and figures, and give examples.

I like the argument of "This will cut the deficit by X billion $$$."

Oh yes, it sure will. Assuming people are actually paying for it and all of the taxes along with it (and taxes for not accepting the plan). Some people will be able to afford this, but some will not. I currently do not have health insurance because I cannot afford it. If I can't afford it now, I won't be able to afford it then. I guess they will cut my refund on my tax return the next year after this goes into effect. Whatever...

the British NHS is not what it used to be since Thatcher sold it, but I can still turn up at ANY hospital and get INSTANT care for free.

Go in with a broken ankle or wrist, you will wait 3/4/5 hours to be seen, but you will be seen.

The prioratise here. You walk in on deaths door you get seen instantly.

Its everyones human right to get free medical care.

Well done USA.

I hope the poor people in your country benefit.
this is why labour introduced the NHS here a few decades ago.

reply to post by shauny


Did you read any of the post?

Poor people in this country do not go without health care,

My grand kids are on Medicaid, and guess what , there isn't a doctor in this town that will see them, they don't take new patients, so they still have to go to the free clinic,

I don't have health care because my husband and I fall through the cracks, I am sixty years old and haven't been to a doctor since 1981.

I blame the doctors and insurance companies for making health-care benefits unaffordable.

I could go on but whats the point?

reply to post by mkross1983


Well, please tell me what part of the constitution was broken. If it was...and that's a far stretch...then you have nothing to worry about, as the SCOTUS will take care of any unconstitutionality.

My poll, well It's CNN.com, not MSNBC.

This is what I got in my email concerning the health care bill.

Shock To NBC this Morning
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:56:07 -0700


THIS IS A MUST READ….. THESE ARE ACTUAL PAGES FROM THE HEALTH BILL AND BELIEVE ME, IT WILL SCARE YOU TO DEATH! GET ON THE PHONE AND EMAIL THE SENATORS AND HOUSE MEMBERS. An OPTION to DIE from the
government? The government will dictate when you will die?

This letter appeared in the Indianapolis Star (which is owned by the same people who own the
Arizona Republic) and was sent to a very popular Indiana Senator. This just goes to show everyone what pressure these Democrats are currently under, so continue to let them know how you feel about the healthcare bill.

An Indianapolis doctor's letter to Sen. Bayh about the Bill (Note: Dr. Stephen E. Frazer, MD
practices as an anesthesiologist in Indianapolis, IN. Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh. Feel free to copy it and send it around to all other representatives. -- Stephen Fraser

Senator Bayh,

As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the health care
bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by
the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the
patient-physician relationship. The very idea that the government will
dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in
designing a health care system that works for all. Every
physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our health care system,
but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a
disaster if passed.



I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following
> troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe
that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow
citizens.

Page 22 of the HC
Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that
self-insure!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC Bill:
THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE
that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC Bill:
YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Page 42 of HC Bill:
The Health Choices Commissioner will choose
your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC Bill:
HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Page 58 HC Bill:
Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24:
Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)

Page 65 Sec 164:
Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC Bill:
Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill:
Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill:
Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translators for illegal aliens.)

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18:
The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill:
Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)

Page102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill:
Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)

Page 124 Lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill:
Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.

Page 145 Line 15-17:
An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)

Page 126 Lines 22-25:
Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees AND their families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)

Page 149 Lines 16-24:
ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)

Page 150 Lines 9-13:
A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill:
Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) (Like always)

Page 195 HC Bill:
Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC:
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!) ( a 'fee' instead)

Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill:
Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill:
Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)

Page 253 Line 10-18:
The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)

Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145:
TREATMENT AT CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151:
The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).



Page 298 Lines 9-11:
Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 Lines 13-20:
PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)

Page 317-318 Lines 21-25, 1-3:
PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)

Page 321 Lines 2-13:
Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)

Page 335 Lines 16-25 Pg 336-339:
The Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)

Page 341 Lines 3-9:
The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)

Page 354 Sec 1177:
The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191:
The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)

Page 425 Lines 4-12:
The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)

Page 425 Lines 17-19:
The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And
it's mandatory!)

Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3:
The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called
'assisted suicide.') (Sounds like Soylent Green to me.)

Page 427 Lines 15-24:
The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)

Page 429 Lines 1-9:
An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12:
An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?)

Page 429 Lines 13-25:
The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)

Page 430 Lines 11-15:
The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)

Page 469:
Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)

Page 489 Sec 1308:
The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

Page 494-498:
Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.

Senator,
I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, if you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor-patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.
Respectfully,
Stephen E. Fraser, MD

I will not purchase health insurance. Nor will I pay the fine. I can not nor would I encourage anyone to support an immoral law. To support an immoral law only promotes and perpetuates it. I am going to encourage everyone who is against it, to not comply and demand that the government enforce the laws as it stands. If all of those who are against it, do such, it would stop the government in its tracks, as it can not handle a mass influx of such. By promoting peaceful civil discourse, it will force the government to react, and to keep reacting. I am also giving my support to those who are taking this to court to sue the federal government in court.

reply to post by whitewave



Thank you posting that I read it the other day, apparently no one is paying attention.
two lines

[edit on 123131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire

 

I do not think this Issue is totally settled yet . There will be a massive outrage against this Bill and challenges to it's Constitutionality by Activist Groups and State Legislators before it will ever become the Law of the land . For now , I will just go on with my life as usual , and I think most Americans out there will do the same .

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Zanti Misfit]

Yes and when they do just go on as usual, more legislation cutting deeper into our rights and our personal life will continue on .....

..... Until all resemblance of FREEDOM is gone and then ......

..... and ONLY THEN .....

..... Will the PEOPLE STAND UP, TAKE UP ARMS and TAKE THEIR COUNTRY BACK ... !!!

The days of the 2 PARTY SYSTEM are over. It's time to strip the country of its political parties and make people who run for public office, serve everyone in the public trust, not lobbyists and corporations and their ill conceived agenda's.

It is time to push all SOCIALISTS out in the ocean to swim with the sharks and hunker down in Davy Jones's Locker !

[edit on 3/22/2010 by Evisscerator]