Hey You... Yeah, you! The one complaining about the Healthcare Reform Bill...

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


First off... This Bill is bad... Nothing good can ever come of it... Nothing good ever comes from government. And while they profess with their plattitudes that it is for the people (every politician champions the people while screwing them over) it is a scam designed to bilk the already over worked American middle class of whatever savings they had left after Wallstreet, and their employees in Washington, destroyed them last year. And so as to add insult to injury.. Here we go again. First Washington helped Wallstreet defraud and fleece the middle class with the dotcom scam, then the realestate loan scam perpetrated upon us mainly by Goldmansachs cronies within the Clinton, Bush, and now Obama administrations, and now they are handing us all over to one of the shadiest industries ever invented.

Cries of "people just can't afford health insurance," and "millions of Americans go without coverage every year," should be met with the insurance company fraudsters being locked up, like the Bernie Madoffs that they are. Instead this Bill will only add billions of dollars to their coffers and millions of more suckers to their ponzi schemes.

Not only does it create a new bloated beauracracy for the middle class to carry around like a lead weight, but it now gives license for the IRS.S. to chase anyone down with machine guns that refuses to buy an overpriced health insurance scam. Great! Just what we needed.. another excuse for the Nazi IRS.S. to steal from, harrass, and terrorize the American people. Yes, folks.. Check out other threads here on ATS that discuss the inner workings of this bill that will be enforced in large part by the IRS.

What was this Bill really about? Creating more power for an already bloated Federal Government, and making the insurance industry that much richer, forcing people to carry outrageous health insurance scams that can't afford it, at the point of a gun. It's the same old song and dance that has been going on for over a century now... Washington and its employers, the giant multinational corporate monolopies, get fat and happy on the backs of the middle class and the poor.

What did we need Washington to do? Regulate the huge insurance scam industry that was created by Washington in the 70's for their REAL employers, the insurance and banking mobsters. Get the insurance industry to deal honestly and fairly by eliminating much of the fraud that is inherently built into such a system. It's kind of like trying to make lawyers and politicians (usually the same thing) respectable.

This bill does a few good things, like making the insurance companies carry those with preexisting illnesses, but the bad far out weighs the good. They could have just kicked the insurance industry in the pants and made them conduct themselves as though they were honest businessmen, instead of cowardly con men, but instead they chose to kick the American people in the teeth, and make the insurance fat cats that much fatter.

But I knew this day was coming... I knew that Obama would eventually get it passed, if he had to kill and replace every memeber of Congress, because of what my employee did just this month. They are going to nothing but part time employment, so they can get out of offering benefits to their workers. That's what every company will have to do eventually, because of the extra costs that they will incur from the passage of this bill toward the health coverage of their employees. It's already started, and it will be coming to everyone very soon. My employer seemed to know that this Bill would pass, and was making preparations for it months ago, and just so happened to impliment these preparations the same month that this Bill passes. Either they had some inside info or they've been visiting Miss Cleo. That should tell you right there that this thing is a scam.

Why was Obama so intent on passing this Bill, at the detriment of himself, and his party in the upcoming elections (his approval ratings have plummeted, and the Dems will likely lose several seats in Congress?) Because he was told to ram this thing down our throats at the latest Bilderburg meeting. Yes, the world banksters got together and told him to get it passed or else, and like a good little goon, that's exactly what he did. He's a figure head and nothing more, just like every President that has ever sat in the Oval Office. They do what they are told by Goldmansachs and the rest of the Wallstreet cronies that mysteriously get assembled in their cabinets, and nothing more. Do you actually think that this Bill was Obama's? It was written long before Obama was ever considred Presidential material by the powers that be, just like the Patriot Act was written long before 9-11. Presidents don't actually write their policies, they're just in charge of putting a spin on it, while ramming it down our throats, e.g., the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

For those that actually believe the propaganda put out by the perveyers of this trash... "that it is good for the people", etc. Ask yourselves this: when was the last time that our government passed a bloated piece of beaurocracy that actually worked for the people? Hell, when was the last time that our government passed anything that worked, period? It's a scam folks, every bit as pathetic as those Nigerian 419 advance fee frauds. Ask yourselves why an industry that is largely regarded as dishonest, if not criminal, is to be rewarded, while the American people are made to pay for it? They created this mess in the 70's, and typical of the Hegelian dialectic of Problem, reaction, solution... They are conning us all.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by HothSnake]

[edit on 22-3-2010 by HothSnake]

[edit on 22-3-2010 by HothSnake]

I think I found the problem...

comixed.com...

Really though, I just hope this all doesn't get too out of hand.

I agree with your argument. All politicians are only out for themselves and not for the people.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

"OH NOEZ, WE'RE DOOMED" partisan panic crowd screaming the sky is falling because
. . . . .
WHY WEREN'T YOU THIS UPSET WHEN BUSH AND CHENEY WERE GOING THROUGH OUR MONEY LIKE DRUNKEN SAILORS ON SHORE LEAVE???

What the drunken sailors spent is chump change compared to what is being spent now!
Seems I remember a certain group crying that that the sky was falling as a result of all that spending too.

Where was your anger when Bush gave a huge tax cut to his rich buddies and created the damn deficit that being added to now???

Again, still nothin' but chump change.

Here's another question for all of you GENIUSES out there: Remember those really EVIL variable rate mortgages that were given out to people who couldn't afford to pay them once the rate 'varied'??? You know, the financial instruments that caused the housing market to collapse, put MILLIONS of Americans out of work, and had the Wall Street Banksters getting bailed out by us taxpayers??? Why are those frakkin' things still legal??? Why hasn't ANYONE from EITHER side of the aisle proposed legislation to make those wretched things ILLEGAL???

Because there are still millions upon millions to be made, which explains why Obama is smiling from ear to ear.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


You know Obama has spent more already than bush in his entire presidency right?

reply to post by The_Zomar


Want to show statistics?

Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

You know Obama has spent more already than bush in his entire presidency right?

But what do we have to show for Bush's tenure? 2 wars and the patriot act. At least with Obama, we have something tangible.

Now, if Bush would had done something about health care when we had a surplus...wow, that would have been great. Instead, he sent us into wars and blew the tax payers money for his own selfish reasons. Obama may be spending tax payer dollars, but there is nothing selfish about it.

reply to post by Medieval1028


No the republican obstructionism has less to do with sex and gender of their opposition, far less, than it has to do with keeping a two party system going.

They were right when they said a lot of people were dead set against the bill as it was written. So if someone that was part of the establishment didn't seem to stand with that segment of the population, there was too strong a possibility that that segment would drop voting for Democrats AND Republicans.

In any case, my objections to this bill had to do with the lack of public consideration that entered into it before it passed in spite of a large ground swell of public support against it. Now I'm waiting for lawyers here to state clearly what the good and bad in this bill are, outside the IRS forced health insurance.

BTW, to the OP on the "where were you when..." argument, for the patriot act, I was for it, if and only if, ironclad sunset clauses were put in it that would end the act after a reasonable length of time, and that only as at the time I bought the 9-11 official story hook, line, and sinker.

The only ones who I feel the bad mortgage bill approval applies to are those of us who had the economic education to work out what the consequences would be. To the rest of us, it went under the radar as a non issue.

As for Iraq, I stated then, as I state now, it was legal for the US to have invaded Iraq starting in '92 or so on, due to the cease fire violations. Whether it was wise to do so, or to take the course after Saddam's toppling that we did is another issue.

With regard to the budget deficit/surplus issue, both parties worked and continue to work to expand it. In my opinion, a government that uses fiat currency and does not run a deficit is doing a disservice to it's citizens, as this means it is taking in more in taxes than in services it is providing. It was when that deficit reached more than a full day's minimum wage per citizen that it went overboard.

edit to correct a double negative

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Lhuhikwdwoo]

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by The_Zomar
reply to post by JaxonRoberts

 

You know Obama has spent more already than bush in his entire presidency right?

But what do we have to show for Bush's tenure? 2 wars and the patriot act. At least with Obama, we have something tangible.

Oh, we'll have something tangible (as a result of this) alright- say hello to your RFID chips.

*sorry, I meant to quote AggieMan

[edit on 22-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]

Originally posted by tsloan
WOW...Stop the presses...God forbid we give up 3 stealth bombers to allow others to have...well make everyone have health care...I mean far be it from me that health care helps people..stealth bombers KILL people... As if our country needs to build any thing more to spread a little more destruction across the globe in the name of freedom.

That's might be all well and good if the DOD was actually going to give up three stealth bombers but, they aren't going to.

And for the record, I think Bush is crap too and I didn't have any issues saying it.

Will someone please comment on the fact that in this country the corporations and government kill people (not just in other countries, but here as well) and then act like the health care bill is such a humanitarian effort? Will the people at Ruby Ridge or Waco (only 2 examples for sake of debate) be able to get in on this sweet deal? Oh, no. Thats right- they're dead. Murdered by the "worlds police", the good ol' U.S. of A.
I dont understand how a group can exist and continue to behave like this and it goes unnoticed...

Originally posted by antonia


That's might be all well and good if the DOD was actually going to give up three stealth bombers but, they aren't going to.

And for the record, I think Bush is crap too and I didn't have any issues saying it.

And thats ^ damn true, as well.

newsflash: OLD BOSS/NEW BOSS = SAME. I make a standing bet to anyone that can disprove my doubts that the U.S. (corporate owned) government has suddenly done a 180 and is now loving and caring for the citizens of this country.

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
reply to post by cmaracing

 

Let's keep in mind that a lot of this isn't just about cost. Many people who are pissed (myself included) are pissed at the sheer disregard of our voice. I don't care how much it costs but if our representatives aren't representing then it's over for them.

I'm sorry, but I must interject here. The politicians haven't been listening to us for about 50 years or more and have been enacting their own policies for even longer than that.

Now, to address your statement about it being "over for them." I don't see any movement that is stopping the government from implementing or enforcing their will. However, I see many people who have made these same statements before and they'll continue to make these statements after you. The fact is, Americans aren't going to do anything. Ever. We are not the fighters we claim to be as depicted in the movies. We aren't heroes or badasses...you mean to tell me that an entire airplane couldn't handle a few guys with boxcutters???
We are apathetic, mostly overweight, and allow anything to happen to others just as long as it doesn't happen to us. That's the real reality of the American tough guy image. You can look at youtube video after youtube video of violence perpetrated on the streets, and what is going on in most of those videos??? The crowd stands there and watches. There's your reality.

And...let's say that Americans did stand up and do something. It would probably be violent as opposed to an intelligent and peaceful movement. Additionally, We would put ourselves in the worst bind imaginable because of our own little internal divisions (democrat vs repub. black vs white. Rich vs poor) that there wouldn't be much left for the government to fight because we'd all murder each other before ever reaching what we perceived as the "enemy."

Here's the irony of it. After all of that fighting back and fourth and destroying the system and killing each other, there will be people who will require "HEALTHCARE." Because, as you're aware, wars aren't as clean as they make them out to be in the movies. There would be people with missing limbs, others who's lives are barely hanging onto life by a thread, gunshot wounds...etc. And then you'd all realize...I can't believe that we went to war over HEALTHCARE.

You all have been getting screwed for so long...why should healthcare be the straw that broke the camel's back???

If you were to go to war, it should have been when Bush reversed the rules of the Geneva conventions to allow for torture. Or, it could have been when it took us 5 days to help the people who were dying in their own stew during Hurricane Katrina and were quarantined from escaping their situation. OR...How about when we bailed out the corporations for the SECOND TIME???

I honestly cannot believe the priorities of most Americans? You can allow innocent people to die and watch it on the news (Katrina, or any tragedy for that matter), you can let politicians lie, steal and cheat over oil (wars), you can allow them to rape you of your tax money and give it to the rich (bailouts), but...For God's sake, don't you dare give us all healthcare so that we can provide for our families.

Is everyone insane???



[edit on 22-3-2010 by EvolvedMinistry]

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry


This is the oldest trick in tptb's playbook: "Divide and Conquer". This works so well, as it has worked so well for a very, very long time. And that is JUST ONE of the elites' very creative tools of mass manipulation.

* I was meaning to quote this part you wrote:
And...let's say that Americans did stand up and do something. It would probably be violent as opposed to an intelligent and peaceful movement. Additionally, We would put ourselves in the worst bind imaginable because of our own little internal divisions (democrat vs repub. black vs white. Rich vs poor) that there wouldn't be much left for the government to fight because we'd all murder each other before ever reaching what we perceived as the "enemy."


[edit on 22-3-2010 by 12.13.2012]

A lot of the right-wing propaganda was full of lies as factcheck.org has proven. Even before a finalized bill was up for discussions, they started spouting words like "death panels".

People need to realize that a lot of anti-healthcare propaganda wasn't only to oppose facts of the bill, but rather oppose the other party. HC was a HUGE subject for the ruling party, and the republicans knew that a failure to get this bill through would be seen as a huge failure of the democrats. That would give them some leverage during the next elections.

Here's a new concept for us to get used to in this country: "Operation: Bumpy Ride".

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
Where was your anger when Bush gave a huge tax cut to his rich buddies and created the damn deficit that being added to now??? At least that adulterous worm Clinton left a SURPLUS when he left office! Or is it OK if they waste our tax money as long as they have a frakkiin' (R) after their names????

[edit on Mon Mar 22 2010 by DontTreadOnMe]

Im not on either side D or R but im just saying about the trading its because bill Clinton allowed trading to open to China and then China took advantage and we bought tons of their products and trade deficit is when we receive more imports then exports vice visa for trade surplus. Basically it not the presidents fault for this its everyone fault in the US businesses and people for buying some many imports but not exporting # back so thats why its so bad you can't blame the president for what people do. Thats like blaming an officer for so much crime ijn the area he tries to do his best but their still going to be crime. The only way to fix that problem, is the US has to sell more products then it is buying in.

Also there was no choice in the $700 billion dollar bailout its the banks and people's fault for buying houses in which couldn't afford. Don't worry we are recovering its going to take a while and banks are being punished for being part of the cause of it. If they had not done the $700 billion bailout our US $1 would be nothing, literally it would be worth nothing not a single penny if they hadn't but its alot of people's fault then just one for this contraction. It will be a while before we will get back to the normal track of things, decades even for such a contraction. HINT: people need to save money when economy is good by 15% and spend when there is a contraction to fix the situation.

PS I'm in Advanced Honors Economics

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Ferginator]

[edit on 22-3-2010 by Ferginator]

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


We have a hijacked Government with the entire Military Industrial Complex under their thumbs. However - it is my belief they all work for Israel one way or another.

It will be a reverse Holocaust if they have their way.

I say reverse because the people who cry claims of anti-semitism are the very people controlling everyone.

The secret will become fully known soon enough, many of us know the truth already. Shhhhh, don't speak

damn it all, do you know how bad this bill is?

to the economy?

to individual sovereignty?

IN THE END IT WONT BENEFIT US!

JUST SOME CAHOOTS IN DC, AND BIG PHARMA/INSURANCE!

not you, or me, or anyone else. its been about them, and only about them! its to seal obamas next term, and lets just say he has been a wonderful failure as president. were in worse shape then 2 years ago. UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS have nearly doubled since 2008.

yea... great bill...

to end w/e we had left.

GOOD JOB AGREEING TO THE STATUS QUO!


[edit on 3/22/2010 by ugie1028]