The Great Lie is John 3:16

reply to post by godless

I think the Nazis had a similar vision of "Free Will" where the Jews were concerned. FYI, that's not Free Will, that's brutal coercion!

Exactly! Your example perfectly illustrates free will, gone wrong. The Nazi's exercised their will on a minority population and blamed them for all of their problems. It wasn't God's fault the Nazis were evil propagandists and murdered all those people.

Here's the thing. All the Jews that died, exist in God's memory. Luke 20 v 36-38

They will be brought back. John 5 v28 and 29

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

It gives examples, quotes from the Scripture, later on in other books of the Bible, that describe the dragon/serpent/satan -

In Genesis, no, it doesn't come out and say the serpent was satan - but if you read the rest of the Bible, you'll see in various places, as the resource gave, in the Bible where it tells the names that satan is known by - and one of those names is the "serpent".

Too bad you cannot just simply point that out. The truth has to be sussed out by reading inferences in other books now? Just because Satan was referred to as a serpent in Revelations does not mean that the serpent in Genesis was Satan. It does not say that ANYWHERE. You cannot show where it says it because it never says it. I just hoped you would show me where it said it but you did not.

Sorry to waste both our time in asking a bible believer to answer a simple question.

sure is a lot of talking for a strawman arg.
Tell me which word you interpret as serpent please.

Surely the lie is the Bible? Anyone who believes that tripe needs their head examined.

Originally posted by Trueman
To understand John 3:16, you need to put aside your science.

Because where has science ever gotten us? Unabated belief in an imaginary friend has done WONDERS though.

reply to post by K J Gunderson

I have my bible right here and nowhere does it mentions Satan tempting Adam and Eve.

You said the bible. I showed you from the bible.


2 Corinthians 11 v3-14 talks about the serpent in the garden and a few verses later it references Satan. What do you think?

Originally posted by manna2

sure is a lot of talking for a strawman arg.
Tell me which word you interpret as serpent please.

Not sure what strawman you are talking about unless you mean God.

Anyway, the word that I interpret as serpent is...

drum roll please...


tsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss...

SERPENT!

I know it is hard to tell since I already stated that it clearly says "serpent" several times but never once says that it is Satan.

I hope that helps.

reply to post by CookieMonster09

Very simple. God gave man free will. Meaning, man has a choice to do good or evil.

If man has the ability to act in anyway contrary to it's design then this would preclude the omniscience and omnipresence of it's alleged creator, ie the impetus for its' actions must arise from somewhere.

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

I have my bible right here and nowhere does it mentions Satan tempting Adam and Eve.

You said the bible. I showed you from the bible.


2 Corinthians 11 v3-14 talks about the serpent in the garden and a few verses later it references Satan. What do you think?

I think matching a quote with a "reference" is highly dubious at best, intellectually dishonest at worst. Just show us the line that clearly states the serpent was Satan. Why is this such a daunting task. Ask me a similar question about any book I have read and I will show you how easy it is to answer.

Surely the lie is the Bible? Anyone who believes that tripe needs their head examined.

Now, there's a positive attitude if I've ever seen one. : )

reply to post by CookieMonster09

He has a moral code to adhere to - the Ten Commandments.

Yet the same so called "true christians" (whatever the hell they are as I've yet to meet an xtian that doesn't claim to be one) also claim that the law does not apply to them.

reply to post by CookieMonster09

Just because you pray for a certain thing to come true, doesn't mean that it will, or even in the time frame that you want it to happen. Simple example.

Ah, the old milk jug trick, here -


But there again why would jesus lie ?

Mark 11:24: Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

If man has the ability to act in anyway contrary to it's design then this would preclude the omniscience and omnipresence of it's alleged creator, ie the impetus for its' actions must arise from somewhere.

God is all-powerful, all-knowing. That does not preclude man having free will to choose good or evil. I don't deny that God knows all, and has always known all. He knows everything. Again, that doesn't preclude free will. Just because He can ascertain future, past, and present, doesn't mean that you don't have free will. The two are not exclusive.

Yet the same so called "true christians" (whatever the hell they are as I've yet to meet an xtian that doesn't claim to be one) also claim that the law does not apply to them.

Well, I am sorry that you have met some "Christians" that you feel are immoral. I can tell you about less than satisfactory experiences with heathens as well, if that makes you feel any better.

Making blanket statements about literally tens of millions of Christians is hardly being objective.

Ah, the old milk jug trick, here -

You're missing the point. God's time frame, quite simply, is not man's time frame.

I am sorry that you would equate a jug of milk to God. It's actually really sad.

But there again why would jesus lie ?

What to make of this...? Are you calling Jesus a liar? Please explain.

reply to post by bwinwright


His worked sucked then, since the Bible directly contradicts many Catholic teachings.

@OP: Bravo! Fascinating post. Straight to the point.

Here, in Ireland, the older generation is extremely religious. In fact, many of them adulate and fanatically worship the figure of Christ. It's sad to see the people I care about most in their delusion. They are quick to anger and become insulted if ever challenged academically about their fate. It's almost like a taboo subject with my older relatives.

Non-religionists view religionists as their partially lobotomized/brainwashed counterparts in the same way that conspiracy theorists view the 'sheeple' as unconscious slaves.

It would be a waste of time to make argument with an atheist concerning God. God only reveals Himself to those who belong to Him, all others will never find Him and never believe in Him for their salvation.

The Catholic church is not Christianity, but a religion that has as part of it's theology, aspects of Christianity. That having been said the OP's argument on John 3:16 is way off.

The Bible says that a person is saved by faith in Christ. If you don't believe in Christ and do not have any faith, you cannot be saved, and therefore anything about God should not bother you. But I always find that when unbelievers make all their rants against God, I believe that it's because they know in their heart God is and that is what bothers them.

His worked sucked then, since the Bible directly contradicts many Catholic teachings.

Be specific. Give an example, or two, if you please.

As far as I can tell, the Catholic Church's teaching, as promulgated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, are directly in line with Holy Writ.

Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, by the way?

The Catholic church is not Christianity, but a religion that has as part of it's theology, aspects of Christianity

What evidence do you have that the Catholic Church is not Christianity?

Roman Catholicism is the foundation of all Christianity, and the largest Christian denomination by far.

Sects and offshoots of the Catholic Church are considered "Christian", I suppose, but no more so "Christian" than the Mother Church (Roman Catholicism).

Thanks for this post. John 3:16 is one of the most popular verses in the fundamentalist Christian community. Maybe the Catholics started it, but in today's world it is the favorite of Evangelicals and Baptists.

I say that John 3:16 is the most evil verse ever written. In this verse hate is equated to love.

leftbehindmadness.blogspot.com...

"The greatest and most evil lie perpetrated by Christianity is that salvation is needed to get into heaven, that Jesus got sacrificed to save the human race from the wrath of the father god. John 3:16 states: "For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life." In one sentence heaven’s door is slammed in the face of all non-Christians. Heaven has limited entry through belief in the one true savior meme; all those not chosen are damned. Christianity’s history of bloodletting stems from this exclusionary belief, if you believe the other is already damned then murdering that person becomes logical. Christianity can not exist without the concept that a judging god is sending all to hell for the crime of being born. I consider John 3:16 to be the most anti-human verse every written. This verse is often proudly displayed as a bumper sticker that perfectly identifies the true Christian vibe that is exclusionary, vengeful, and hateful. John 3:16 is pure evil. "

google "phishna blogger" to read more or visit
www.blogger.com...

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

His worked sucked then, since the Bible directly contradicts many Catholic teachings.

Be specific. Give an example, or two, if you please.

As far as I can tell, the Catholic Church's teaching, as promulgated in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, are directly in line with Holy Writ.

Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, by the way?

Link

Link



Have fun.

[edit on 3/21/2010 by Lemon.Fresh]

In one sentence heaven’s door is slammed in the face of all non-Christians. Heaven has limited entry through belief in the one true savior meme; all those not chosen are damned.

How is this any different from any other religion, or any other institutionalized belief structure? You could easily make the same claim of any of a number of religions. Each religion believes that they are the exclusive path to salvation, enlightenment, illumination, etc. The Catholic Church's position in this matter is no different from any other religion.

And, who is to say that the Catholic Church is not the only way to salvation? Have we any proof to the contrary? Any evidence?

And if Christ is not the answer, why not? What's wrong with choosing Christ as the path to salvation? He was, after all, the greatest teacher, rabbi, healer of all time by all historical accounts. He was the Son of God, died for mankind's sins, healed the sick, gave comfort to the poor and oppressed.

What more do you want from your Savior? If not Him, who else would you choose?

I say that John 3:16 is the most evil verse ever written.

Well, I guess you're entitled to your opinion. Hundreds of millions of Roman Catholics would disagree, but to each his own.

Christianity’s history of bloodletting stems from this exclusionary belief, if you believe the other is already damned then murdering that person becomes logical.

Nonsense. Murder? No, the Catholic Church forbids murder. It is one of the Ten Commandments. It is part of the Catechism of the Catholic Church - Murder is expressly forbidden.

History of bloodletting? I can think of not a few other mainstream religions that are much, much more violent than Christianity has ever been.