The Great Lie is John 3:16

to the OP....it is always amazing to me, that people go to such lengths to turn the Holy Word into mere human words, instead of just being honest and saying "I dont/wont believe them". At least that would not be disenginuous.

and whats more to see people who say - and I know the OP feels this way as apparently do many on ATS - "well, the Bible is just a book written by men", and then go about using A BOOK like the DaVinci (written by a man) code to try to point out the supposed fiction of a book thousands of years older.

I realize that the DaVinci code wasn't the point of this thread, but the demeaning attitude of the OP, along with the ridiculous statements about Constantine making the quote of John 3:16 still illustrates this absurd behaviour.

I guess we will all have to wait - and maybe not too much longer - until the Lord comes again. I know that many like the OP will then know the error and falliciousness of his arguments, but it will be too late to change his/her mind.

It is not good to mock God, as one day everyone that mocks will bow the knee before a Holy God...

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. ~ Philippians 2:9-11

Many people experience spiritual things in life, be it good or bad and many have confessed that Jesus has helped in their life and experienced things that maybe can not be proven with simple words.

Many have experienced help from other religions as well. Islam. Buddhaism, etc etc etc. Jesus doesn't have a monopoly on miracles.
So your point is..?

No comparable atrocities have been committed in the "name " of atheism.

That's laughable, and pure nonsense. Atheistic communism murdered millions upon millions during the Stalin years. And there are plenty more examples of atheism leading to nothing but trouble.

You really need to read the book, The Gulag Archipelago.

Yahweh is downright atrocious and christians have acted upon that.

Wow. Blaspheming the Lord now, are we? Wow. Just wow.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
God created mankind perfect - it was satan who approached Adam and Eve in the Garden and tempted them - which led to sin. From that point on, mankind was born into sin - we are, by and at birth, sinners separated from God. Enter Jesus Christ, who was sent as our only way out to avoid eternal damnation. IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, we escape eternal hell.

So, God created a tree that Adam and Eve were not to eat from. Satan convinced Eve to eat from it and give some to Adam. God (who had to ask 1. where they were and 2. what they had done - so much for omniscience), who apparently had no problem with Satan hanging out in Paradise (or even the existence of Evil itself) punishes them with banishment from the Garden of Eden and a limited lifespan. And, as a bonus, He curses all of their offspring for their sin AND condemns the serpent for the crime of being possessed by Satan. Because an animal totally has free will - especially when Satan is possessing it.

Then, He sent Himself down as His own Son, to be sacrificed to Himself, thus saving us from the fate He condemned us to.

Taa-daa!

reply to post by undo


It doesn't really matter which language at the end of the day as it does Not change anything regarding LIFE and this experience (Program)...

There are still the different Components of the All.

But I can safely say there is a huge amount of Corruption in the ancient writings which is brought about by the human Conspiracy against LIFE...

That is why Certain technologies and knowledge, were taken from the human species as you well know.

I respect the research you have done, but now you should dig even deeper.

From "The Gospel of Thomas"...

verse 1 & 2. Quote;

1. And He said,

“Whoever finds the interpretation
of these sayings
will NOT experience death.”

2. Jesus said,

“Let him who seeks.
continue seeking.
until he finds.

When he finds,
he will become troubled.

When he becomes troubled,
he will be astonished,
and he will rule over The All.”

Verse 77. Referring to what the All is... Quote;

77. Jesus said,

“It is I who Am The Light (As in LIGHT of this World)
which is above them all.

It is I who Am The All.

From Me did The All come forth,

and unto Me did The All extend.

Split a piece of wood,
and I am there.

Lift up the stone,
and you Will Find Me there".

And Verse 39. Regarding the hiding of Knowledge by the Pharisees & Scribes.


Verse 39. Quote;

39. Jesus said,

“The Pharisees and the Scribes
have taken The Keys of Knowledge
and Hidden Them.

They themselves have NOT entered,
nor have they allowed to enter
those who wish to.

I enjoyed your threads and Respect the work you have done.

But we never stop learning, it is eternal.


From the "The Infancy Gospel of Thomas"

Verse 14.... Quote;

14.
And when Joseph saw the understanding of The Child and his age,
that He was growing to maturity, he resolved again that He (Jesus)
should not remain ignorant of LETTERS;

and he took Him and handed Him over to another teacher.
And the teacher said to Joseph:
"FIRST I will teach Him GREEK,
and THEN HEBREW."

Why teach Him Greek First ???

Well the ancient Greek esp. IONic Greek came from the Lost ZIONic Language of The Soul....

[edit on 23-3-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
God created mankind perfect - it was satan who approached Adam and Eve in the Garden and tempted them - which led to sin. From that point on, mankind was born into sin - we are, by and at birth, sinners separated from God. Enter Jesus Christ, who was sent as our only way out to avoid eternal damnation. IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, we escape eternal hell.

So, God created a tree that Adam and Eve were not to eat from. Satan convinced Eve to eat from it and give some to Adam. God (who had to ask 1. where they were and 2. what they had done - so much for omniscience), who apparently had no problem with Satan hanging out in Paradise (or even the existence of Evil itself) punishes them with banishment from the Garden of Eden and a limited lifespan. And, as a bonus, He curses all of their offspring for their sin AND condemns the serpent for the crime of being possessed by Satan. Because an animal totally has free will - especially when Satan is possessing it.

Then, He sent Himself down as His own Son, to be sacrificed to Himself, thus saving us from the fate He condemned us to.

Taa-daa!

Very nice summary.

See you just reminded me of another reason that could not be Satan in the garden of Eden - aside from the fact that the book says serpent and not Satan - but the garden of Eden was supposed to be void of all evil so there is no way an all powerful god would have just left the front gate open like that.

Another question comes to mind while reading this. How on earth could Adam and Eve have known the severity of their disobedience? They didn't have the knowledge of good and bad. So how could they comprehend that they were doing something really stupid? They were warned they would surely die, but death was an unkown concept to them. Therefore, the whole warning in itself was useless and the test they had to take was completely unfair. It's like placing a big jar with cookies in front of two toddlers and telling them they can't have it because it then you will have to kill them.
They will eat the cookies anyway because they are too innocent to fully comprehend the meaning of the warning they are given. Second, the temptation is too big and any decent parent would know that. Any parent who would actually kick his toddler out of the house after eating a cookie, would have a lot to explain to child services and the child would definitely not be held responsible, nor would his childrens children. The whole garden of eden story is a nice story, but when you break it down, it is a cruel one and can't be real. And if it is, who would want anything to do with a god like that??

And another thing: if the serpent wasn't satan, There actually was a talking snake back then?


[edit on 23-3-2010 by Gwynniver]

reply to post by Gwynniver


But what is this World really about ???

If all was Not meant to happen this way, this world would Not be as it is Now....

So what is really going on ???

Perhaps it has Nothing to do with humanity ???

But The Soul Only?

Is the bible about Humanity i.e. The Descendants of A'DAM ???

Or is it a Parable involving The Soul ???

Perhaps the lack of Knowledge and Understand in the World is because of The human Conspiracy against LIFE ???

If such a Conspiracy does exist.... WHy ???

This story is too intricate and didn't constitine convert on his deathbed? I distinctly remember christians being tortured and put to death.

reply to post by marsvoltafan74


That is why the Carpenters followers, went underground with the real knowledge, and the Roman church has tried to destroy the true Teachings of Christ through the Carpenter...

The Roman church is "The Great Deception" that would come on the occupants of the Earth.!

Originally posted by mothershipzeta

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
God created mankind perfect - it was satan who approached Adam and Eve in the Garden and tempted them - which led to sin. From that point on, mankind was born into sin - we are, by and at birth, sinners separated from God. Enter Jesus Christ, who was sent as our only way out to avoid eternal damnation. IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, we escape eternal hell.

So, God created a tree that Adam and Eve were not to eat from. Satan convinced Eve to eat from it and give some to Adam. God (who had to ask 1. where they were and 2. what they had done - so much for omniscience), who apparently had no problem with Satan hanging out in Paradise (or even the existence of Evil itself) punishes them with banishment from the Garden of Eden and a limited lifespan. And, as a bonus, He curses all of their offspring for their sin AND condemns the serpent for the crime of being possessed by Satan. Because an animal totally has free will - especially when Satan is possessing it.

Then, He sent Himself down as His own Son, to be sacrificed to Himself, thus saving us from the fate He condemned us to.

Taa-daa!

Yes, God called out for them to see if they would answer - there's that "free will" again.

No one is sure of exactly what satan did, when he was a previous good angel of light - to get bannished from Heaven. But God does still allow him to roam "to and fro" on the earth.

No one is asking nor requiring you to believe it - you will believe, or not believe, on your own accord - not because of me, or anyone else. You, too, have free will, my friend.

reply to post by Gwynniver



God warned them not to eat from the tree - they disobeyed, therefore they had to suffer the consequences.

I know - us humans think they should have been afforded second, third and fourth chances - but God does allow us earthly humans that today. He only wants US to choose it for ourselves - from Him.

The thing is, as we go along, it's going to become harder and harder to discern the works of satan, and the antichrist - from the true God.

That's why if people don't stay in the Bible, read - read - read- and try to understand, you won't stand a chance of knowing what or who to believe when the end days are actually here and the fireworks going off on this planet.

If you seek God, He will open up the words in His Bible to you - and keep you from being deceived.

But if you don't, then you are only allowing yourself to be used by satan - and your eternal soul is going to be lost forever.

People need to ask themselves - are they willing to trade eternal salvation for this extremely tiny bit of "time" here on this planet.

Eternity trumps over earthly time - for me anyhow.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


One thing to remember - I know you say you don't believe in satan but if you just want to, do some research on just how clever he can be - and check out this website for proof.

He isn't going to show himself dressed in all red, with horns and carrying a pitchfork. He is smarter than that - he shows himself through celebs, music, magazines, tv shows, movies, etc. He can appear to us as the most handsomest man on the planet, or the most drop dead gorgeous woman on the planet. Or he can show himself at a heavy metal rock band concert - tshirt messages, bumper stickers, even the very clothes we choose to wear - anything he can use to create doubt in our minds, he will not think twice about using.

satan knows, as well as most of us, that we are in the end days. He knows he doesn't have that much time left to gather as many souls as he can away from God. He is, I'm sure, working overtime with his tactics and evil - he knows God has already sealed his fate - eternal damnation.

It's like Lady Gaga - is it "just" a video about a telephone............. OR ...

Originally posted by Gwynniver
Another question comes to mind while reading this. How on earth could Adam and Eve have known the severity of their disobedience? They didn't have the knowledge of good and bad. So how could they comprehend that they were doing something really stupid? They were warned they would surely die, but death was an unkown concept to them. Therefore, the whole warning in itself was useless and the test they had to take was completely unfair. It's like placing a big jar with cookies in front of two toddlers and telling them they can't have it because it then you will have to kill them.
They will eat the cookies anyway because they are too innocent to fully comprehend the meaning of the warning they are given. Second, the temptation is too big and any decent parent would know that. Any parent who would actually kick his toddler out of the house after eating a cookie, would have a lot to explain to child services and the child would definitely not be held responsible, nor would his childrens children. The whole garden of eden story is a nice story, but when you break it down, it is a cruel one and can't be real. And if it is, who would want anything to do with a god like that??

And another thing: if the serpent wasn't satan, There actually was a talking snake back then?

[edit on 23-3-2010 by Gwynniver]

Very good point. When I was a kid my father grew a few plants he did not want me to touch. He had his own bathroom off his bedroom and kept them growing locked up in there. God couldn't have used another place to stick his damn trees?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Originally posted by Hemisphere

If God made everything, he made Satan too. It's a circular argument that leads me to think that whatever caused existence had no knowledge of or care for what came forth. You can call this creative force or event "God" all you like but it ain't calling back. This also explains why there are no verifiable physical manifestations of a anthropomorphic god. If there were there would be only believers. Thus god or his only son did not cause a mountain to hover a few feet above the ground throughout time, defying the accepted laws of the universe although many still believe he/they could if they so chose. You see that would be evidence of a supernatural power and there is no supernatural power. The evidence of any god, anthropomorphic or otherwise, is always myth, legend and fairy tale.

=================================================

In time, as these end days progress, mankind will start to see more and more signs from God - He says that in the Bible.

There are already numerous signs that can be currently verified - if you read Daniel and Revelation in the King James Bible. The weather systems increasing, crime, middle east conflicts, ISRAEL being persecuted by everyone, our world going under a one govt system, earthquakes increasing is a biggie, famines - etc.

The famine prophecy may sound crazy now - but if you caught the recent news article regarding the dangerous pathogen (Ug99) that is now being found on wheat over in Kenya - its spores spread by wind, and by export. Wheat, so sayeth the food experts, is found in about 90% of our foods, and if this pathogen spreads, those experts say that it will cause worldwide famine.

You can read the news articles on Ug99 HERE

Everything is falling into place - and will continue to - we all have a front row seat to the coming events. So you, and other non believers, will have all the proof you'd ever want to see, and probably things you aren't going to want to see - but just be patient - it'll come, trust me.

There hasn't been one single prophecy that has turned out wrong yet - and there won't be. So do what you want, believe what you want, but if you were smart, and really wanted to know what's coming, it's as simple as reviewing those two books of the Bible.

If you want to continue to remain ignorant on the coming prophecies, that's your choice - but don't act shocked when the brimstone starts falling.

Prophecies are useless. Whatever begins ends. This thread will end. I am a prophet and that is my prophecy. We are born to die. The laws of the universe insure this. Worlds end throughout the universe. They have for a very long time and more likely will for a very long time. This particular world is only unique in that sentient beings might die when it too ends. And... there's no telling if that has not occurred before so perhaps not so unique a world. Only as far as we can determine.

The laws of the universe are the prophets. Our observing those laws, as limited as our observations might be, create prophesies. You don't have to believe in the laws of the universe but you will succumb to them eventually. That sounds a little like religion doesn't it? "So let it be written. So let it be done."

The L.Y.Y.H.T. is shining for all of those who seek the absolute Truth. The true Way. Christianity and Roman Catholicism are one and the same and are NOT the way the original Believers functioned and behaved. The 4 gospels are abundantly clear on that. The names of people and places were even changed by men who had no authority whatsoever to do so under the influence of ha sa'tan (the adversary).

If you are looking for the true path, the original path, then seek the LYYHT and you will find it. He who has an ear let him hear these words of the prophet of El Elyon.

The OP's version of events is certainly something to consider for athiests who blame religion for all of the misdeeds of mankind. In this version, it becomes clear that a man, obsessed with power, greed and ego, who uses religion as a tool to gain power and control over people.

Sound familiar? This is the same song and dance(men obsessed with power and greed) that has been around for an eternity, including many of todays so called world leaders. Religion is hardly the cause, but certainly has been the means to their goal.

One thing I have to mention though...........

I have the latest edition of the dead sea scrolls as published. Very informative book for sure. However, many of the books of the bible found within the dead sea scrolls are for the most part unchanged from the bibles published today. Alot of it word for word. Some notable differences were those stories of Enoch or Noah etc. where the scrolls offer the same stories but in much greater detail.

reply to post by K J Gunderson

Nope. I read "serpent" over and over again and not one mention of it being Satan. That would be why I assume it was just a talking snake. I look forward to you educating me on this.

Just more willful ignorance.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that SERPANT of old, who is THE DEVIL and SATAN, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished" (Revelation 20:1-3).

Sounds like his mouth gets sealed shut. Finally. That will most likely shut the rest of you up too.

Very good point

NOT!


[edit on 23-3-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
...
See you just reminded me of another reason that could not be Satan in the garden of Eden - aside from the fact that the book says serpent and not Satan - but the garden of Eden was supposed to be void of all evil so there is no way an all powerful god would have just left the front gate open like that.

Can you quote some scripture to back up this idea that the Garden of Eden "was supposed to be void of all evil?" Or is this just something you derived by logic from the story? Just curious...