Burn victim verifies elevator explodes during 'impact' to North Tower not during collapse

Originally posted by rush969
So...Now we have a new addition to the conspiracy.
""MISTIMED EXPLOSIVES""

It's not new. It's been out there for years. A little research would have taught you this.

Originally posted by rush969
And how come NOBODY, NOT ONE of the witnesses reports this EXPLOSIVES??

Many people reported the explosion BEFORE the first plane impacted. The video is in the very post that you got my quote from.

Originally posted by rush969
Sure, lots of people report "explosions", but that´s not the same thing.

No, lots of people reported at least one explosion happened BEFORE the first plane impacted. Unless you'd like to call all the witnesses in the video liars. That would be convenient for you, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by rush969
You are pushing the witness testimonies that describe explosions but none of them knew for sure if the "explosion" they heard first, was before, or was the actual plane crash.

Sounds like they knew for sure to me. And numerous witnesses reporting the same thing means that it likely happened. Oh, and they all reported that the explosion did happen BEFORE the first plane impact.

Furthermore, have you ever lived in a tall apartment building? You can tell when noises come from above and when they come from below. You have no reason to doubt these witnesses when they describe explosions coming from the lower levels and the separate plane impact from above.

Originally posted by rush969
1.- First, the plane crashes against the tower. Big explosion.
This impact and explosion is of such force that the pressure wave moves all over the tower and reaches the lobby in the ground floor, causing the damage described there.

Your logic fails. This imaginary "pressure wave" would also have caused damage on every single floor from the impact zone to the lobby. There's no possible way a magical pressure wave would manifest itself at the lobby, skipping every floor in between.

Originally posted by rush969
3.- Then, the jet fuel that has traveled down through the elevator shafts ignites and, guess what??...........Big explosion.

Guess what, out of the 99 elevators in the towers, only 2 went from top to bottom. Oh and fuel doesn't very easily explode. Explosives explode.

Originally posted by rush969
And how did you establish this??

That would be called witness testimony and first responder testimony in the "First Responder Oral Histories".

In other words: "research".

Originally posted by triplescorpio
we were there .
there is no confusion in the eyes of us who stood and watched
sorry

Well then you should have no problem in showing the evidence asked for, i mean if the official story is true.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Let´s just use your video for a moment here.
There´s a witness, I believe his name is David Gray, who was walking into the revolving doors of the tower when the first plane hit.
You can see his testimony start at aprox. 01;12 in the video.
He clearly debunks what you are claiming.
He would not have walked into the revolving doors if there had been an explosion prior to the plane hit.
The plane hits and then there´s an explosion coming from one of the elevator shafts.
As this has been explained, that explosion from the elevator shaft is caused by the plane crash above.
Also, look at Stephen Newman, he apparently talks about someone he interviwed, that was in the lobby at the moment of the first plane hit.
NO EXPLOSIONS, prior. Just the plane hits, and then come the explosion from the elevator shaft.
Most of the people in your own video report that explosion. The one from the shaft, RIGHT AFTER the plane crashes.
There´s also video filmed right at the base of the towers moments before the collapse begins, and you can clearly see and hear that there´s no explosions going off as would be needed for a CD.

That film you can check here:

www.youtube.com...

There´s plenty of others too.



[edit on 26-3-2010 by rush969]

Originally posted by rush969

There´s also video filmed right at the base of the towers moments before the collapse begins, and you can clearly see and hear that there´s no explosions going off as would be needed for a CD.

Every time someone claims that we should be hearing explosions in these videos, I have asked why you would expect to hear the explosions in the video at all. Not one response to that question so far.

OS supporters seem to have a very hard time understanding that video is a series of images and not sound.

"David Gray statement:

I was entering the building in the lobby level, I was in the revolving doors when the plane hit the building. One of the elevators I think came crashing to the lobby level and all this debris came flying out of it. And a fireball emerged from the elevator lobby and was coming toward me"

Which elevator? How did he know this elevator came crashing to the lobby level, since he obviously could not see it? Did the route of this elevator run to the basement as well? If so, why did it stop at the lobby level? What is an elevator lobby? Did the fireball come from the elevator shaft or from the lobby. In other words, Mr. Gray has obviously made assumptions abut this "fireball" without witnessing where it came from. Witness credibility: poor due to making unseen assumptions.

"Stephen Newman statement about another unnamed witness:

He was in the lobby of WT1 when the first plane hit. And when the debris started coming down, he went back to go into the building to protect himself"

If this witness was in the building (lobby) when the plane hit, why would he have to go back into the building to protect himself? From the second part of his statement, one can infer that he was outside of the building. What's the deal? He can't be in two places at the same time. Witness credibility: extremely poor due to not being able to be in two places at the same time.

Any other witnesses out there who allegedly saw this magical fireball?

reply to post by K J Gunderson

OS supporters seem to have a very hard time understanding that video is a series of images and not sound.

-Snip- Did you really just say this?

...Seriously?

Are you saying the reason we're not hearing sounds of explosions in the videos is not because that there are no explosives present, but because there is actually no sound, despite the sound of everything else being picked up?

Like, take a music video for example, believe it or not, that video does indeed contain audio...

Mod Edit - Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

[edit on Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:45:29 -0500 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"David Gray statement:

I was entering the building in the lobby level, I was in the revolving doors when the plane hit the building. One of the elevators I think came crashing to the lobby level and all this debris came flying out of it. And a fireball emerged from the elevator lobby and was coming toward me"

Which elevator?

The one that came crashing down. In fact, there might have been no elevator at all, at the time, but just the explosion.

How did he know this elevator came crashing to the lobby level, since he obviously could not see it?

He didn´t know that. He perceived as most other witnesses, that the explosion was from the elevator shaft.

Did the route of this elevator run to the basement as well? If so, why did it stop at the lobby level?

Don´t know.
Who said the elevator stoped?? There was an explosion coming from the shaft. Nobody said the elevator stoped.

What is an elevator lobby? Did the fireball come from the elevator shaft or from the lobby.

A lobby where you can get into an elevator.
The fireball "explosion" came from the elevator shaft. This has been corroborated by most of the witnesses.

In other words, Mr. Gray has obviously made assumptions abut this "fireball" without witnessing where it came from. Witness credibility: poor due to making unseen assumptions.

But at least he was there.
Everybody makes assumptions about somethings. For example many people make assumptions that there were explosives in the buildings because witnesses say they heard an explosion. That is an assumption made here constantly.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
"Stephen Newman statement about another unnamed witness:

He was in the lobby of WT1 when the first plane hit. And when the debris started coming down, he went back to go into the building to protect himself"

If this witness was in the building (lobby) when the plane hit,

Apparently after the plane hit he went outside of the lobby.

why would he have to go back into the building to protect himself?

Well, when there are explosions in Skyscrapers, the people have to go inside to protect themselves from falling debris.

He can't be in two places at the same time. Witness credibility: extremely poor due to not being able to be in two places at the same time.

And he wasn´t. He was right there. In the WTC Towers.

Any other witnesses out there who allegedly saw this magical fireball?

Well, you´ve seen a few of them in the video posted, and there was nothing magical about this fireball, in fact is was terrifying and catastrophic. Your attempt at humor makes you look bad and disrespectfull of all the victims that suffered that day.

Originally posted by Whyhi


-Snip- Did you really just say this?

...Seriously?

You betcha!

Are you saying the reason we're not hearing sounds of explosions in the videos is not because that there are no explosives present, but because there is actually no sound, despite the sound of everything else being picked up?

Nope. Maybe you cannot read. I did not say there is "no sound."

Like, take a music video for example, believe it or not, that video does indeed contain audio...

Sure does. Do you know why it is recorded on a separate track?

Mod Edit - Civility And Decorum Are Required on AboveTopSecret.com

[edit on Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:45:29 -0500 by MemoryShock]

Do you know why they use microphones to record the sound they are specifically trying to capture to go along with the audio? Do you know why music videos, even live concerts are recorded on different equipment? Do you know why newsmen hand the microphone over to the person they are interviewing? Do you know why they have to go back and loop scenes in movies? Do you know anything about the phenomena that occurs between really high, really low, really soft, or really loud sounds when being recorded with other sounds?

If you know something I am missing, please feel free to educate me.

"The one that came crashing down. In fact, there might have been no elevator at all, at the time, but just the explosion."

No elevator? Oh really? Then why did he say this? 'One of the elevators I think came crashing to the lobby level'. What, are we going round in circles here?

"He didn´t know that. He perceived as most other witnesses, that the explosion was from the elevator shaft."

So what if he "perceived" that the explosion was from the elevator shaft? Does this mean that its origin was from 800 feet above, the alleged point of impact?

"Who said the elevator stoped?? There was an explosion coming from the shaft. Nobody said the elevator stoped."

For the second time, here is the witness' quote 'One of the elevators I think came crashing to the lobby level'. I guess we are going around in circles. And the word is spelled STOPPED.

"The fireball "explosion" came from the elevator shaft. This has been corroborated by most of the witnesses."

Again, how does this prove that it originated from the alleged point of impact 800 feet above?

"Everybody makes assumptions about somethings. For example many people make assumptions that there were explosives in the buildings because witnesses say they heard an explosion. That is an assumption made here constantly."

That is why witnesses who make assumptions are not very credible. It's one thing to say you felt and heard a powerful explosion from right under your feet. It's another thing to say that some magical fire ball dropped 800 feet and blew out the elevators when, in reality, you have no clue what blew out those elevator doors.

"Apparently after the plane hit he went outside of the lobby."

He doesn't say he went outside the lobby. Sorry, I'm not a mind reader. Are you?

"Well, you´ve seen a few of them in the video posted, and there was nothing magical about this fireball, in fact is was terrifying and catastrophic. Your attempt at humor makes you look bad and disrespectfull of all the victims that suffered that day."

Nice try at your little diversionary attack. Maybe next time I'll consider taking your claim seriously if you can at least spell the word DISRESPECTFUL correctly.


[edit on 26-3-2010 by SphinxMontreal]

[edit on 26-3-2010 by SphinxMontreal]

reply to post by K J Gunderson


holy geez this is what i mean every word every statement is scrutininzed to CHERRY PICK what video dude i was standing right there i dont understand this desperate search you are on no matter how i state what i saw you refuse an eye witness in replacement for some video wich in itself is completely up for interpetation. contradicts what i say are you kidding freind give it up its really getting tired. anywho as usual YOU tube defuncts the truth again

I dunno

Click here to learn more about this warning.

Originally posted by triplescorpio
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

holy geez this is what i mean every word every statement is scrutininzed to CHERRY PICK what video dude i was standing right there i dont understand this desperate search you are on no matter how i state what i saw you refuse an eye witness in replacement for some video wich in itself is completely up for interpetation. contradicts what i say are you kidding freind give it up its really getting tired. anywho as usual YOU tube defuncts the truth again

I dunno

Let me try and put it nicely. I am not putting any video before eyewitness statements. I was responding to someone else about something else when you decided to jump in. You are not a name or a face on record. You are an anonymous poster on the internet. I hope you understand why your "eyewitness account" is at least less credible than eyewitnesses that have gone on record saying the exact opposite as you.

You can state what you saw until you are blue in the face but nothing will make me believe triplescorpio on ATS over a witness with a name and a face.

I am not sure why you even felt I was addressing you or anything you said so I hope you can move on now.

My response was to wyhi about recording equipment. For whatever reason that upset you, so sorry.

[edit on 27-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by triplescorpio
dude i was standing right there i dont understand this desperate search you are on no matter how i state what i saw you refuse an eye witness in replacement for some video wich in itself is completely up for interpetation.

So tell us what you saw.

Tell us how much fuel went down the only elevator that goes to the sub-basement.

How big were the jet infernos on the lower floors?

Please explain this to us.

A quick question? was anyone within this thread 'actually' there that day?

Originally posted by esdad71
A quick question? was anyone within this thread 'actually' there that day?

Of there is they will not post evidence of what they saw.

I'll offer you all a thread and its posts which have a small audience, but should have great impact on the title of this thread :

First of all, one of the most important analysis of the famous WTC basement explosions by NK-44 at the Loose Change Forum :

The Basement Explosions. (and other floors)
z10.invisionfree.com...

It shows a tremendous effort from "NK-44" and "chopoz", and it will take you about 3 to 6 hours to read the 5 pages, and much more when you get really interested, and follow all the links and read them too, and so on for their links again.
I am reading this master piece and its links for several weeks already.
It is the best example of a laborious work which should trigger a new 9/11 investigation.

And it clearly refutes all the "jet-fuel in elevator shafts explosions" posters in this thread.

Btw, all machine rooms of all elevator shafts were shielded with top-off caps with only a small square foot smoke venting grid in them. And these caps were 3 feet above all the floor levels.
So, no chance in hell that jet fuel could have streamed inside one of the severed shafts high up at impact points, and then reach those shafts bottoms at f.ex. floor 42, and then stream out of the doors there and as they propose, stream then in the next lower serving floors shafts.

Utterly impossible, the top caps from the lower shafts stood 1 meter high, exactly to stop water or other fluids to penetrate in lower shafts.
(There were three levels of shafts, from top to bottom., never saw fluid jump up 1 meter)

And you all should read that link I give you, and you will find that the only two top to bottom maintenance elevator shafts had cars in them, equipped with mechanical safety breaks, which came in and functioned. They stopped.
And writing that an elevator car was exploding is plain ludicrous.

There were no elevator cars dropping down all the way to the Lobby level. The emergency safety brakes worked. They dropped no more than 10 to 12 floors. We have audio from NIST reports, from elevator mechanics, and elevator operators, a man and his wife, both operators in different ones, who explain this.

But, to keep it short for now, just read the link.
And thou shall know the truth.

PS: A shaft with an elevator car in it, will not function as a facilitator for a fuel-air explosive mixture of jet-fuel and air. Its like a piston in a cylinder. The piston will stop the ev. explosion power first, and then that power will build up and first destroy all the dry walls around the shafts, thus bleeding off in a millisecond all overpressure.

PS2: Even when it occurred, it would have blown out FIRST all the dry/wall plates surrounding all the elevator shafts.

Fricken impossible to blow an elevator car on its brakes, downwards without even blowing one dry wall out, higher up, first.

Most of you have very poor logical argumentation skill. You should hone it with practicing a better and deeper research trajectory.

This is an elevator diagram of a WTC Tower, so you can understand the construction of them, in three trajectory levels :



Lo and behold, did a search and found an excellent thread from True American, and we share the same opinion, that Loose Change forum thread is a masterpiece :

Title: A Thread That Proves The "Fireballs Down the Elevators" Impossible?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 16/4/10 by LaBTop]

reply to post by LaBTop


thank you for your link and that is a very good thread. My question to you then, if that is how you feel, what caused the explosion that damaged the woman mentioned in my thread? I am just curious.

reply to post by LaBTop


Apparently missed this part which describes configuration of elevators at
WTC

There was a freight elevator which ran entire lenght of building
and 2 high speed passenger elevators from basement to 106/107 floors

sites.google.com...