##ATTENTION ALL 9/11 POSTERS- FORUM REJUVENATION##

Click here to learn more about this warning.

Thank You Thank You. I was beginning to despair of finding a mature intellectual discussion, without all the derailing and personal attacks.

"Why not just put them on ignore and move on with your life?"

This is probably the best suggestion to come out of this thread. The Ignore Button really is your best friend. It improves the quality of this site exponentially.

And for those of you who are afraid you may be missing something important by using Ignore, fear not. The only thing you are missing out on is wasting your valuable time sifting through redundant drivel.

Personally I'm glad the mods have laid down the wood. I'm not particularly into the truth movement, but I can't count the times I've started to type a post or reply and just hit "delete" because I felt it just wasn't worth it. To many trolls, too much baiting. It's almost like 9/11 has become it's own religion complete with zealots and witch burning (er, flaming I should say). Cheers!

[edit on 14-3-2010 by Legion2112]

The Mirror Test

I'm kind of surprised we're not seeing more of the "free speach" routine at this point. You know, where people insist they have the right to post anything they want and nobody can stop them. I suppose it may be more of a seasonal phenomenon, or I'm just behind the times.

Of course that would not be nearly as nostalgia-fueling as old chestnuts like we're out to suppress the truth or working for The Government or whatnot, but still.

It's rather ironic, I suppose (though hardly unexpected), to see so much controversy arise over so fundamental and universal a principle as courteous discussion.

But perhaps more than anything, it's incredibly revealing.

I am staying out of the 911 forums.

I know that I can get heated when I debate, calling out logical fallacies and what not, but the entire experience is just not worth it anymore.

For all those who seek to deny ignorance, best of luck under the new T & C.
You will need lots of patience and the ability to "kill them with kindness".

While I don't think that I committed any flagrant violations in the past, I have, on more than one occasion, pointed out what I see as irrational behavior and that is just not a good idea...
And would more than likely get a warning or a dismissal.

So that being said, don't do as I do. Do as I say.


Excellent work admins. I hope that you are able to maintain a modicum of control over the threads.

Happy to see the change. While I've been a lurker for many many years, I decided to try contributing. I've been unwilling to weigh in on the thread, as it was not much more than a shouting match. I understand why people are upset, and I think that a good number of those who start things are sent in to start things, but a lack of civility leads to a lack of civilization.

"I'm kind of surprised we're not seeing more of the "free speach" routine at this point. You know, where people insist they have the right to post anything they want and nobody can stop them."

My suggestion to those people is design a website, pay for a domain name and web host and then go and post to your heart's content. Free speech is one thing. Flushing an entire online community down the toilet with juvenile and pointless rants is another thing all together.

"It's rather ironic, I suppose (though hardly unexpected), to see so much controversy arise over so fundamental and universal a principle as courteous discussion."

Plain and simple, the individuals who do not support courteous discussion either have an agenda or do not have the necessary skills to post in a public forum. Either way, the site is better off without them.

It is advantageous for all in the long run to have a small handful of quality writers posting, instead of a large number of morons. Quality always wins out over quantity, especially in an age dominated with mindless superficial nonsense.

[edit on 14-3-2010 by SphinxMontreal]

Originally posted by Josephus23
best of luck under the new T & C.

Nothing new though. Just a heightened sense of proactive enforcement. Many forums are self-policing and member alerts are sufficient to keep them on track. The 9/11 forum lately has reverted back to a place we don't want it to be, so we're taking some action to get it back on track.

Member alerts are still more than welcome. And certainly preferential to adding more problems onto an existing problem.

The T&Cs are same as they ever were: remain on-topic, be civil, no personal attacks.

reply to post by Josephus23


Calling out a logical fallacy is what we're here for. Feel free to do so. Get heated if you wish...I do. But if I can do it, someone who uses the phrase "logical fallacy" in a sentence, can surely do it .

We're not saying you can't get heated. It's a given that that is going to happen, but civility is required. Most have no problem with that. Those that do? Well...they're on notice.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal

Gads you're SO right.I had a herd of the A-fore referred to members of our little family on iggie and on a whim took 'em off just for a look see.Ha Ha Ha love that jumping cat,bye bye now,so long,'SLAM!!!'

But for this method to show real power we have to see it's not just a REACTION but a pro active stratagem and all do it.It's the olde fashioned 'shunning' method and works really well,but only if universally practiced,say by the Elders.But obviously VOLUNTARY.

'Ignore' seems to be the opposite of ''deny ignorance'' so it doesn't sit too well with my little sensibilities.Shun is so much more historical.If we are so sure it was a treasonous act and etc up to and including the 'shills',then ''Why Not?"

reply to post by yeahright


Thanks for the correction.

I suppose that I got so used to the amount of ad hominems that I perceived the new enforcement of the T & Cs to be new T & Cs.

Once again.
The debate needs to be on a civil level, and I am glad that you folks are stepping up to bat.

I very rarely visit the 9/11 forum and never post there, because since I have been a member that forum has been garbage.

The problem does not seem to me to be one that will be fixed by strictly enforcing respectful debate. The discussion is played out. Each side knows exactly what the other one has to say, and they remain unconvinced. How many times can we reinterpret the same data?

This is not an issue like ethics or politics - it is not a matter of opinion - it is a matter of fact. There is some specific, factual, objective set of events that took place on and leading up to 9/11. Yet, we are in possession of all of the evidence that is availible and, collectively, we cannot come to a consensus.

There are virtually no substantive developments in the field. A rare exception is the Danish study which reports evidence of nano-thermite in the rubble. Occasionally, high profile groups or individuals will take a stance against the OS. This is not evidence of anyhing. These people have just developed an opinion. It does not make any side "more right" just because someone well known agrees with them. The truth of the matter is uneffected by the number of artchitects and engineers that take one side or the other.

Once all of the evidence has been presented, and all of its logical implications have been considered, and still two competing theories remain, there is little to be done without more evidence. Clearly, the evidence does not favor one side enough for there to be a general consensus - otherwise there would be a general consensus. We are at a point of impasse as long as no new evidence(not the kind where so and so takes a side based on existing evidence) is made availible.

What can be expected of people who continue to engage in this discussion, when there is nothing more to be said given the availible data? I think the answer to this is self-evident. Look at the content of the forum in question. Garbage.

I think that general discussion should be halted entirely if our objective is to filter out trivial contributions. New data only, and then specific discussion of that new data and how it fits into the existing body of evidence!

If you have any concern whatsoever for the value of this discusson board, do not turn this thread itself in a debate about what happened on 9/11. If you propose that this post is a troll, or that I am not interesting in the truth of the matter, you do not know what those words mean. No new truths have come out of this board in a long time. Think about that. The problem is systemic, and the issue of respect in the debate is only tangentially related, though it is a worthwhile pursuit under any circumstances. It just isn't the cure in this case, because lack of civilized discussion is only a symptom of the problem, not the cause.


[edit on 3/14/10 by OnceReturned]

[edit on 3/14/10 by OnceReturned]

Great stuff...

Every now and then you have to cut down the dead wood to make way for the new..

Posting in any forum can be quite daunting, especially for new members. I remember when I joined ATS, it took me months to pluck up the courage to begin posting. There are some serious brains in this place.

Discussing 911 is a very serious topic and should be looked upon as a major undertaking. Just getting your head around the vast amount of information can take a long time for those who are new to the topic.

There are some things we have to be aware of...

1. Every time "name calling" begins, you have no idea who the name caller is. It could be anyone. From a youngster who just loves trouble, to someone who believes the 'other' side of the story or it may even be an agent of some description who is here solely to upset the topic discussion in order to maintain the cover.

2. Why, oh why would you want to lose your ability to enter and use ATS?
This place is a mine of information. Recent events have shown just how much of a deeply involved community this is. I am so fond of many of the members, even if we don't all see eye to eye in a topic, we may get on like a wild, raging, happy party in mutter or other forms of communication.

3. It is a privelege and an honour to be a part of ATS. Membership is easily gained, respect is earnt and worked for.

I have followed a lot of the information on 911 right from the event itself. It has been a huge rollercoaster ride for millions of people around the globe and many are still dying due to this event.

Not only must we remember where we are and why we are on ATS, we must also keep alive the spirit of discovering the truth and denying ignorance, learn to be tolerant and keep a level head in order for us to uncover, or assist in, the truth behind this world changing event.

Yes, it is world changing as it has affected each and every one of us in ways we are yet to discover.

Keep your head, hold your tongue and we can, together, get to the bottom line. ATS may even be the place where a world changing discovery is made that solves the issues regarding 911... And we would all love to see that happen.

Mods, thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into ATS. I, for one, am always thinking of the hours you lot put into this site. I applaud you all.

reply to post by intrepid


I'm sort of sick of the "disinfo" label. It doesn't matter if they are disinfo agents or not because you still have to stick to the facts when arguing with them. If they have posted something off topic, don't reply. Rather, use the alert button and if the post is off-topic it will be deleted and marked "off-topic".

I signed up last year and have posted all of 11 times, mainly because of rampant trolling that made me hesitant to join the discussion. This is long overdue and I hope it spills over into other forums on the site that could use a clean up.

All the best ATS!

reply to post by OnceReturned


That was a superb comment, in my humble opinion.

If I was really paranoid, which I am....

Not.

Then I would probably say that is how TPTB want it.

Cheers folks.

reply to post by OnceReturned

Once all of the evidence has been presented, and all of its logical implications have been considered, and still two competing theories remain, there is little to be done without more evidence.

Unless some of the evidence has been overlooked. How many times have you heard of LEO's waiting for new evidence and then one of them find a piece of evidence that was overlooked. IMO, a civil forum has more of a chance of producing overlooked evidence rather than one that turns into bickering about who is the biggest liar.

Of course the main problem is what you said

Each side knows exactly what the other one has to say, and they remain unconvinced.

This is basically saying that people are firm in their stance and are unwilling to change their stance no matter what evidence is provided. But, don't the other forums come down to the same thing?

Originally posted by benadrit
Happy to see the change. While I've been a lurker for many many years, I decided to try contributing. I've been unwilling to weigh in on the thread, as it was not much more than a shouting match.

I agree. I believe I have alot to lend to ATS, but I have not felt the desire to post my serious educated beliefs...due to the hostility as of lately. I appreciate the owners rejuvinating the awareness and enforcement of this rule. Thank You

reply to post by jam321

This is basically saying that people are firm in their stance and are unwilling to change their stance no matter what evidence is provided. But, don't the other forums come down to the same thing?

In all likelihood that's a correct assumption. However, hope does spring eternal...and a civil, as you correctly said, conversation will go along way towards giving that hope a chance to spring...

[edit on 3/14/2010 by seagull]