What is going on in Britain???

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

No i was being polite, i'll make it more plain, you are wrong, or at least you're painting things with to narrow a brush.

Actually your painting with a narrow brush. Your assuming that everyone has the drive, motivation and ability to pull out of poverty.

It's often nothing to do with patience. Some kids look at their situation, hate it and want to get out, the choice then comes down to individual character. Are you a hard worker, or like the easy route?

You just reiterated my point, its all down to the individual character. Some have it, most don't.

Yes they give in and they are therefore pathetic. This society gives people every opportunity and you just have to grab it. Anyone, from the most deprived area can work their arse off and get out of it and some people do that. They prove it can be done and so the others have no excuse. This doesn't mean everyone can be a brain surgeon, but there are jobs to meet every skill set.

Easy there. Just because someone can't pull out of the rut doesn't mean they are pathetic.

And you're right, some people do work themselves out of the rut, but the system we live in is designed to keep people in poverty. You can only have an upper and middle class if there are poor people as well.

There is only so much wealth in the world and if everyone in poverty managed to pull themselves out the economy would crumble. Its like a pizza, if you want more slices of pizza each slice has to be smaller. So for everyone that pulls themselves out of poverty (gets their slice of pizza) it makes it harder for others to do the same, cause now the size of the available slices is smaller. Its called inflation.

And like I said before, there is a job for every skill set but there still isn't a job for everyone.

I know you can argue that we can get the economy together and make poverty almost non existent, thats just gonna make things worse somewhere else in the world. Again, the pizza slices get smaller. If we start taking bigger pieces that leaves less pizza for everyone else.

What else are we supposed to do? Every opportunity is afforded, job centres even offer training and the government offers funding for adult education! What else would you suggest? We can only excuse behavior to a certain degree.

Its not about excusing behavior, its about accepting the reality of the situation.

I don't really have anything to suggest as I'm no politician or social analyst. All I can say is that you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I don't know where the round peg is or how to get out the square peg that you've been trying to hammer into this round whole. All I can do is say that peg doesn't fit that hole.

Originally posted by fuserleer
Im a Brit too and this country has gone to hell, Ive been saying it for years and years.

I used to be proud to be from Great Britain, United Kingdom...I used to be proud when on business or holiday abroad and when people asked where I was from, I would tell them and they would nod in respect.

Now Im NOT proud one bit to say Im from Britain, its not Great anymore, and theres nothing United about it or any Kingdom to speak of. People dont nod in respect anymore either, its more a look of pity to be honest.

Whatever happened to the nation that were go-getters, ambitious and pushing the frontier in many industries, wheres it all gone, and WHY has it gone?

Its this damn government, Labour, which is the right name for them, they "Labour" you into the ground and you get JACK in return! The Labour government in the 70s wasnt any better, with 80% higher tax brackets.

Tax the rich tax the high earners they cry....thats ludicrous! Its the rich and highly skilled, highly paid that keep the country moving in a forward direction, making progress....if someones getting massivley taxed and getting nothing in return, you are going to get rather frustrated and not bother!

Example, if your wife was a "housewife" and was spending 50% of your income on crap, yet she didnt look after the kids, clean up, get the dinner on after you'd been out earning 12 hours a day 7 days a week, and on top of that didnt look after your male "needs" (and vise-verse for women with house husbands) youd get pretty sick of it in no time at all!

On top of that the guys in power have no balls at all!! How many times have we heard bold promises from both Blair and Brown that they are going to "take a stand and sort this mess out!". Only for some "authority" from Europe or the State to come over and these guys instantly crumble!! Everytime these guys are on TV, they look about as authoritive as a wet lettuce! Pathetic!

When Mrs.Thatcher said "IM GOING TO SORT THIS OUT!" it was 90% of the time, it might not of been a subtle approach, but it got sorted!

Then theres all the stupid laws and legislation that have been brought in that do nothing but hinder the innocent.

And dont even get me started on the lastest stupid idea around insurance and taxes on dogs!!

If this is not a spoof aimed at satirising a comment from the Daily Mail site, then it's codswallop and the most blinkered, partisan nonsense I've seen from a British post for a long time.

The problem with British industry is there are no British industries and the problem with a lack of entrepreneurs is because there's no environment for them to succeed in anyway, because there's no industry to serve as an environment.

Why is the case? One of the big reasons is, ironically, the woman that you claimed sorted everything out and her ilk.

Your delusion about the "the rich and highly skilled, highly paid that keep the country moving in a forward direction, making progress...." highlights so much that is wrong with your conclusions. The 'rich and highly skilled, highly paid' thought it was "moving forward" and "making progress" with privatisation and privatisation has subsequently lead to manufacturing and, latterly, service industries being moved out of this country greatly reducing not only the amount of jobs in this country but even the kinds of jobs in this country.

It's this "moving forward" and "making progress" that allowed share-holders to only opt for short term rewards and money in their pockets then rather than now - you know, now, like the present that you're complaining about?

One of the reasons why we're in such massive # now is because "the rich and highly skilled, highly paid that keep the country moving in a forward direction, making progress...." in the banking and finance sectors are taking the piss. They're continuing to reap rewards that they're not actually worthy of, rewards for disasters that are bordering on criminal. They played such a massive part in all this mess and yet we, the people left waist-high in their #, have to keep on listening to them. And why? Because of idiotic claims such as yours that perpetuate this idea that should listen to them because they're rich and apparently highly skilled. They're only rich because we allow them to be and they're obviously not highly skilled (other than in corruption and bull#) or else we wouldn't be in this mess.

That's not just banking and finance but all the other blood suckers that sold out this country long before New Labour came to power.

I'd have no compunction whatsoever in hanging these bastards myself.

[edit on 20-3-2010 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by Merriman Weir

I'd have no compunction whatsoever in hanging these bastards myself.

If you're not too busy...there's a small queue of politicians to hanged with these guys too. Equally guilty and interchangeable.

If you're too busy...apparently if you give them enough rope, they'll hang themselves. If only...

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

I'd have no compunction whatsoever in hanging these bastards myself.

If you're not too busy...there's a small queue of politicians to hanged with these guys too. Equally guilty and interchangeable.

If you're too busy...apparently if you give them enough rope, they'll hang themselves. If only...

Not only is there a queue of politicians that deserve this, I'd say it was a cross-party rope dance that was needed as complicity is found on both sides of both Houses. Partisan comments like fuseleer's above really have no standing. It's the overall political culture that's to blame rather than as the idea of a left and right doesn't really work any more: the big three parties (or maybe 2 and a half parties) are centrist parties all fighting for the same ground, the same voters, the same backhanders from industries and corporations and so on.

Every citizen to have personal webpage

www.telegraph.co.uk...

New Labour & Gordon Brown will never pass up an opportunity to collect information on every citizen in Britain. I won't even mention the Government's poor record of handling personal data. There's also the fact that not everyone in this country has a computer or internet access. Which just goes to show what a bunch of idiots we truly have for a government. Another well thought out plan. This will no doubt end up being another expensive disaster. But what's new. I won't be signing up.

[edit on 21-3-2010 by kindred]

reply to post by kindred


What a resourse for hackers/intel agencies THAT would be...
EVERYONES Info ALL in one place.

Well,screw that-I will not be assimilated.


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Also noticed this thread,which adds to the whole "What is going on in Britain" theme:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Fancy £3000 ?

All you have to do is NOT rear pigs!!!
I don't,so wheres my £3000,writes a concerned farmer...

reply to post by Silcone Synapse

What a resourse for hackers/intel agencies THAT would be...
EVERYONES Info ALL in one place.

Exactly, it's crazy to even consider it. Thanks for the link. That letter is hilarious. I would love £3000, so where do I sign up. lol Idiocy is truly running rampant through the EU and our own government. What planet are they living on.

I’ve read the further post since my last post and decided I’d write what I’ve seen from my point of view that has lead to what Our Britain has become.
The year is 1977, Jubilee Year, I’m 9 years old, this year I was rushed to hospital for a Tonsillectomy. While in School a new kid joined, he turned out to be the new bully and beings as I was the tallest kid in school he made a B-line for me but he was caught by the yard teachers. He was given the “pump” and made to stand outside the headmaster’s office for the day. He didn’t put another foot wrong from that day on. The adult world didn’t interest me much but here are a few things that were in the news that year.

en.wikipedia.org...

Nothing seemed to change much until 1979, Tories were in (conservative Party) First Woman Prime Minister Maggie Thatcher (The Milk Snatcher ....She took the milk given to all pre 7 year old children, rich and poor which was given free every morning at school). The one thing I noticed was my parents weren’t happy. I was 11 my Father was a Manager at a local Aluminium Manufacturing firm, we were for all intense and purpose Upper Middle Class, that was until my parents became separated and eventually some years later Divorced..but at that time my father was only obliged to give money towards the family’s upkeep. It was a pitiful amount compared to what he was earning and my mother had spent many years bringing up his 9 children of which I was the last. The last job my mother had was in the war as a teenager making boots or waders, not sure what exactly, for the war effort. So 34 years later what could she do? Seemed that Maggie’s Britain didn’t have any policies or laws to help single parents and was hell bent on destroying the Unions and the Working Class to prevent any power the unions had in the previous Labour years. The mines now needed closing , it was cheaper for business to buy coal from abroad.” Sack the Miners it will save us money in the long run” , seemed to be the policy....The start of the ROT and the Decline of British Industry. No union to stop business from seeking cheaper suppliers and providers abroad, so work began to disappear along with manufacturing.

econ.economicshelp.org...
1979-1984.html
Privatisation came next

www.mirror.co.uk... -115875-21330205/

The abolition of Apprenticeships from 1979 to the new YTS in 1984 saw a drop in young people being trained from its original 33000 to a mere 11000.

Meanwhile I was sent to an Independent School which I found extremely difficult as I was Dyslexic and it wasn’t really recognised till many years later. We still had Corporal Punishment and bullying was a rare event and was swiftly dealt with. It was the Mod’s, Rockers and New Romantics and yes we had trouble; Fights and riots due to the political climate. No killing of kids by kids bar Children of the Corn LOL, no kids killing pensioners and no gangs of kids terrorising neighbourhoods. Adults killing adults yes but not on today’s scale.

Cont

It’s 1984 and I left school, I was an artist, carpenter and a wizard on the newly introduced computers. So I went to my careers office hoping to start a career or study in one of my obvious talents....they had nothing......other than a Wholesale Retail Accountancy Course YTS that lasted 1 year. College was out, my mum could not afford to pay for me while I studied so I had no choice. Maggie’s Britain JOKE. I joined the YTS. If I didn’t then I didn’t eat. I spent the whole year with 1 day a week in college and the rest being passed from pillar to post ...SLAVE LABOUR. The only highlight was a small section in class on computer programming of which the task was to create a programme to print and add up a bill, I did the task and continued to write a little 3d graphic adventure consisting of a corridor and a choice of doors, the tutor didn’t have a clue and took me aside to convince me to forget this course and try to enrol in a computer course at Tech but there was no way I could. I needed money and jobs were very thin on the ground back then so I finished the course. My final employer on the YTS had option to take me on full time but he didn’t , instead opting to get another Trainee from the YTS Slave Trade for another year. Why pay a fulltime employee wage when he could get a SLAVE for £25 pound a week. £10 of which was paid by the government.

So I was 17 turning 18 and all I had was a piece of paper to say ”yep I can weigh fruit and cut and sell carpet”. No jobs still, it’s 1985 and I’m put onto a Community Programme where I worked on a Canal Boat for the now Privatized Water Board. I also chopped trees for the local Duchess, another year wasted.
In Politics Maggie’s having another term. We won the Falklands War which kept her in power and allowed her next BAD idea which was to start selling all our assets; first to go BT (British Telecom) a promise for all to have a share in the company NOT TRUE. It was a way to make quick money and blow the consequences as they had more they could sell if they needed to. BP (British Petroleum) Water, Power, BA (British Airways), BL (British Leyland) along with the beloved Rover, Jaguar and BA (British Aerospace) now are all foreign owned and not of prime importance to the countries that now control them.

1987 Corporal Punishment was banned in state schools, later in privately run schools, followed closely by parents and guardians. At this point I noticed childrens change in attitude. How So?......by being part of a big family and watching my nephews and nieces growing up and watching them threaten their parents with the Social Services if they attempted any form of physical reprimand such as smacking. I could imagine that it also now took place in schools,” No More Discipline” the Bullies now go unchecked, the kids now ignore parental guidance, those that were once in check now persuade the ones on the fence that may have turned out ok to go to the Darkside for want of a better word. No one to teach them right from wrong. If they’re bad never mind it’s not like there’s any ramifications for their actions Free Reign.

1988 I found work in a printing factory and the boss put me onto an unofficial apprenticeship where I learnt all there was to know about Silk Screen Printing which although a good thing turned out to be pointless as the town I lived in was primarily a Brewery / Food Manufacturing Town. We had 1 print business and it went bust not long after I left. So I decided to go into the food industry as a TEMP in an AGENCY, yet ANOTHER STUPID IDEA of the Tory Party. As a Temp, pensions and social responsibility for retirement, redundancy and holiday pay were no longer a right. Wages were low still, but work was work so I took what I could.

Cont

Poll tax was brought into effect during my YTS years I was expected to pay £247 a year from my £25 pounds a week £1300 a year wage. This left me with £20 pounds to which I had to give my mother the whole sum for Rent she was being charged for me living in her council house. I worked an extra Saturday to make £10 pounds to buy food and clothes etc.
Thankfully after disputing the unfairness of the Poll Tax THE PEOPLE won and the poll tax was changed to Council tax and was worked out at PER HOUSE not PER PERSON. Still with no assets the Tory Government tried to squeeze out every ounce of cash from the working man while leaving the rich to enjoy their shares and their booming profits as they opted to leave Britain for cheap labour abroad TAX FREE.
In the 90’s I was married and in the news were headlines about old people being battered by kids and 1 of the first Kid killing Kid cases that shocked the world, not just murder but torture. This was merely a precursor for violence and breakdown of safety in the community. Police no longer commanded any respect nor did teachers or any other authority figure. DO the Math!!! The Bulger Killers were 10 years old, 6 years after Corporal Punishment was Abolished. A product of no Discipline they were part of the FIRST GENERATION of children being brought up without Corporal Punishment. Over the years it has just got worse with mentality to not treat the Disruptive child any differently to the well behaved ones. The latter having their education disrupted because teachers are refusing to teach their classes because they can’t control the disruptive children. I call this HEAD IN THE SAND or pretend the problem doesn’t exist. Another line we hear all too often is Blame The Parents, yet they cannot punish their children without fear of reprisal. Some parents (children of the 1987 law) who themselves were disruptive now teach their children their bad habits and are the prime culprits of any school discipline being impossible to achieve.
In 1991 John Major Back stabbed Thatcher for her job and wins the next general election. Thatcher was a mere sacrifice to sway voters in 92. Giving the Torries time to sell off yet more assets and leave the country in a mess which New Labour had to clean up when they took the helm in 97. I was finally working permanently in the food industry but having to have both me and my wife work to pay the bills and bring up my 2 daughters. I was expecting no more privatisation and a return to true socialist values, maybe buying back what we had lost and a return to the rates system. Yet it wasn’t to be, New Labour were simply Tories in a Labour guise. They continued with Privatisation, in fact there was no change only the luck of a little prosperity from 97 to 2007 which was FAKE, a smoke screen of prosperity through DEBT and social decay. This is Britain today and this is what’s going on.
Social and Political DECAY, even our politicians are corrupt.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

even in current news

news.bbc.co.uk...

our own Prime minister is a bully, which sends the wrong message to our kids about the pros of bullying others and cheating.
Makes me wonder?.......... BULLIED out or left of his own accord Mr T Blair?

news.bbc.co.uk...

I am not at a loss to the answer to our current state. It seems the lines between teaching right from wrong don’t exist, wrongs are ignored and swept under the carpet whilst the infrequent good deeds are highlighted in the hope to divert from the reality of social and governmental decay .

AS LONG AS THE WRONGS ARE NOT ADDRESSED OUR COUNTRY IS LOST.

reply to post by DreamerOracle


A different world brother.
Gone but not forgotten.

It really is amazing to look though a few newspapers from 20-30 years ago if anyone gets the chance.
Its like looking at another world.

Its already so different now,just imagine the newspapers(or brain chip updates)of 30 years from now.

"Stay in your homes-do not resist,there are no problems,failure to accept your medication will result in termination" says the small but highly weaponized government peacekeeper drones which patrol your neighborhood,on a 24hour basis.

"next vaccine update on tuesday,9am sharp."

"voting shortly after"


Be not afraid

Heres another one for the thread:

A boy of five was left stranded in a tree at school because of a bizarre health and safety policy - which banned teachers from helping him down. The mischievous pupil climbed the 20ft tree at the end of morning break and refused to come down.
But instead of helping him, staff followed guidelines and retreated inside the school building to ‘observe from a distance’ so the child would not get ‘distracted and fall’.
The boy was only rescued when passer-by Kim Barrett, 38, noticed the child and helped him down herself.
But instead of being thanked for her actions by the headteacher of the Manor School in Melksham, Wiltshire, she was reported to the police for trespassing.
Miss Barrett, who lives in Melksham with her six-year-old daughter who attends a different school, said she is ‘surprised’ and ‘shocked’ by the school's policy.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

UK a population of institutionalised fools.

reply to post by Muckster


Hi Mate, I totally agree with everything you say on this subject. Especially the fact that you "Would" punish your child with a smack if you "HAD To". I was brought up the same by a Sicilian father who was VERY strict but never actually laid a hand on me, my brother or my 2 sisters. I brought my daughter up the same way, and she knew as a last resort this was a weapon in the punishment closet. Gladly I never had to as she was so well behaved, I hardly ever had to do more than talk loudly to her.

The youth/gangs are out of control and the police do nothing. I have neighbours who have been threatened by these gangs, yet when they call the police they are told "We can't do anything until they commit a crime". Well let me tell you it IS a crime to threaten people. Imagine if I as an adult threatened to burn down another persons home/car. Do you think the police would not treat that seriously. I can assure you they can and do.

The big problem with the police is that they are totally disheartened by the do-gooders in the youth crime system. The police DID used to arrest youth for threatening behaviour etc but the legal system/social workers etc let the youth off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist and derided the police for filling the courts with such minor crimes. SO the police DON'T bother anymore.

I hate the fact that old people seem too scared to walk around at night. Or open their door to strangers, it is our responsibility to ensure the protection of the elderly/weak, as if we don't we are just as much to blame for the downfall of our society.

This country is getting so soft it almost makes me want to be sick. They (Govt etc) say we are trying to address youth crime, I would sort it hard and quick. On the youth' second serious offence they wouldn't go to prison to learn more about crime. I would put them in the hands of specially trained army training services. "National Service" would then ensue for 2-3 years, they would earn their keep and defend the countries elderly/disabled etc from people who are like they were before they entered training programmes.

For major drug related crimes (Crimes to Buy Drugs), I talked to a junkie family member recently and stated TPTB should drug test these criminals every 3 days and if they fail the test they get additional punishments added to their probation section of their criminal sentencing. That way the ones who don't give up Heroin/Crack could be monitored for up to 10 yrs until we know they are clean. If they don't like it how about 3 yrs National Service with regular drug testing etc.

I know it sounds hard, but we HAVE to be! The country has changed so much over the last 25 years and it is getting worse all the time. What do we do just let these scum take over from the majority of people who ARE honest and nice people?

Some great posts here.

I was an 80's kid so i guess i was brought up in the aftermath of a Tory government, when punks still walked the street and coppers were bastards. But it seemed neighbourhoods were friendlier and people weren't too bogged down with health and saferty bollocks (which is an insult to anyone with two brain cells really) - even the music seemed purer (now a lot of the mainstream music is diluted and quite negative and shallow).

My wages in the early 90's seemed to go further than they do now, but i also remember the struggles of trying to study at college whilst claiming benefits (as their was no way i could afford my rent without a job at the time) and the systematic dismissal of the institutionalised job centre - their attitude towards my want of an education.

Also everything is becoming commercialised and corporate, in the 80's we actually had butchers and bakers and corner shops, now it seems to be TESCO 24 hour outlets, which force towns and villages with any form of identity to be dissolved into commercialism.