Guns and Good Stuff

You seem to miss the point there.
99.9999% of us do NOT carry guns all the time. I have a permit to carry concealed but I almost never do. If anyone sees a gun on me I could be arrested (hence "concealed"). It's not an easy permit to acquire here. Most of the police I have talked to tell me that they trust pistol permit holders more than others because we are already screened by the FBI, ATF as well as state and local police departments.
The fact is that us "gun-nuts" are the most law abiding of any citizens and we have photo ID to prove it !

If you don't have the gun on you, then why do you even have it at all?
Just for when criminals come to your house?

As I stated much earlier in this thread.....I target shoot for recreation. In order for me to carry my gun to the range near where I live I need to have a permit. There are RARE occasions that I need to go into inner city neighborhoods and feel more secure having the capability of taking on three or more assailants at once.
Other than those rare times I don't have much need to carry a gun. I live in a VERY low crime rate area except for the occasional home intrusion or robbery. In the case of either of those I would most likely use a bladed weapon for home defense unless against multiple intruders.

I also shoot for recreation. But I also hunt (some, not a lot).

After my time in the infantry, I found guns and shooting guns to be a fine hobby and a good therapy.

Point is, is that we enjoy guns and would prefer to have them because we, the people, are the power in this country (supposedly), and if it ever comes to pass that we are not, then we still wield power of our own.

Originally posted by Jakko
If you don't have the gun on you, then why do you even have it at all?
Just for when criminals come to your house?

YES! There you go! For self defense! And as stated a hundred times, practice shooting and hunting. But for when the criminal comes to my house, I can make sure he doesn't leave walking, or breathing. Never happened yet, but it could! Better safe than dead.

Jakko, criminals and firearms are not that huge an issue in this country. As I suggested, stop reading anti-gun propaganda.

Regardless, where do most rapists get their penises? The prostitute, where does she get her vagina? Are those "tools" make them bad, or is it their hearts that are severely lacking?

Ah, TC, my point in case.

Technically, jakko, having a penis makes you a potential rapist. In order to protect all potential rape victims from the possibility that your penis and your testoterone can maek you a rapist.....

Lets cut your penis off. Its a deadly weapon. It can be used to harm people. Its can even be a terrorist weapon, because you can spread deadly biological weapons with it. You can harm children with it. More children throught the world are irreversibly kileld or maimed by sexual violence, men using thier penises for ill.

Because the Penis is such a dangerous piece of equipment, we must call for international legislation to have every penis on the planet removed. You dont need it to live, after all, and its such a threat........

Do you see my point now Jakko? Im sure you say, "well, id never rape or harm anyone with my penis". But according to your logic, having a deadly weapon makes society not safe for anyone. it doesnt matter if YOU yourself are not a violent person. The fact that you posses a penis, which causes so much death and misery in the world, is grounds by your own logic that penises should be removed.

I own guns. I have never shot anyone. Why do I own guns?

For one, Im a veteran, I agree, shooting is very theraputic. i shoot at paper targets at proper gun ranges. Its a sport and hobby that sharpens hand to eye coordination, its relaxing to the mind, and keeps one sharp. I also posses guns because of self defense reasons. females are higher risk targets for criminals, which are mostly men, so having a nice cold iron riding my hip gives me a sense of security against potential agressors, which are many.

So far, havent shot a single person, and i really dont plan to.

Until someone possesing a penis with less than noble intentions towards me plans on using his deadly weapon first.

Skadi, we have to take your parts away to, without them we don't need to worry about you becoming a prostitute and spreading disease. Then take away everyone's hands so they can't use guns, pillows, knives, cars, so forth. Then take away all feet cause some people can kick your skull in or kick your nose cartilage into your brain. Then take away all foreheads cause I could do some damage with a good strong headbutt. I like what the All Mighty Thomas Crowne said, stop reading anti-gun propaganda.

YOU AIN'T TAKIN MY "PARTS" AWAY



It's a valid point, one I've heard many times, but it's still funny thinking about what would happen if people did start seeing it that way.

I guess I should of elaborated on what I said before.
But first I'm going to speculate that you put all your faith and trust in your government ... fine.

American founding fathers were under British rule, which back then was pretty hardcore and evil kings. Who would want to live under such tyranny?
So they high tailed it out of there and landed here in the U.S

Made all these great rules for citizens in case the government tries to get higher then them.

So to keep your guns was very important to them.



People here understand their frame of mind, and seen it happen around the word when guns are banned from the people. So in this sense it gives people pride and a sense of security. At least for me, I'm proud to be part of that history and proud to be smart enough to know what happens when you take guns away from the people, and it makes me proud to know other people here understand this as well.
The days they ban guns here is the day I won't feel secure and proud anymore...
It's just a frame of mind , if you want to put all your faith and trust in your government fine, but don't try and tell people that is the other way. Most people in politics don't even understand or know anything about everyday people, their spoiled and want to control all for the wrong reasons.

Well then. I think we kinda beat this discussion to death. Wait, since Jakko will reply, we kinda SHOT this discussion to death, lol. But we all said the same thing, haven't we? In America guns are not that big of a problem. Most of know how to use a gun, and most deaths are usually accidents. For the deaths from a crime, the gun is almost always gotten illegeally, meaning that taking away a citizens gun does nothing but leave them defenseless. And again, England, Australia, all the other countries that ban guns have a higher crime rate that keeps on rising. While we, the Americans have a steady if not falling crime rate.

I agree with everyone here that say people kill people not guns. However, a gun doesn't require much thought to be fired. In an instant it is done. It can be fired from a safe distance whereas, a knife or another object would require the person to approach the person with the possibility of being thwarted or overpowered.

The pillow thing has to be the most rediculous camparison though. Like I said, when you are in that moment of possibly killing someone, you can do it with a gun at a distance in a split second. However, if you use a pillow, you must first get the person in position, then place the pillow over their face. Keep in mind that this process will take probably a minute to complete. In that time, you can change your mind, be overpowered by the person, or any number of things.

I am definitely not for gun control or anything like that. All I am saying is that with a gun, it a split second decision that can not be undone. Taking guns away or restricting them from law abiding citizens is not the answer either. The criminals will still be able to get them.

I am not sure why the US has so many guns deaths, but there are around 15,000/year. Now you have to admit, that is a lot. I know that other countries have a lot of guns and don't have this problem.

Why are there some many gun murders in the US every year? Do we live in a more violent society? I don't know why there are, but the facts speak for themselves. Should we blame bowling like Michael Moore did in his flick?

Again, I am not for gun control, I own a pistol that I keep in my home for protection of my wife and 3 children.

Just my lousy 2 cents worth.

15,000 deaths a year? That's all? Man, with the way Jakko and other anti gun people go on about guns one would think it was that many a hour. People, over 200million people live in America. 15,000, that is less than .0075% of the population a year. How many die in Australia a year due to guns? How many die in England due to guns? Sad to say more than 20,000 a year in Australia and more than 27,000 a year in England! More deaths for a smaller population with a gun ban! Hahahahahahaha, and may I add, HA! America is great, we have guns and we can defend ourselves in case the republicans try to take over. England? Australia? A 100 year old man could take over with a BB gun.

Whoops! My stats are WAY off. Here are the actual numbers. Still a lot.

www.helpnetwork.org...

Looks like it is about 40,000. Don't know what the hell I was thinking.

JTL, do have stats or a link to back up those numbers for Australia and England? I don't think they are accurate, but I could be wrong as I just was.

Edit: James your stats are so far off, I can't even imagine where you got them from. In 1999, the UK had 62 murders by firearms, 62!. In 2000, Australia had 59. Dude, you should really research before you start throwing numbers around like that, it makes you WAY less credible. Oh BTW, these stats were taken from here for the UK and here for Australia. Scroll down until you see the stat: murders with firearms.

And if you want to talk murders per capita, well you are wrong there as well as shown here

2nd edit: spelling

[edit on 6-25-2004 by nyarlathotep]





[edit on 6-26-2004 by nyarlathotep]

I kind of promised myself to stay away from this topic, but man, the ignorance is overwhelming.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
But we all said the same thing, haven't we?

That's an understatement.

In America guns are not that big of a problem.

Yes, and apes can fly.

Most of know how to use a gun, and most deaths are usually accidents.

The most-usually combo surely gives a nice twist to your statement.
And no, "most" deaths are not "usually" accidents.

For the deaths from a crime, the gun is almost always gotten illegeally, meaning that taking away a citizens gun does nothing but leave them defenseless.

Of course when you would take away guns, you would have to start with taking away illegal guns. The only problem is that this is quite complicated if you let people keep their legal guns.

And again, England, Australia, all the other countries that ban guns have a higher crime rate that keeps on rising. While we, the Americans have a steady if not falling crime rate.

What an ignorant statement.
"all the other countries", who is that?
Steady if not falling... yeah right.
You're comparing the wrong countries with eachother as I allready explained.
Not that I expect you to read my posts fully, I stopped doing that a long time ago.

[edit on 26-6-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by James the Lesser
How many die in Australia a year due to guns? How many die in England due to guns?

Less than in the USA, as the statistics show.

Sad to say more than 20,000 a year in Australia and more than 27,000 a year in England!

You're either on crack, or you have a really hard time understanding statistics.

More deaths for a smaller population with a gun ban! Hahahahahahaha, and may I add, HA!

I don't know what to say, is there any reply that fits such madness?
Well at least your insane delusions are bringing you joy and laughter.

America is great, we have guns and we can defend ourselves in case the republicans try to take over. England? Australia? A 100 year old man could take over with a BB gun.

If the rest of America is as "great" as you are in understanding statistics, reading other peoples posts, posting without repeating and spamming the entire ATS community because you can't handle an arguement alone, I'm happy I'm not part of it.
But I guess you're just an exception, most Americans are fortunately not like that.

nyarla, good links, finally some objective links in this discussion.
I doubt that the violence in the US is result of something cultural, as the cultural differences within the US are allready too big to be "blamed" for widespread violence like that.

[edit on 26-6-2004 by Jakko]

Thanks Jakko. Notice how Jamesthelesser says that between Australia and the UK there are 47,000 deaths by guns each year. With the link I provided it is 121 between the two. Talk about a gross misstatement of facts! I think that James has proved himself to be ignorant, possibly incompetent and childish. Oh well. Hey James, open mouth, insert foot.



[edit on 6-26-2004 by nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Jakko
nyarla, good links, finally some objective links in this discussion.
I doubt that the violence in the US is result of something cultural, as the cultural differences within the US are allready too big to be "blamed" for widespread violence like that.

[edit on 26-6-2004 by Jakko]

I can tell you straight up and down that culture has a big part to play in the violence in this country.

It seems that struggle for equal rights in this country has created a sort of cuture of hardship and strife. Since those days, I'd say that struggle has on the whole, gone down. But the children of these folks have that anger in them but have become disenfranchised because there is really no rallying banner as an outlet.

It's in this that I see the current divide about the war happening and the fury that has grown from it seemingly overnight. I know this seems like a boiled down explination, but it could take a myriad of books to look at the social dynamic of America and it's derivatives.

I know there is a culture of guns in this country, and not all of it is good, but we have choosen to define ourselves by the rights we allow ourselves to have. I just don't think that banning guns is the way to solve our problems, and would fundamentally change this country in a way most don't want.

Anyway, I just don't appreciate the looking down your nose at us thinking you have the "enlightened" way.

I am not looking down at anyone, but I hope you'll understand that any opinion I have, is the "enlightened" way according to me.
Or else it would not be my opinion.

I realize that I probably don't know enough about the USA to have it all right, but that does not mean that the current way your administration deals with guns is the best way.